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39 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

selective reading

 

 

It seems kind of ironic you would say this given that you ignore @dew's counterexample to your argument and some of my statements regarding comparable skill level at sporting events (yes, even at the Olympics). The skill floor for the Olympics is ridiculously high, but claiming that the Olympic's "extreme level of competition that it actually loses all aspect of skill" holds little to no water.

 

Also, saying "the only thing that doesn't come down to genetics is just purely having a shittier training thing" implies a potential gap in skill, contradicting your other statement. You've conveniently disguised a skill gap (in a sporting event... gasp!) as "shittier training". 

 

Simply put, if everyone got equal training, perhaps then it would come down to genetics. However, a disparity in training implies in a disparity in skill, and the training disparity exists, as you've acknowledged.

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7 minutes ago, SGS Man said:

It seems kind of ironic you would say this given that you ignore @dew's counterexample to your argument and some of my statements regarding comparable skill level at sporting events (yes, even at the Olympics).

But Decay already pointed out why, even if he did it under the pretense mocking me because he slid into another dimension and saw that dimension's version of me actually call the Olympics a no-skill contest. See, short of not being able to see the targets period ( and even that's debatable ), vision isn't the deciding factor in precision with archery. It doesn't matter if you have such telescopic vision that you can pick out the various terrain features of Pluto from Earth - if your arms can't keep steady or pull the bowstring back enough to launch the arrow far enough, there's no way you're hitting a bullseye.

 

Was he more skilled than his opponents? Yeah, certainly. Was that why he won? Honestly, I doubt it, it just seems like that was how he was able to compete in the first place. In the end, either he was just better suited for archery than the competition, or ...

 

7 minutes ago, SGS Man said:

Also, saying "the only thing that doesn't come down to genetics is just purely having a shittier training thing" implies a potential gap in skill, contradicting your other statement. You've conveniently disguised a skill gap (in a sporting event... gasp!) as "shittier training". 

 

Simply put, if everyone got equal training, perhaps then it would come down to genetics. However, a disparity in training implies in a disparity in skill, and the training disparity exists, as you've acknowledged.

Not ... really? I mean, I guess that's not genetics, but no amount of skill will be able to overcome a bad coach or having no access to good training facilities or knowledge of good training methods. It still comes down to luck - in this case, either where you're born or how well what life you're born into allows you to travel - that determines how well you're able to train.

 

I mean, sure, there's devotion and stuff, but that's affected heavily by genetics and one's life as well, what with stuff like executive dysfunction. If I'm really to believe that these are the best of the best, then there's waaaaay too many factors that seem far more important than a teeny difference in skill in what determines who takes home the gold.

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25 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

But Decay already pointed out why, even if he did it under the pretense mocking me because he slid into another dimension and saw that dimension's version of me actually call the Olympics a no-skill contest.

Unlike Edd, I don't snort concrete dust to achieve existence in an alternate reality. I understand what you are trying to say, I just think it's a really stupid argument that comes straight from the oppression Olympics.

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The thing to take away from dew's example is that even if you are somehow "impaired", for lack of a better term, and thus can't excel at one discipline, it doesn't mean there is no discipline you can excel at at all, and that applies to olympic sports as much as it applies to real life.

 

I like to think that people who are put at what some may call "genetical disadvantage", find ways to deal with that, and compensate for it. Look at me, I'm only 152cm small, but my ego is tall enough to make up for the "lack of size". Blind people, even not blind from birth, manage to use their remaining senses to find their way around as best they can.

 

I mean, good lord, you don't make it to the olympics if you don't fucking put in the required time, do the training you need to do, maintain your discipline for long enough, and most certainly you don't win, ever, if you're not cool-headed enough to deal with the pressure that comes with competition on such a level. The mere idea that genetics are the most important factor in all of this is absurd when there are so many other things involved. Not to mention how much the idea devalues individual efforts and achievements (And yes, this has a distinct scent of neo-marxism to it, sorry). I mean this whole genetics idea, if blown entirely out of proportion, would basically borderline racism, because some ethnicities tend to grow taller than others, giving them an advantage in quite a few disciplines, for example. And maybe, when you actually push that thought as far as I did here, you may come to realize how absurd it actually is.

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That guy's 'dead', also it was their opinion, and thus this is why I try to not personify everything I like because I know there's going to be someone out there who hates what I'm into and therefore will seem like they do not approve of my existence.

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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

stuff

why do so many people act like i said the olympics didn't require incredible amounts of skill

 

i flat-out said that it's the entry requirement the skill part of the olympics is getting there in the first place

 

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I mean this whole genetics idea, if blown entirely out of proportion, would basically borderline racism, because some ethnicities tend to grow taller than others, giving them an advantage in quite a few disciplines, for example. And maybe, when you actually push that thought as far as I did here, you may come to realize how absurd it actually is.

The thing is, it's not racism, because race has nothing to do with it as it's far, far, far too board of a category to have anything more than a glance at the concept. Any sectioning done would require some really ridiculously precise "genetic maps" that track the flow of particular genes and stuff like that, which ... I mean, between the fact that gene inheritance is pretty damn random and almost all genetic traits stem from not single genes but combinations of genes, the whole thing becomes pretty infeasible before you even factor in mutation and chimerae and stuff like.

 

And it's not like any of this is relevant for like 99% of life, or even 99% of people - Olympic sports are extremely intense, extremely short events where it only matters how you're built for a particular task, and nothing else. Doing the shotput? Being good at tennis is completely irrelevant. Doing the 1500m freestyle? Doesn't matter in the slightest if you have a knack for numbers.

 

Hell, there's a bunch of different categories for what amounts to running just to show how specialized all these genetic advantages are. Like, just take to mind how different people doing the 100m dash and the 10000m dash are built - again, both events where all that's being done is running.

 

It's the sort of thing where anyone who puts any merit beyond Olympic results and similar things into what I'm saying probably completely failed the genetic lottery and didn't develop a brain. And died in the womb. I mean, like I've said countless times, you have to get extremely skilled before these genetic advantages are a major factor - it's just when you've reached that point, skill can't exactly overcome those advantages.

 

Basically, if you want to value your personal achievements, aim for reaching the Olympics in the first place, not actually placing first place. Then leer at people who try to devalue this because they have no concept of humans having physical limits that they can't overcome without literally breaking the rules of the Olympics in the first place.

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26 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

why do so many people act like i said the olympics didn't require incredible amounts of skill

 

i flat-out said that it's the entry requirement the skill part of the olympics is getting there in the first place

Too lazy to do the "cross page quoting" here, but in essence your statement implies that as soon as people compete with evenly skilled contestents, genetics would be the determining factor for who is gonna win. I mean, that's what it looks like in a nutshell, correct me if I'm wrong, or in case I missed something important there.

 

Dew's example was a good one. Because as you said, you hafta be bloody good to get in. So if all archers there are bloody good, the guy with the worst eyesight clearly is the one who is at a disadvantage. I mean that guy can't even see the bullseye properly, I am not even sure he can see the tip of his arrows, but he still won the gold medal, because he was skilled enough to overcome this disadvantage, regardless of how severe one may think it is or isn't. And let's be honest, archery definitely isn't the most physically demanding discpline out there as far as muscle strength or stamina are considered, it's about accuracy, concentration, and control over you body, and when there's one guy who has extremely bad eyesight, but still wins in a contest that puts accuracy to the test, it seems to me that it "disproves" your entire argument from ground up. I'm not saying there aren't disciplines where physiology can have a much more obvious impact, but that is not a reason to dismiss the olympics as a contest of genetics above all else, at least not in my personal opinion.

 

Are people with a "purpose built body" more likely to win in certain disciplines? Well, yes, but with the caveat that even the most "perfect of bodies" isn't gonna do anything for you, if you are not skilled enough to put it to good use. Skill is more than just an "entry ticket", because even at the top end there are still differences. I'm not saying people don't have "baseline-advantages" due to their genetical heritage, but it would seem there are enough competitive disciplines in which these either play much less of a role, or can be compensated for entirely. If you don't like all of the competitions there, not gonna blame you, I don't either. It's just that the way you made it look a page earlier isn't realistic. It seems daunting to me to imply that people at the olympics are all so evenly skilled that any and all disciplines there are ultimately decided, or rather predetermined, by genes above all else.

 

I mean, if you look at competitive gaming for a change, people like Jonas Neubauer (7 times winner of the classic tetris world championship) didn't win because his body is "perfect for tetris", he isn't the youngest competitor, and I'm not sure if he is the most intelligent player out there, but he clearly is the most consistent one. And all competitors there are way more skilled than any of us to begin with, yet somehow you see some people come and go, while others established themselves in the top ranks for quite some time, in spite of the obvious disadvantages that come with an aging brain, long journeys, shitty nights in small hotel rooms and so forth. That's because even at highest levels of play, people are still different from one another in terms of how skilled they are, how well they handle pressure etc.

 

So TL;DR is "I see it differently", I guess.

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Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

And let's be honest, archery definitely isn't the most physically demanding discpline out there as far as muscle strength or stamina are considered

Sorry, but this makes it really clear that you're not familiar with the rigors of archery.  The skeletons of high-level archers actually become deformed because of the rigors of drawing and holding back the bow.  There is a ridiculous amount of tension on those things.

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2 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So TL;DR is "I see it differently", I guess.

I think one of the biggest distinctions here is the distance we see the Olympics from everything else. Because you are absolutely right about this stuff in terms of nearly everything competition related, and I'm not remotely disagreeing with you in that regard.

 

But the Olympics are just an entirely different scale from regular competition, because of two factors: it requires a significant chunk of a lifetime to prepare for ( factoring in that Olympic athletes get in fairly young to avoid the issue of age bringing them down ), for something that isn't even a career.

 

Granted, yeah, making an appearance in multiple Olympics isn't exact infeasible, but that's a single appearance every two years if you compete in both the Summer and Winter Olympics, which have extremely different events. It's four if you only appear in one, so unlike every other sport - even e-sports - there's no real concept of fatigue like that which comes from sporting careers. I mean, yeah, there's exhaustion from training, but the athletes don't have to bring their best for an attempt at regular times - just every two or four years.

 

The Olympics just lack the factor of sustainability that comes with every other sporting thing, and that's as a result of the lack of regularity which has even more results. An athlete just has to bring their absolute best, a "just" that sounds absurd when applied to, say, an NBA player because of how often they have to play but in the Olympics? Again, you have two or four years to prepare for your time in the spotlight.

 

It's just not really comparable to other things, ironically ( since I've been saying it's a helluva lot of luck in the end ) because it's just less chaotic than what you can try to compare it to.

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23 minutes ago, Cynical said:

Sorry, but this makes it really clear that you're not familiar with the rigors of archery.  The skeletons of high-level archers actually become deformed because of the rigors of drawing and holding back the bow.  There is a ridiculous amount of tension on those things.

Yeah, not wrong, doesn't change the fact that virtually anybody who has a reasonably healthy body can be trained to pull those things. In fact I have seen cyclists with bigger arms than the guy on dew's picture. Of course the retention can cause bones to deform, that's not a phenomenon I am unfamiliar with, since I wear high heels a fucking lot while being aware of the ramifications. And I only weigh like 48.5kg at 152cm height, it still can cause bones to deform, because as a matter of fact, bones are rather easy to deform to begin with if there is enough retention-time, and it happens to me as well, even though I push a lot of my weight on the heels whenever I can. Deforming bones isn't necessarily an indication of how intense a sport is, is what I'm trying to say, but obviously I am also not saying that archery isn't a sport, for whatever that's worth.

 

27 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

But the Olympics are just an entirely different scale from regular competition, because of two factors: it requires a significant chunk of a lifetime to prepare for ( factoring in that Olympic athletes get in fairly young to avoid the issue of age bringing them down ), for something that isn't even a career.

Well that's a thing that I have mixed feelings about as well. It's not unheard of that people basically get prepped for the olympics specifically and then disappear forever. Not sure how often that happens, but I suppose when it does, it is something that effectively wastes people's lives to some extent. I guess it's fair to say that the olympics allow for that, so there certainly is a good reason to place some blame there, at the same time I can't help but think that people who push others into this sort of thing, knowingly, should also be blamed in equal measure. It's a failure on all ends, as far I am concerned.

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I have no clue what my sexuality is

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You're only young, it takes time to learn these things about yourself. As an adult I know with certainty that I am straight and like what I like, but I wasn't 100% positive about that kind of stuff until I was nearing the end of my teens. As long as you approach life with an open mind, you'll be alright. Most importantly, never let guilt or pressure scare you away from liking what you like.

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thank you... I've been thinking about the future a lot, and the prospect of being alone both scares me and comforts me

And I think of times when I could have started relationships but didn't, of people I let down, and I wonder "what if?"

I almost think of them as missed opportunities... not as experiences I could have had, or people I could have been with, but as opportunities... and I feel guilt for that

 

sorry don't mean to unload this edge here lol

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No need to apologize. It's good to turn over the choices you've made and analyze them, but don't spend too much time worrying about the what ifs. My advice is to learn from how your decisions have made you feel and let that knowledge help guide future decision making.

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11 hours ago, Arctangent said:

why do so many people act like i said the olympics didn't require incredible amounts of skill

 

9 hours ago, Arctangent said:

but just the fact that the Olympics is such an extreme level of competition that it actually loses all aspect of skill outside of people entering when they're under the bar.

 

People are arguing with you because when you voice an opinion you're expected to have an opinion.

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3 minutes ago, 40oz said:

People are arguing with you because when you voice an opinion you're expected to have an opinion.

I get the feeling that you're trying to say something, but to even try to do that you had to bend over backwards hard enough to completely destroy you spine just to shove your head so far up your rectum that you've not only rupture it, but also both intestines.

 

Someone call 40oz a doctor before he bleeds to death. I don't think that'll do anything for him trying way too hard to try to "gotcha!" people that he completely fails to realize they already covered their bases hours before, but y'know.

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9 hours ago, Arctangent said:

But the Olympics are just an entirely different scale from regular competition, because of two factors: it requires a significant chunk of a lifetime to prepare for ( factoring in that Olympic athletes get in fairly young to avoid the issue of age bringing them down ), for something that isn't even a career.

Just my two cents, but you know the Olympics aren't the only competition for the sports that appear in them, right? Just because we don't hear about the events outside of the Olympics doesn't mean there aren't any, or that they're unimportant. The Olympics are kind of like a bonus thing that happens once every few years. 

 

For some sports the Olympics are actively unimportant. Sports Climbing will make it's debut this coming Summer Games and the overwhelming reaction among professional climbers is "meh".

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Just now, Bauul said:

Just my two cents, but you know the Olympics aren't the only competition for the sports that appear in them, right? Just because we don't hear about the events outside of the Olympics doesn't mean there aren't any, or that they're unimportant. The Olympics are kind of like a bonus thing that happens once every few years. 

 

For some sports the Olympics are actively unimportant. Sports Climbing will make it's debut this coming Summer Games and the overwhelming reaction among professional climbers is "meh".

I don't think you're actually disagreeing with me here. That whole post was just distinguishing how the Olympics aren't like other sporting events, and how renowned it is is part of that and affects how it ends up is a pretty big aspect of that too.

 

Also, no real wonder that some sort big ol' rock wall or whatever wouldn't exactly draw the attention of actual mountain climbers. Honestly, that sort of illustrates the lack of sustainability as a factor I brought up earlier; whereas actual climbing involves significant risks of injury due to just flat-out scaling natural terrain with one drop likely meaning the end of something, sports climbing no doubt uses terrain specifically designed to facilitate competition and comes with plentiful safety measures to minimize any bad flubs' chance of causing anything serious. The Olympic version has nothing keeping you from going all out, since you'll neither have the risks of actual mountain climbing nor will you have to conserve your strength to safely get back down - meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the major causes of mountain climbing-related deaths is just lack of restraint in terms of the climber making sure they'll be able to get back after reaching the peak.

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46 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

Also, no real wonder that some sort big ol' rock wall or whatever wouldn't exactly draw the attention of actual mountain climbers.

Well no, but I specifically meant Sport Climbers, i.e. those that climb on fake walls. I meant the reaction among those professional climbers has been muted. I'm not talking about traditional Rock Climbers, obviously that can never be replicated in the Olympics as you need a mountain!

 

It just seemed like you were saying that training your whole life for a once-every-four-year event was a waste, and I was saying that for the sports involved it's not once-every-four-years: there are dozens of other competitions throughout the year that are often even more important (within the sport) than the Olympics.

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5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Most importantly, never let guilt or pressure scare you away from liking what you like.

Okay, who else read that as "licking what you like"?

 

@Kapanyo It turns out that a lot of people aren't sure about their sexuality for a very long time. Similar to Doomkid I had a moment of clarity during my teenage days as well. And looking back I'm not sure what was causing me more "discomfort", the idea of not being sure, or the idea of being bisexual, because what was I gonna tell my parents in case I brought home a girlfriend instead of what they would have expected, for example. What came years after that realization was that I actually preferred women over men, which was another reason for me to give my sexual orientation some more thought, turned out I'm still bisexual, not lesbian, but it just so happened I came across more women that I found "attractive enough", for lack of a better expression. That said, things can be quite confusing at times, and that's nothing you should feel any sort of guilt for. Everybody's got to find out for themselves, and aside of "do your homework" there's very little in terms of advice that one could provide. And by "homework" I mean figure out what gets your blood pumping and why, basically.

 

As for relationships, chances are your teenage love-affairs aren't gonna be the most stable thing on earth to begin with. Admittedly that does not sound very encouraging, but there's no denying the fact that both you and would-be-partner are still developing your personalities, while at the same time trying to figure out what each one of you wants out of life, which includes relationships. So maybe take it a bit easier, because really, relationships are opportunities. They are opportunities for everyone involved to learn things about themselves that friendships might not be able to teach, and even if you break up, that time is never really wasted, and it's never really spent better otherwise, no matter how much breaking up may or may not have hurt.

 

Why that feeling of guilt to begin with? If you fall in love, you're quite likely to just want that relationship no matter what, if it was just some sort of "I could have had that relationship, but could do without just fine" then maybe it's just not the right partner, or the right time to start something. Besides, relationships that start with "I like you quite a bit, but I am not quite sure where this will go in the near future" aren't exactly unheard of. Just gotta be honest about these things right away, because if you're not, then that's something you would have to blame yourself for.

 

So, do the things you need to do, to learn what you need to learn, and don't feel bad when something doesn't work right away.

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43 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

And looking back I'm not sure what was causing me more "discomfort", the idea of not being sure, or the idea of being bisexual, because what was I gonna tell my parents in case I brought home a girlfriend instead of what they would have expected, for example.

My 2 cents on this:

 

I think it has much more to do with the idea of falling anywhere in the bi/gay/lesbian etc. area that causes discomfort or maybe even self-loathing, the main cause being the impact this revelation is going to have upon one's (social) life, primarily due to how intolerant and hateful people can be towards something that doesn't fit in their little box.

 

At this time one can't exactly come out revealing something like this without facing some kind of consequences. I just so happen to not be 100% certain either on what end on the spectrum I fall, and should the result be... "unsatisfactory" to say so, I probably wouldn't be affected by it too much, maybe at all, but I most certainly won't be "public" about it in my everyday life or even with the family. There's also something else I keep hidden from people in real life for the exact same reasons, the possible consequences/the risks are just not worth it.

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In your opinion, are situations typically black and white: No

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3 hours ago, Arctangent said:

I get the feeling that you're trying to say something, but to even try to do that you had to bend over backwards hard enough to completely destroy you spine just to shove your head so far up your rectum that you've not only rupture it, but also both intestines.

 

Someone call 40oz a doctor before he bleeds to death. I don't think that'll do anything for him trying way too hard to try to "gotcha!" people that he completely fails to realize they already covered their bases hours before, but y'know.

You're right, it actually was a lot harder to quote those two sentences from different pages with this new forum software than I thought it was. I didn't expect it to be that hard but it didn't feel nearly as painful as your describe and I can assure everyone that no medical attention is needed.

 

Writing that short sentence was actually very easy but your opinion on the olympics seems to us (based on your posts) to have changed from a passionate, but ill-informed one, to a much more specific, and nuanced one. It seems to everyone, based on this forum timeline events that this was a response to the negative feedback you were receiving. The feedback, based on your descriptions, seems far more evil, reactive, and self-mutilating to you than it does to anyone else, I'm sure.

 

The question on my mind is what are you filling this thread with posts for if you don't value your own opinion enough to stick with it for more than two days? Are you actually telling us what you think or are you actively shaping it to fit in a criterion people wouldn't respond negatively towards? If it's the latter I'd prefer you not do that and actually say what you think.

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52 minutes ago, 40oz said:

stuff

wha

 

y'do realize having to clarify that "olympic results aren't really that skill-based" doesn't mean "sports are satan's assdicks and satan's assdicks are meaningless" doesn't qualify as my opinion changing right

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Any post I see after this one about the Olympics and genes and eugenics or whatever gets the person banned for a week.

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Favorite Movie Genre: Action

Favorite Food: Pizza

Favorite Holiday: Halloween

Favorite Memory: My dad helped me put together a dedicated gaming PC after a camping trip

Worst Memory: Literally every time I go camping, I'm not an outdoorsy person

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Favorite Genre Of Music: Metal (namely Circle of Dust and bands from the 80s/90s)

Most Hated Genre of Music: Rap

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Your Definition of Success: Having nearly everything you wanted, a job you really enjoy, and lots of friends

In your opinion,  are situations typically black and white: It depends based on the situation

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Favorite Movie Genre: Tarantino

 

Favorite Food: Pizza

 

Favorite Holiday: Not sure, any time i can stay at home and it's cold outside is a good time

 

Favorite Memory: Playing videogames with friends in my childhood

 

Worst Memory: My family breaking apart (too)

 

Age: 20

 

Favorite Outfit: Some shirt with a cool band/game stamp, jeans, any half nice shoe. Nothing much i guess.

 

Favorite Genre Of Music: Death Metal! Though i got a liking for most of Metal genres and classic rock. Also classical music and some japanese electronic shit (touhou).

 

Most Hated Genre of Music: Screamo/metalcore, most of current brazilian pop and country music. Not really hateful towards it, but it's something i tend to really avoid whenever possible.

 

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Worst Injury: Just some nasty bruises, gladly nothing serious so far.

 

Favorite Hobby: Drawing

 

Your Definition of Success: To live a great life doing what you like. (great life includes financial and emotional stability)

 

In your opinion,  are situations typically black and white: Rarely they are.

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