The DWmegawad Club plays: Newgothic Movement 2 & Deus Vult II

[Crusader No Regret]

It will take me days to finish map 9 honestly so I doubt I'll play it this month.  Did take a tour with god mode: wow, that yellow skull battle.  It's like some of the endgame rooms of Smash TV in Doom (and I suspect it's designed to be fought the same way, keeping up constant fire trying to beat back nearly endless enemies and not get overrun).

[baja blast rd.]

NG2 m09

Pretty sure this one had a nodebuilder error, introduced after testing and right before release. You can see a baron here stuck in the ground, and there are revenants too, and they don't even show up as red arrows on the automap when you IDDTx2. What. So I'll delay this playthrough to a later day, I guess. 

 

NG2 m10

 

Fun map. It's essentially pure BFG spam. Hilariously, many of the other weapons make an appearance, but for the most part you aren't going to be using those, other than the chaingun at the start for the shoot switches. The map is a good crash course on routing and basic manipulation of monster pathing. Once you have the keys and can run out into the outer ring, the map is essentially over if all you want is an exit. But if you try to speedrun it in anything, you'll intimately familiarize yourself with one particular Doom monster known as RNG. 

 

Nine Inch Heels already provided us with a selection of essential categories, so I'll add a slightly rarer one! 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by rdwpa

[galileo31dos01]

MAP08

Time: 35:51

Death Count: 6

Secrets: 2/2

 

Quite fun map, with very nice visuals as usual and a nice tune. BFG-spamming like a god. Both the starting point and the subsequent room were really easy compared to the next parts. I used mostly the rocket launcher and the chaingun to mow down the enemies, and also took care of the revenants early so they wouldn't bother me later. Then the trap room with, everyone. Sure I didn't die with the first horde and I can't even believe myself, but then feeling so blessed with my run, I accidentally ruined it with the two cybers and one archie, stupidly eating one rocket aaaaaaaaaaa... second try, excellent, also this was cute:

Spoiler

But one of them got in the middle and stupidly died. Still the remaining lady killed the mister. And then she got stuck. 

Spoiler

The next part, the RK area took me two tries since in the first one I, again, stupidly, positioned myself where I was teleported before and a revenant punched me in my face and killed me. I have this mania for saving cells when I have less than 300. Badly done. 

Anyway, once the area was cleaned, proceeded to the next room, BFGing the hell knights. Then, after two deaths, managed to kill the archies and the cyber (I don't like this kind of encounters!!). Then this and that, opened the big wall, went to the secret switch to have the sphere prepared and well, let the party started. Fuck those snipers!! All of them!! The archviles really gave me a hard time killing me twice, and the cybers in my opinion were too high and not so fun to deal with them. None of them killed me btw... In my third try I used the sphere to off the archviles as fast as possible, but I couldn't kill them all, so I used one of them to jump to the starting area and, wait until the arena got a bit more cleared.

Spoiler

I don't really know how many Cyberdemons were in the arena but I heard at least 3 explosions. Ok, after that I returned to the arena, killing a few nobles that got inside, and proceeded to kill, slowly, one cyber at a time. And exit the map.

 

[baja blast rd.]

2 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

But one of them got in the middle and stupidly died. Still the remaining lady killed the mister. And then she got stuck. 

The story of life. 

[galileo31dos01]

Ok, there is something weird in map 09:

 

 

I pressed the switch, the lift began to raise, and then wat

[NuMetalManiak]

Yeah I ran into that shit once too, and the "invisible" wall or something. All of it in the blue key room for some reason.

 

MAP10

 

And circling the drain wins again! At least for the opening room. About 1000 enemies yet the level isn't that big. After the BFG grab, the three key coves open up, plus the wall of shotgun guys and arch-viles that actually is the immediate attention grabber. The rest can be circled down the drain too, although with the cyberdemons, it takes much more effort. All bite gets worse after the three-key switch. You can basically open up everything to the exit at this point, but where to use the invulnerabilities is a huge question. The first one, against the barons that show up ahead, or all the annoying enemies that prevent the circling the drain tactic including the cybers and archies who are crown royal for worst monsters ever? The second invulnerability is pretty much required for the endgame grouping, and it's easier. But this one requires quite some tactics to beat, thankfully when it comes to the layout, it's not hard to see which tactics to employ.

[ArmouredBlood]

That node error was there pretty much since I first made the map years ago, and nothing I did ever fixed it. If you guys thought the yellow key fight was tough, you should've tried it when I first made it heheh.

[Demon of the Well]

^^Yes, the tower at the northwestern corner which houses the blue skull (I think?) is majorly borked. It's most obvious once you've hit the switch to actuate the floor and all of the actors start moving around, but if you happen to poke around enough beforehand you'll find the space is mined with invisible 'pylons' and pickup items with an unsettling tendency for pogo-ing up and down. You can very easily irretrievably break the map here should you happen to set foot in the wrong place and get stuck in an invisible hole, but even if this doesn't happen conditions in the room interfere with gameplay in some pretty nasty ways. It's certainly the worst error/issue I've encountered in the mapset up to the point I've currently played, but it's by no means the only one--to be blunt, this current release is starkly unpolished and probably was not properly ready for an /idgames upload.

 

Anyway....hello! Given ongoing time constraints I've mostly opted to leave the detailed commentaries about specific fights or battle techniques to the proper authorities on this one, but I have been quietly playing along when opportunities present themselves. It's immediately recognizable as the sequel to the original (is it "New Gothic Movement pt. X" or is it "New Gothic, Movement x?"Either one works, I think!), certainly, though with some surprises. The earlier part of the set seems like it aims for more of a loosely traditional escalation in map size/monster count than the original ever bothered to entertain. Once it abandons this tack (which at times struck me as weirdly halfhearted or forced, I have to admit), the shift comes with all the subtlety of an atom bomb, mind you, but still I was a little surprised to see that the horde-carpeted locational slaughter of NG1 took as long to appear as it did, perhaps a result of the influence that strides in setpiece design made by other notable WADs have had in the intervening period. 'Pacer' maps aside, I was pleased to see that some of the offbeat 'variety' maps have returned, i. e. the very idiosyncratic map 07. Overall the jury is still out, of course, but thus far my impression has been that NGmvmt 2 is, much like its predecessor, a joyous and spirited genre-piece that is very rough around the edges, with some more sophisticated designs in places (and also a generally higher difficulty pinning, I'd say), but also perhaps a bit more of an identity crisis as a result....? Also, more CC4tex, which in this gameplay/structural context is giving me a weird "so old it's new again" vibe, quite interesting, though not all of the maps appeal to me aesthetically.

 

Some map-by-map ramblings while I've got the time. For funsies, I'll also hazard a guess as to which of the two mappers I think was responsible for each map. In some cases it's quite obvious, but there are also a few where I seem to want to keep second-guessing myself, which I reckon is probably for the good, if you think about it a bit.

 

Map 01 -- Author: ArmouredBlood

As was the case with Mvmnt1, not a particularly elegant opener for the set, and certainly a level somewhat at war with itself over presumably implicit pressure to be both map 01-ish as a light introductory piece and yet lumberingly dense with high-tier monsters at the same time--full slaughter doesn't gel well with any traditional mapslot 'typecastings', IMO, though attempts to make them fit together do occasionally produce some very quirky results.

 

A simple circuit-type layout with little in the way of real height variation, the most notable aspect of the overall design is that if one takes a purely pragmatic 'clear the level' sort of tack (i.e. as opposed to the maxkills tack, which granted is often more of a bedrock assumption between mapper/player in this style of map), only about 66% of the its content (and maybe around 50% of the actual combat?) is mandatory to finish, as the T-bridge before the exit can be approached from two different routes. This simplistic but significant optionality is also felt if you actually do shoot for maxing the map, since the pair of fights en route to this point both play differently if you end up approaching from the rear, offering some different inflections on what are otherwise basically straight corridor-clearing engagements (albeit ones pitched markedly towards large rolling monster groups and heavier weapons, granted). Actual exposure is fairly limited here (perhaps in keeping with map 01 considerations), featuring briefly in the courtyard to the north and also in the last ambush, though the latter in particular makes no real attempt to actually force you to play the encounter.

 

There's a small secret subquest for a hidden BFG as well, which at this early stage is technically a tactical luxury but of course also assuredly an assumed part of the 'true' flow/balance. It's not exactly an Eternal Doom sort of puzzle, granted, but it's a positive sign, nonetheless, I think, as extra design wrinkles like this have great potential to impact the experience and possibilities in significant ways in this style map, versus more conventional types of design where secret-gets are much more often straight power-paddings than hinging points that can greatly change playstyles.

 

The weirdly posh Belgian-torte color/texture scheme doesn't do a whole lot for me here, though I never have been fond of the tiramisu marble juxtaposed so starkly with its racecar-red counterpart. Makes me think of absurdly ornate (read: cloyingly foppish) high fantasy court dress, somehow.

 

Map 02 -- Author: ArmouredBlood (confirmed, yay)

I quite like the opening sequence here, the immediate pedal-to-the-metal of the imp/chainer hallway immediately spilling out into a heavily occupied forum area makes for a dynamic few minutes of play that can be approached in a variety of different ways. Doom ubermenschen (real or merely self-avowed!) can plow straight through the imps and begin an assault on the stairs/lava bath areas by decisively focusing down the revenants at the foot of the lefthand staircase in order to get the PR (which allows for blitzing of the relatively narrow/enclosed paths with cover around the edges of the lava bath), but it's also very doable to about-face with the megasphere and rocket cache and storm right back down the imp hallway, which creates the potential for using Spidermom as a surprisingly long-lived decoy to frustrate the mixed horde which will be pouring out of the bath area at that point (the SSG she's guarding is nice to have, but nowhere near essential once you know a few things about the map and its thing balance).

 

This highlights one of my favorite things about ArmouredBlood's mapping, that being that while he uses tons of block/blanket placements of monsters to prefill large areas, he also usually (with few notable exceptions) allows the vast majority of his minions to move freely not only through their own arenas but through layouts in general, which adds quite a lot of potential depth and emergent encroachment pressure to what might otherwise be a more traditionally static/old-school ZoI-style experience.

 

That first part's definitely the best, I think. Much of the middle is sort of disposable (i.e. the mancubus courtyard, the viles + specter-flood, etc.), and the conceit of having a pair of optional keys is almost entirely opaque (and thus bereft of the thrill of discovering extra/optional stuff) from an experiential standpoint since their asides both read like they're just as likely to be a part of mandatory progression as the actual mandatory progression itself does. The teleportation puzzle is somewhat out of the blue, isn't it? I absolutely appreciate the idea of putting something genre-bending like this in a map of this sort (where non-combat challenges more typically take the form of exam courses on advanced player movement techniques), though in actual effect I don't think this segment actually works very well. Purely as a puzzle it's something pretty much anybody can solve, what with the solution being plastered in plain sight on the wall right beforehand and all, but as something integrated with the general combat in the same area it's largely marginalized and seems like an afterthought. In a total balance sense, the real payoff for skillfully solving the puzzle on the fly/under fire is that you get to telefrag the cyberdemons overlooking the area (IMO this should have been a linked 1-2 chain and not set up to force you to traverse the puzzle up to 3 times in order to use it as a combat maneuver), but in practice the somewhat stilted movement between the offset teleporters, with Doom's hardwired pause after each materialization, neither feels good nor is really effective enough to be worth the trouble. I reckon it counts for something that you have the radsuit option to dispense with the twins more conventionally, though this also underscores how ungainly the puzzle itself is.

 

Map 03 -- Author: Archi

Lighter fare, by quite a wide margin;  depending on how passionate and/or anal one happens to be about the sundry minutiae of Doom taxonomy, this is arguably not a slaughtermap at all, functioning somewhat more like an arcade-y run 'n gun map. Monster density is light on the ground (literally--a big share of the monstercount consists of ledge creatures on the plateaus in the first are) and very little of the population really needs to be fought if you've a mind towards pacifism, though there's enough area denial in the final yard to prevent that tactic from entirely undercutting the action. Warping or otherwise 'revealed' monsters are more of a thing here than in the previous maps (and you'll find that Archi often uses these more than AB as a general rule), as in the optional BFG fight or the RK fight, though here the space : monster density ratio skews gentle to the point that no one encounter really stands out or asserts itself as a map signature. In the interest of entertainment, try taking the cyberdemon from the first area with you through the rest of map, he can be quite the helpful companion if given the chance.

 

Apart from the marked shift in tone in the gameplay, the map's other most notable characteristic is that it's more aesthetically fleshed out than the large and largely practical areas found in the first two maps, with more care given to concourse issues and surface detailing and such (lighting's still a mite flat for my taste, though), although I suspect the impression it gives of being a more polished presentation actually has relatively little to do with the actual visuals, being more a result of the map feeling more cohesive as level with a given setting, as opposed to the approach seen in m02 where there's little if any real conceptual connection between the different standalone  encounters, with the shared texture scheme being the only thing tying the different parts together.

 

Works well enough for what it is, and I don't reckon it's anywhere near as jarringly 'off-model' as m04, though I somehow doubt it will form a strong memory about the set for most of us once we're finished here.

 

Edit: Cut 'n paste fail

Edited June 11, 2017 by Demon of the Well

[Spectre01]

Map06

This one was fun. Large, almost city-style type area with lots of room to run around and generally easy encounters.

 

Map07

Theme shift from goth textures to an Egyptian/temple style. Very cramped encounters but I've got no issue with those. Not a fan of the ending with the Arachnotron crypt and the excessive amount of Cybers in there. You can get them to kill everything but they're a pain to clean up.

[Nine Inch Heels]

NG2 m11:

 

Another map I spent some time on. Unfortunately I never got a clear time that would satisfy me, since the UVmaxes I managed to do here are somewhere between the 9-11 minutes for the most part. This one was made by ArmouredBlood for those who wonder, and it's a fairly linear map, if played conventionally. However it does allow for some sequence breaking AV jumps, which enable players to grab the first invul and the BFG a lot earlier. The early BFG does not necessarily speed up the run though, and unless you're optimizing this map to a very high degree, the conventional approach should work just fine.

 

The key characteristic of the first "half" of this map is incoming fire from virtually all possible directions, along with an opening that can really make you do some fancy footwork. Revenants and arachnotrons can hit quite hard here, which is further emphasized by only having one blue armour pickup available early, and any further blue armour comes by way of megaspheres, most of which happen to be in the same area. Rockets are available in caches throughout the map's first half, and I would assume there's enough supplies here to clear everything prior to getting the BFG, however I would recommend not spending ammo on things you don't need to kill, and instead figuring out where you need to go next and kill what "controls" that area, so you can move a bit more liberally.

 

If you like pumping rockets at all the things, this might be one of your go-to maps up until you made past some AVs and a cadre of revenants. After warping back to the start and grabbing your first key, you find yourself in what I'd call a wall of death scenario. Hell nobles on one side, cybies on the other, you're supposed to get past the hell nobles by way of infighting and BFG-carving past the horde so you can let the infighting continue to have an easier time later.

 

Once you reach the "hellevator" you're in for a treat: A merry-go-round belt-fed BFG-spam fest. Ammo supply is taken care of by way of voodoo doll script: As long as the elevator moves, you have what feels like infinite ammunition to carve through revs, pinkies, mancs, and other fun stuff. There's different methods to this elevator section. Some may prefer to kill the first Cybie to have some more real estate available, others, like me, may prefer to keep the cybie along for the ride, so it can help with killing things. I tried it both ways and found the cybie-assisted method to be more fun. There's plenty of megaspheres here on the elevator, and if you ever wonder where the next megasphere might be, just follow the spiral on the ground and you'll run into one eventually.

 

Once the elevator section is over, you get your red key, which allows you to leave the map pretty much straight away. If you want to do the cleanup for a UVmax, you can have yourself some nice BFG+Invul powertripping.

 

My only gripe with this map is its linearity, which I can only do anything about if I opt into AV-jumping for the sake of sequence breaking. Other than that it makes for a nice trench-warfare-bullet-hell experience, along with a proper BFG-spamfest, both of which goes well with this map's MIDI, which is "Aces high" by Iron maiden, IIRC.

[Spectre01]

Map08

 

Hey, remember the pyramid thing from Speedo Doom? Same red sky too! This map is arguably not as dense and punishing as the former but it still provides a good time. I'd say map08 is my favourite in NG2 so far actually. It's got a nice balance of smaller scale indoor setpieces, which are not trivial to cheese or escape from, and a lengthy outdoor fight in the final area. One thing I will say about the last encounter is that it probably takes a bit too long for all the Hell Knights to finish teleporting in considering how the threat level plummets after you go around and take out the turret Viles. The Cybers were also rather inconvenient to remove from the top of the pyramids but those are rather minor points. Good map overall.

 

[rehelekretep]

map09

fun map, but it slightly outstays it's welcome. my final time was over an hour!

the YK fight is cool.

some of the map (cacoswarms, rev/AV/chaingunner cubbies) can feel like janitor work.

the music is godawful with portmidi so i went full -nomusic after the first 5 minutes or so and restarted the demo.

 

map10

lol

 

map11

i have a soft-spot for maps that re-use areas youve already cleaned out, so this was pretty neat.

the lift-from-hell was interesting, although felt slightly RNG; you can gamble and get your HP down to 100/100 before the next megasphere, but you might take 2 or so rockets and die instantly, or you pick them up too fast and then run out.

anyway, cool stuff.

[galileo31dos01]

 

This is taking quite some time

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP11

 

There's two invulnerabilities that can be used here, one in a secret sector that is available after the red key zone and one that is just behind the red key area using a voodoo doll trick. And yet neither of these I was able to use well. Why? Because of the stressful combat this one offers. I'd like this arena, except one end is made to be a dead end for the most part. The masses of turrets can be dodged and the archies bobbed and weaved until the BFG's presence is revealed, but there is no rest. And then it gets worse when the cybers are revealed. That whole segment at the far north is hellish enough, with the arch-viles coming from the back (where the invulnerability switch is), and the FUCKING ANNOYING CYBERDEMONS ONCE AGAIN.

 

But at least the entire red key fight is one fun-filled riot, one where you can just actually relax while circling the drain. I know right? Relaxing in such a fight? But maybe it's the sheer amount of megaspheres that's there. Wish this hole hadn't tricked me into giving me loads of energy cells beforehand, as it didn't look like ammo was in this hole at all, but due to another voodoo trick, there was. And then we come back to see more cyberdemons and arch-viles, and the stress from them made me forget about the second invulnerability. Also spectres! I think I now know objectively who the three worst monsters in the entire game are now.

[SleepyVelvet]

Map11:  One save before the first cyberdemon clump, another before entering the red key death swirl.  At first glance it may appear as if I spent my saves too early, but I was able to devise a sneaky strategy to completely skip the red key fight;  I instead archvile jumped out of the pit right after activating the switch, and used the infinite ammo on the dozens of cyberdemons and archviles outside instead of it's intended use.  The two invulnerability spheres helped as well to clean up the whole map in relative safety.  Afterwards, I just dropped into the back of the elevator pit, snatched the red key, and slipped out through the teleporter.

 

Map12: Hmmmm... well, at least I found the BFG, so at least I have a fighting chance.  I guess I will continue tomorrow.

[Spectre01]

Map09

 

bugged/10

 

But seriously, I liked the large outdoor areas but the room with invisible stuck in the floor whatever wasn't fun.

 

Map10

 

This one needed some trial and error to see what works after flipping the 3-key switch. Using the invul to break through into the exit area and making good camping use of the upper platform did the trick. The Cyberdemon count felt a bit much but I guess the unlimited cells made up for it.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Spectre01 : Wrong maps

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Map10

 

bugged/10

 

But seriously, I liked the large outdoor areas but the room with invisible stuck in the floor whatever wasn't fun.

You sure got the numbers right? ;-)

[rehelekretep]

yeah i think he's referring to 09?

[Spectre01]

25 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You sure got the numbers right? ;-)

Apparently not. Thanks for catching that!

[galileo31dos01]

MAP09

Time: /o\ 

Spoiler

Death Count: 5

Secrets: 0/0

 

This was the longest I've ever been in a map, seriously. It was incredibly entertaining. Probably my favourite map so far. Foreknowledge is not necessarily until the big circular battle but I took advantage of my several attempts in god mode to work different strategies for that last part. Anyway, so the map started with a few enemies here and there and revenants teleporting right after the first shot if already walked on the lift. Then opened the left-side door (with chaingunners) and cleared the area. Also, during iddqd sessions, HOM detected. Went straight to the red skull part, but I died the first time. My idea was to ride the lift up, run in a circle and ride down the other lift and hear some infight. For some reason the lifts worked randomly and that first time it didn't work (fuck that...). Second try, so much better. Ok after that I went to the other open area, with Pain Elementals hey I missed you!. Cleared the area, and went to the broken blue skull part. With one lucky run I managed to kill everyone without getting fucked up by the invisible walls. 

With both keys in hand, I went first to the umm... well the part where there is a Cyberdemon first. I lured him to a "trap". Actually I just made him rocket the gunners so they and the mancubus would infight them. All silently not to wake up the archviles. Ok then I woke them up by clearing the sides with the RL. -Boooom!! said the cyber. 

After that, I pretty much tried to clear the sides so there wouldn't be any barbecuer alive. Went to the blue keycard and let the cybers come in. If I remember correctly, the imps and cacodemons woke up too. Ahhh, priceless. They scratched the cyber to death. The next was slowly killing the cacodemons since I didn't want them to interfere later. Then, woke up more cybers and killed them. Went to the other side (by returning to the starting point and so on) and woke up the SMM and mancubus, and did the same thing. Then, went to grab the red keycard and kill everyone there. After that, the central path. Again, another priceless moment. The next parts were some Cyber-playing to make them kill some turrets. After that, I offed the archvile-chaingunners combination snipers. Then I went to the terrifying maze, but I found a safer way to kill the cybers. Not in the mood to go inside the maze and be surprised so I just sniped them. I really liked that there were tons of megaspheres and ammo everywhere. A few remaining archviles here and there, and the circular maze was the final step. Prepared a strategy before. Obviously the first thing was clearing the cybers and mancubus. Then, prepared myself full of ammo and health. The idea was to circle the area BFG-spamming until the first archviles appear, then quickly rush into the invulnerability sphere and BFG as much as possible to clear a little bit the center. This took at least 3 tries, all of them dying near the invul-sphere, imagine my reaction... I took my deaths humorously, it obviously was going to took me several tries. Ironically, the winning try was the funniest. Right after grabbing the sphere, I tried to BFG as much as possible but I ran out of cells and the enemies didn't let me grab more ammo lol. I had to pull out the RL and get the fuck away. I could grab more cells but that was intense. Went back to circle and BFG-spam all the way. Literally near death all the time, chaingunners can go fuck themselves... I was like "PLEASE FUCKING DOORS OPEN NOW!!". The doors opened and I just got the fuck out all terrified. Went to recover myself and returned to kill the rest. After everyone was dead, that means 3725/3725, the last thing was to grab the remaining items and leave the map. Beautiful effect btw. This switch is to open the doors if they close again, it just doesn't have a sound or a visual effect. 

 

So, I think I said it all. 

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP12

 

Sounds like the same Descent track ArmouredBlood used in the 1994 Tune-up map he did. Anyways, another 1000-monster styled arena, actually, it manages not to be too bad despite the turret placement. And looking at it from a pistol start perspective, it's not hard to find each and every weapon. As well as each and every key too, but bear in mind the numbers get to their worst varieties upon grabbing the keys, where the arch-viles come in and make running around much more terse, while cyberdemons roam above. Thankfully, the latter got much more easily distracted by infighting and I generally stood away from them as much as possible. The only real trouble spots here were the arch-viles at the yellow key, the cyber who apparently blocked my exit where the red key was, and trying to figure out what to do after the blue key. The three-key room wasn't a cinch either but it can be door-camped, and the final arena could potentially be hard, if it wasn't for me figuring out the secrets before.

 

I don't know the true way of getting these two secrets but what I did for the megaarmor one is to jump from the BFG platform onto the one below it, then maneuver to that megaarmor, and for the secret invulnerability, from the blue key area, go on one of the rising pillars, and make series of jumps all the way to the east. Of course for the latter, the enemies needed being eliminated, as they get in the way. Are these how you are supposed to get the secrets, or is there another way? Seems all too strange. Either way, the whole final fight was made rather underwhelming with that secret invulnerability, but I can use a breather every now and then. Great stuff.

[galileo31dos01]

MAP10

Time: 38:52

Death Count: technically 0

Secrets: 0/0 again

 

A "short" map that had me sweating all the time, why? Well see it for yourself. You can't actually see nothing there lol, there were at least 15 Cyberdemons stomping the ground and I pretty much had no more cells behind me, plus a few little buddies making it to where I was, believe me I preferred to take the screenshot from that spot... But let's start from the beginning, I pretty much did the "pistol start way", that means circling the revenants, shooting the switches, grabbing the BFG even though I already had one, and THEN use it clear the periphery. I guess I wanted to do try their way for once :3 

Circling the arena while waiting until there were only cybers and the wall of resurrecting gunners, then entered inside and clear them all. Have to admit I ate a rocket but at least there were plenty of beauty-spheres around. I liked these panels. 

Ok then the real fight came, I immediately took the mandatory invulnerability sphere and rush into the whatever they were to take the next sphere and omg I couldn't see a shit but at least there were explosions everywhere. I switched to my rocket launcher to save cells but even doing that and I run out of cells! So yeah, a few suicidal attempts to grab cells from the stairs and with all my weaponry I could kill all the cyberdemons. The rest was very easy, some Spider Masterminds and Cyberdemons, killing each other, leaving me the winner ladies to mow down. I took a picture of one SMM owning a cyber but you can't see the lady so it makes no sense to post it.

And that's it, the map was over. Very fun map! Yay I'm having with the wad again lol    

[Grain of Salt]

9 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

there were at least 15 Cyberdemons stomping the ground and I pretty much had no more cells behind me, plus a few little buddies making it to where I was, believe me I preferred to take the screenshot from that spot... But let's start from the beginning,   

This is also the opening of The Emperor's New Groove.

[galileo31dos01]

12 minutes ago, Grain of Salt said:

This is also the opening of The Emperor's New Groove.

Except here going down to join them would not be a very smart idea.

[Crusader No Regret]

Map 12: Completed without cheats  1/2 secrets

 

  Death/reload count is ridiculously high.  This is a fun map to run around with god mode.  All those cybers stomping around to be weaponized against everything else in the map.  This writeup is about what happens when I decide to be a bit crazy and try to survive honestly though.

 

  I opt to go for rocket launcher right away, then beeline for backpack and SSG.  BFG presents an interesting strategic choice.  Picking it up release pikes of revenants, which are much easier to handle when the cybers are on ground level.  However, before that point, hundreds of demons spawn in a little more than a minute after the map starts (I think it's about 1;10, know for sure it's on a timer but not sure when it starts).  It a lot easier to carve a path and avoid being pinned with BFG in hand.  The ammo balance suggests this is an infighting centric map too (more than half the monster population died without my involvement) so killing everything directly could create ammo problems.  There's actually plentiful ammo as I find out, though a lot isn't available until the end and accessing the cache by the yellow key entails releasing more monsters. There's less health than what I'm used to seeing in an Armoredblood map too.  I used up both Soulspheres before I had all three keys and this is still with my tendency to savescum most damage away.

 

  Discovered that demons can't climb the steps to the building with a pair of revenants in alcoves.  So at some point, I found myself there to avoid being chomped on.  This is not a safe spot being it's open to projectile hell but at least there is just enough dodging room.  One would be a sitting duck for arachnotron turrets nearby though more often than not, they die to infighting before I'm penned in.  Eventually though, the cybers take out snipers and carve through the wall of demon meat.  Slipping out is a problem, haven't found a consistent approach.  Did get lucky after enough reloads but camping out here is clearly a dumb idea.

 

  I go for BFG next, which is always dicey when cybers are roaming.  Worth it to turn them on the dozens of revenants that come out when BFG is grabbed.  Finally, after nearly all the monsters on the sidelines go down to cyber rockets, I take out most of the cybers.  Easy to circlestrafe them to death but it's something to be earned given the intensity of this map.  One or two that are having trouble returning fire are still around but I leave them be.

 

  Red key is no problem with foreknowlege.  With no ledge snipers, it's simple to rush down the archviles and hit the switch to lower the barrier that locks the player in.  Yellow key is very much the hardest with all those archviles and a cacoswarm that will nail anyone standing still.  The two archviles by the yellow key itself can be killed early with rocket splash which will make the encounter a little easier.  I had killed off the cybers (as well as everything else in the outdoor area) at this point so (gasp) actually deflated the cacoswarm myself.  It would be fun to have a cyber available but that would create other problems with survival.  Blue key is easy with the "get out of dodge" approach.

 

  Skipping ahead to the 3 key switch, it's another lock in fight and will likely kill off a blind player at least once.  Intimidating but actually quite doable.  Rush for the invulnerability and clear out the ledge enemies (getting them angry at the cybers works too).  The cybers can be cheesed from the ledges as long as one has enough ammo left.

  Did the last fight without the secret invulnerability.  It looks overwhelming but I found the easiest way through is to take out the revenants by the release switch with a BFG shot, hit it, then retreat outdoors and fight from there.  Cowardly perhaps, though things can still go sour if the archviles get too busy.  I count up excess ammo when everything is downed; 30ish rocket boxes, 30 bulk cells, 3 shell boxes.

 

  Whew, what a crazy map.  The space station asthetic appeals to me somehow.  Reminds me most of maps 12 and 17 of JPCP though with less monster density.

[rehelekretep]

yeah im finding 12 utterly bewildering. i went to the YK and the AVs were just insane - if i try and seek cover i just get blasted by something else.

[rehelekretep]

ok i can get the RK & YK inside 2 minutes.

then when i go for the BK i cant work out the trigger, and i get stuck either on the dais, or run out of BFG trying to run around looking for health/ammo/my fucking marbles.

i need someone better than me to work this out :(

[SleepyVelvet]

on map 12, I can blitz to get all keys with no saves, but then it's almost too nuts to continue:

 

-grab the red key then vile jump out

-swing around and pick up a some health around the perimeter, while heading to the yellow key

-grab the yellow key and archvile over the fence

-pick up the backpack and weave through the cacos towards the blue key

-either get the blue key legit, or just wait a few moments for one of the yellow key archviles to come, then vile jump a third time for the blue key

-attempt to go for the BFG and get lucky enough to get into the west door

 

result: too many monsters.  I might change the order of the blue and yellow key.  because releasing the viles too early might not be a good idea.

 

also, upon writing this, it dawned on my that I could open the door to the west before getting the three keys. i guess i could "pull the cork" and let those nobles and pain elementals out to make it easier to weave myself into there after getting the 3 keys and BFG.

[rehelekretep]

it seems like whatever order i go in, the number of monsters fucks me around the 3rd key.

i wonder if youre meant to run around without picking up the BFG until the last key? YK?

i dunno :(

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP13

 

And here I was expecting a sequel to that big ass city map that had this same mapslot in the previous New Gothic. But from onset, this one is quite spacious, for a dungeon look at least. And guess what, not a whole lot of enemies to tackle, hide-and-seek with chaingunners, plus rocketing our Dead Simple monsters and revenants, not too bad. See? I prefer starts like this. Ease into the battles why don't you? Not saying the previous ones were bad, since they all faced away from me then except for a select few.

 

After the blue key and an apparent cave drop, more caves, some stock full of imps while others have more hiding chaingunners. But nothing that could fill things up to the limit. The cool part comes next, the submerged mini-city under the water. Here, cacodemons take role as the new annoying monster, but still aren't as bad as they ought to be. Two keys, red and yellow, both of which apparently do lead to exits, which is strange. Yellow door route is significantly easier, thanks to an unavoidable crusher segment with cyberdemons. I say it's easier, cause of the invulnerability. Red door section has quite a few setpieces, and secrets, to tackle, some hard and some not. Nothing's unfair in either case, at least until the arch-viles guarding the exit portals come to. Why would you bumrush such enemies? And also, here I was thinking that some MAPINFO work was in the works, because I legit thought the longer road (the red door route) was our secret exit.