Recycled Community Project

35 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Hey, I might be able to contribute some 'art'. :)

 

35 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

 

u4Dlt0X.jpg

In case people agree, we could use this as a logo for the OP, looks very enticing in my opinion. Lemme know if you agree. ;-)

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33 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

No weapons in terms of secrets either? Is there ammo for weapons you can't even get at all?

Basically, from what I've seen so far, he gives rockets and ammo boxes in the beginning, but no actual weapons. I had to fist fight afterwards and got killed, because the author decided to throw at me a bunch of cacos, some hell knights, many zombiemen and he surely has a crush on pinkies, because I see those everywhere. Imagine having to fight a swarm of them with the fists in a closed up space (no berserk). It is painful! Only later I got to see some sergeants and stole their shotguns, but it wasn't enough ammo and iddqd-ed to reach at that point. So, I wasn't able to look for secrets this way. I am going to open this bad boy in Doom Builder 2, just to see where he put em.

And great ideas you gave me. Yes, throwing away a room completely might be a waste.

Here are some screenshots:

Spoiler

Capture1.PNG.ae00bf8e534cc9c0284d81951a3c0525.PNGCapture2.PNG.341c7c9cabbe022ba4237e3807026a7e.PNGUntitled1.png.31ffaf102dfbdf72a6e58aa17e13ef07.pngUntitled3.png.f4b37ecf9c04f0d7649eec727165e4ec.pngUntitled4.png.1e3b39bce902a58329253b7445cf9f9e.png

OMG, I was wrong!!! It is full of hitscanners!!! I don't know anymore. Do you recommend a total rework (will take time) or abandon mission and search for another map?

 

 

Edited by ShotgunDemolition

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I'm doing this map here: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/a-c/capefear

 

There's a video of my good friend CaptainPlanets playing through it here:

 

 

Seeing how the author was not terribly keen on sticking to a consistent visual theme, I think I'll convert it to a hell-themed map (because red, FTW!), and maybe beef up the difficulty a trifle (and turn down the hitscanners a notch or two).

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6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

In case people agree, we could use this as a logo for the OP, looks very enticing in my opinion. Lemme know if you agree. ;-)

I like it, but I think the other logo looks more, y'know, logo-like. ;-)

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3 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Basically, from what I've seen so far,

I need a download link to have a look myself. Either the author was trolling, or you overlooked something somewhere. perhaps there is an easy solution to this...

 

2 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

Seeing how the author was not terribly keen on sticking to a consistent visual theme, I think I'll convert it to a hell-themed map (because red, FTW!)

I think before you do that, you may want to read the rules of engagement once more. Mind you, it is not necessarily a bad idea to have a map with mixed visual themes, provided they are transitioned well between one another. Authors that are able to do this consistently and seamlessly show some admirable mapping talent in regards to visuals. ;-)

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Neat idea!  Count me in!  I have some early WADs that I would love to redo.

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4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

-Overhauls must respect the original idea of the map, meaning: You are not allowed to turn a corridor into a wide-open area for freewheeling slaughter. If you choose to make a terrywad enjoyable, these would be the exception to this rule for obvious reasons.

The idea of this map is that the player is trying to escape from an SS base. However, the map includes obviously hell-themed areas, and in places Wolfenstein textures are used alongside brown, tech, and hell-themed textures (in the same room!). So some texture re-work is needed. By the rule quoted above, did you mean to include visual or story-related elements, and not just gameplay elements?

 

EDIT: I also doubt people want to fight all the hitscanners that are the natural consequence of military base maps. Or is that just me?

Edited by 42PercentHealth

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14 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Alright I had a look. From what I have seen it would appear that the first map where you get the chainsaw and the RL is intended to be relatively cramped, because it is mostly meant to be a tyson style map, if we exclude the HK, revenant on the ledge, and the baron, all of which are best dealt with by way of rockets, for that matter. That being said, it makes some sense for there to be limited real estate to work with. Of course, the ceiling in the opening rooms is so low, that it might be worth trying to raise it and add some ceiling details, for example. If you want to leave the tyson style part of the map as is in regards to its concept, and I would actually endorse that personally, you may need to find a way to make that part of the map work for tysoning, if you started on what was previsously map number 2 (where you get the SSG). If that makes any sense. Since both maps are relatively short, it may be a good idea to think about adding rooms to connect the maps properly and give the final product some more playtime, but that is up to you, I'm simply thinking aloud here. ;-)

I think I get it now. I could keep player tight on ammo,force them use chainsaw or berserk pack(to keep this wad spirit),but I could increase some space in areas. Other settings increase monster count,but reduce ammo count. Biggest difference between skills that in HMP and UV in ending area has pain elemental and archvile and put more hell knights and cacodemons. I can see some kind of wall lowering between connected maps,I think I should print map and do experiments on paper. 

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2 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

However, the map includes obviously hell-themed areas, and in places Wolfenstein textures are used alongside brown, tech, and hell-themed textures (in the same room!)

This obviously makes not a lot of sense. I've seen maps which alter between wolfenstein and hell themes already though, and that is nothing I'm against personally. My suggestion would be to try to make the visual transition between themes less abrupt and more fluent. It may not be easy to do, but it will certainly make for a nice challenge. ;-)

 

Note that you can use custom textures for this purpose as well. SO if you've seen something that you think may help you pull it off, go ahead.

 

In regard to the rules I also stated that changing the visual theme of rooms entirely, i.e. converting a marble-room to tech-room, is not allowed, and that was what I concerned about until now.

 

8 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

EDIT: I also doubt people want to fight all the hitscanners that are the natural consequence of military base maps. Or is that just me?

It may be feasible to mix things up a bit for variety's sake. The transitioning between individual themes can go very well with a transition of monsters used, as it almost turns a map into a small story of its own, which is something I find to be enjoyable personally. Should you feel like it's a total hitscan overload for extended periods of time, you could mix in imps, or demons/spectres, for example. I don't think that would hurt a lot, but as long as the player is within "wolfenstein", I feel like these hitscans belong there because theme. Other than that, you could make the hitscan portion of map more "sufferable" by increasing the pacing, adding health/armour, or cutting down the monster counts a bit. Just a few suggestions that come to mind just now. It's your call ;-)

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10 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

I could keep player tight on ammo,force them use chainsaw or berserk pack(to keep this wad spirit),but I could increase some space in areas. Other settings increase monster count,but reduce ammo count.

Sounds like you have a plan already. I like it. :-)

 

10 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

I can see some kind of wall lowering between connected maps,I think I should print map and do experiments on paper.

No pressure, take your time with this. 6 months is plenty.

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5 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

This obviously makes not a lot of sense. I've seen maps which alter between wolfenstein and hell themes already though, and that is nothing I'm against personally. My suggestion would be to try to make the visual transition between themes less abrupt and more fluent. It may not be easy to do, but it will certainly make for a nice challenge. ;-)

 

Note that you can use custom textures for this purpose as well. SO if you've seen something that you think may help you pull it off, go ahead.

Custom textures will probably be a big help! :-)

 

6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

In regard to the rules I also stated that changing the visual theme of rooms entirely, i.e. converting a marble-room to tech-room, is not allowed, and that was what I concerned about until now.

Gotcha... I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the suggestions!

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I think it's a lot different to rework your own early/bad efforts versus reworking a map by some unknown author from many years ago. Even if you've grown a lot as a mapper, you're still bound to your own tendencies, styles, and original concepts for the map, which is going to result in a map that is still mostly yours, and will probably resemble your other recent maps. Trying to interpret an unknown author's ideas, keeping and slightly adjusting things that work, transforming things that don't work, seems like a much more interesting process to me, and will probably have more interesting results.

 

Just a theoretical objection to people reworking their own maps. It's nothing serious and don't think the rules need to be changed. Just wanted to get my thoughts out.

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I better jump on this while there are still slots left. I'll be remaking the first map of this wad: http://www.mediafire.com/file/gkz3p12pcpcxlqs/testytester.wad It's my own wad, and map01 is the first map I've ever made. The dehacked patch I used with my wad will of course not be used when remaking the map. It originally took me about 6 months, but my mapping speed has improved dramatically since then so I could probably recreate it in about 6 hours. It'll take a bit longer than that to genuinely improve it, though. I've been planning to remake it anyway, but I guess this just gives me a reason and a deadline so that I can get on it right away.

 

I assume that since it's my own map, I'll be given more leniency when it comes to stuff like adding areas and "respecting the original idea of the map"? I wanna make my map frickin' perfect, so there will likely be additional areas as well as massively redone texture-workings and whatnot. Thank you friend. :)

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4 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I assume that since it's my own map, I'll be given more leniency when it comes to stuff like adding areas and "respecting the original idea of the map"? I wanna make my map frickin' perfect, so there will likely be additional areas as well as massively redone texture-workings and whatnot. Thank you friend. :)

Welcome to the show bonnie. :-)

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Hmmm. Thinking I might rework one of the maps I originally made for Freedoom that were cut :)

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10 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

 

Didn't see that post. manimsuchanidiot

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11 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I need a download link to have a look myself. Either the author was trolling, or you overlooked something somewhere. perhaps there is an easy solution to this...

Here it is: idgames link

A second opinion would be really appreciated!

By the way, from looking at the txt, I can't say that he seemed to be trolling. In fact, it was like he was proud of his map. Maybe he was a pro or he didn't playtest well his map, despite saying he spent hours balancing it on UV. He also says about finding a chainsaw early on, which I didn't come across, so it could as well be a secret and he encourages saving often.

These are said, in the txt, at one point:

 

Here are some tips for playing the level:
1. You are given a chainsaw early on.  Use it whenever you can to conserve ammo.
2. SAVE OFTEN.  There's plenty of nasty traps which can kill you rather quickly.
3. There's a boss fight at the end.  Just thought you'd like to know.

Edited by ShotgunDemolition

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1 hour ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

A second opinion would be really appreciated!

By the way, from looking at the txt, I can't say that he seemed to be trolling.

Either way... I made to the SSG that is somehwere in the map by mostly ignoring most of the things on UV settings. That map is so loaded with mobs and mid tiers prior to an SSG that there's no way this guy had any idea what he was doing, imo... The way he placed things the map warrants an early SSG, and perhaps even a rocket launcher as a secret, to help players get to speed to begin with. Once the SSG is in place, you may want to do some test runs to see if health supply is OK, meaning not too much for the vastly improved clearspeed.

 

Other than that I noticed from the screenies that monster teleport batteries are set up via "sound tunnels", which is a crude, unnecessary and outdated method of making those batteries work. These sound tunnels may get in your way during detailing, so you may want to make sure to join sectors to ensure proper sound propagation while making sure you have more liberty for detailing as well.

 

Other than that, once the SSG is there, you may want to see if the plasma gun or even BFG is available when it is needed... once you know where things are going to happen, check your map to make sure the firepower is available when the pacing calls for it.

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Ok, I shall implement dem guns and start testing. But there are two more questions:

1) Can I edit the map file directly, as I downloaded it, or do I have to make a completely new map in Boom format and try to keep it in check with the old one? I mean, it is compatible with Boom (says the author).

2) Can I delete the teleports and add the monsters straight away, because I don't know yet how to make a teleporter the right way, or should I just search for tutorials (6 months is plenty of time for that)?

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5 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

1) Can I edit the map file directly, as I downloaded it, or do I have to make a completely new map in Boom format and try to keep it in check with the old one? I mean, it is compatible with Boom (says the author).

that map is compatible with anything since it is very basic in execution. You can edit the existing map, hence my advice to get rid of sound tunnels so you can detail the map better later...

 

6 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

2) Can I delete the teleports and add the monsters straight away, because I don't know yet how to make a teleporter the right way, or should I just search for tutorials (6 months is plenty of time for that)?

I acn give you a brief tutorial on teleporters via pm, other than that, there's linguica's vanilla editing tutorial that explains how these work. That aside, you have a map with functioning teleporters, which my be a good way to familiarize yourself with how they are "made". Teleporters are essential knowldge when it comes to mapping, so it is something you may want to learn anyways. ;-)

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2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Here it is: idgames link

A second opinion would be really appreciated!

My opinion is that this map sucks. 

 

I don't think the author is actually trolling though. I've gone on some idgames random binges and this type of imbalance isn't the norm but this is perfectly in line with an earnest attempt at a map that just doesn't work. Very early on, the author definitely expects you to punch out pinkies and stuff with the unberserked fist. 

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41 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I can give you a brief tutorial on teleporters via pm, other than that, there's linguica's vanilla editing tutorial that explains how these work. That aside, you have a map with functioning teleporters, which my be a good way to familiarize yourself with how they are "made". Teleporters are essential knowldge when it comes to mapping, so it is something you may want to learn anyways. ;-)

Ok then. I think I shall check Linguica's tutorial then and if I want more details or can't get it working, I will pm you. And thanks for offering to help me!  :)

33 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

My opinion is that this map sucks. 

 

I don't think the author is actually trolling though. I've gone on some idgames random binges and this type of imbalance isn't the norm but this is perfectly in line with an earnest attempt at a map that just doesn't work. Very early on, the author definitely expects you to punch out pinkies and stuff with the unberserked fist. 

I am of a similar opinion too. He definitely isn't trolling. I still wonder though, about who did the playtesting? Well, when I first played it I remember thinking: <<Oh boy!!! I hit a gold mine!>> (for the project that is)

As a map, what made me wanting to reconstruct it, is its simplistic architecture and that generator room with the moving thingies (it reminded me of map 6 from TNT). I believe with a bit more detailing, it could actually look perfect, so what I want to focus is gameplay and testing now.

Edited by ShotgunDemolition

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If you guys allow it, can I make this my updates post, where I can put one spoiler for each update? I will only write when I have a lot of stuff to write about. For now, I will have just this one here (tell me what you think on this idea).

Update 1:

Spoiler

Ok, I started working on it. Before the changes, I couldn't even kill 50 monsters. After adding just an SSG, a Chaingun and a secret RL, can you imagine how many monsters I killed, by playing casually? 250, which is almost half the monsters in the map (and then I stopped playing, because I couldn't find the key)! Ok, make that 220 or something without the RL. Just WOWWWWW! :)

I also removed some Revs, Spectres, Sergeants, Imps, e.t.c. from before.

 

For now, I will be working on a platforming maze with boxes and a blue key, the author made. It is a cool idea, but it is filled to the brim with Shotgun Sergeants (I <<killed em all>>, but PLEASE, NOT SO MANY!!!) and I can't figure out the platforming route the author wants me to follow, because the whole room is a tall, vertical, son of a bitch (imagine that I am good at puzzle games, but I just can't stand this one).

 

Additionally, I will have to remove the strobe lighting the author chose in some of his rooms (2Hz blinking lights, from 0 to 250, means changing 250 units, for 2 times, EACH SECOND). It is epilepsy at its finest! And I saw some Cybies in the far distance, when I nocliped to check for secrets, which can only be bad, if I judge by the map's current stage (this is going to hurt, A LOT!!!).

And at the end, I will change some textures that I didn't like.

<<so far, so good...so what!>>

 

Edited by ShotgunDemolition

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1 minute ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

but it is filled to the brim with Shotgun Sergeants (I <<killed em all>>, but PLEASE, NOT SO MANY!!!) 

Color me surprised that someone named ShotgunDemolotion wants to remove sergeants.

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7 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

If you guys allow it, can I make this my updates post, where I can put one spoiler for each update?

I don't think there's any way for us to be notified that you made an edit to this post, and it will soon be buried under all the other posts that follow. You're probably just better off making a new post every time you have something to say. Nobody will complain about spamminess or anything....

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14 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

I also removed some Revs, Spectres, Sergeants, Imps, e.t.c. from before.

adding firepower while also removing opposition might be a touch too much, but I can't say for sure. Keep in mind that ideally you don't want to trivialize the map entirely ;-)

 

 

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So I guess I could add in something.

 

A long while ago I wanted to make a "cross country" style of map, easy enough to complete, but the start and the finish are really distanced. Thing is, it was... small, and not living up to the atmosphere I thought off. So I am starting anew! This morning I made a test map with having point A at one corner of a map and B being at the other corner of the map. You know how long it took to reach A to B? A full minute of running! I measured it all up.

 

I plan on adding some hills, some ditches, probably a river, make it look as desolate and barren as possible. The player would have to reach the shack to end the map.

 

design.jpg.63e4395be3a646a256dc9f2081fb20cf.jpg

 

Why am I doing this? In the name of art of course! (don't worry I will keep it within safety protocols and not it won't crash or lag your devices once I am done)

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Battle_Kirby, I'm a bit confused. You're going to make a bad map for others to overhaul? 

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4 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Battle_Kirby, I'm a bit confused. You're going to make a bad map for others to overhaul? 

Who says it will be a bad map?

 

Distance would probably be the most annoying thing, and that is all. Everything else is going to be completely fine (by standards or comparison? I'll try hard to make it the first one)

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10 minutes ago, Battle_Kirby said:

I plan on adding some hills, some ditches, probably a river, make it look as desolate and barren as possible. The player would have to reach the shack to end the map.

Keep in mind that while doom is a lot about movement, moving almost exclusively is not necessarily enticing gameplay. The distance you travel is much less important than the quality of each inch moved. The best of maps that I can think of aren't remotely as sizeable, but take easily +10 minutes to finish more often than not. If you want for players to move through a countryside, make sure there is gameplay there, and please consider that scenery isn't gameplay.

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