Recycled Community Project

7 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Keep in mind that while doom is a lot about movement, moving almost exclusively is not necessarily enticing gameplay. The distance you travel is much less important than the quality of each inch moved. The best of maps that I can think of aren't remotely as sizeable, but take easily +10 minutes to finish more often than not. If you want for players to move through a countryside, make sure there is gameplay there, and please consider that scenery isn't gameplay.

Well, I planned to have half travel, half shootout. However, I won't have map-wide keycard hunts or anything that dickish, most likely make two three puzzles with a new weapon, armor, and ammo/super charge as a reward, and keycards will be close to corresponding doors, but a bit harder to grab (either behind a mook, or in a tree log, somewhere close basically).

 

Imagine your average wrpg, but so minimalized by the root of 10, with most concepts in (small "dungeons", monsters, and a final goal), and you will get my map.

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7 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

adding firepower while also removing opposition might be a touch too much, but I can't say for sure. Keep in mind that ideally you don't want to trivialize the map entirely ;-)

Yes of course, but I barely added any ammo. Just the guns basically, that don't shift the balance immensely, though they make the map a whole lot more playable (The ammo was already there by the author). In fact, I even removed some bullet clips and armor bonuses, here and there, because they were inconsistently spread across the level and didn't look good (it didn't affect the gameplay much, so I will probably replace those with just a well placed ammo box). Mainly, I removed a few enemies, because having 5 Revs and like 10 to 15 Spectres were too much for such a small and short corridor. To face this threat, the player would simply have to open a previous door, get in the previous room and door camp for ages. So, I kept 2 Revs in sight (and 1 hidden some steps away, for when the encounter ends), 4 Spectres and I moved 2 Hellknights from a previous corridor there. This way the action is as it should be and the door camping is reduced. 

28 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

I don't think there's any way for us to be notified that you made an edit to this post, and it will soon be buried under all the other posts that follow. You're probably just better off making a new post every time you have something to say. Nobody will complain about spamminess or anything....

Yeah, you are right. I forgot that others aren't notified, when I edit my posts. Goodbye personal update post idea.  :(

34 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Color me surprised that someone named ShotgunDemolotion wants to remove sergeants.

THERE WERE 50 SHOTGUNNERS!!! The author could have used Zombiemen or Chaingunners, once in a while, for variety (at least I would do that). Don't get me wrong, I love killing Sergeants, but I don't know if it is nice for the player, to have so many in a room (that is a big room, but still, you had to climb to see many of them and most of the shotgunners were stacked in groups next to each other). Maybe I will change a few of them to other monsters, instead of totally removing them. Besides, totally removing monsters from that area, would make it look empty and barren, except from making it easier than it should be. For now I will leave those guys, as they are and check other things on the level that need fixing.

 

Still it was a funny thing you noticed there.  :D

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5 minutes ago, Battle_Kirby said:

Imagine your average wrpg, but so minimalized by the root of 10, with most concepts in (small "dungeons", monsters, and a final goal), and you will get my map.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are opting to build an adventure map. If that is the case I'm looking forward to a proof of concept when it is available. Make sure that, when you start working on large stretches of areas, there is some gameplay density there that has some merit to it. I wouldn't want to see this map being too weak on the gameplay side of things, since we're here for overall polish.

 

I can see a map like this being interesting if you have the occasional dungeon-ish setpiece encounter to look forward to, but make sure there is also something inbetween that keeps players on their toes.

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I just begin my shit. my main project can wait :D

ab.jpg

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Update 3:

First thought:

Spoiler

Apparently the map I picked to fix, aims to make kiddies shit their pants at night, after having played it. It is a masochist's wet dream. It seems to depend heavily on the concept of: <<No ammo for you, yer damn bastard!!!>> and I got really angry with it (now I am fine). I tried to play it legit this time and I reached a lot further, after finding the blue key that got me stuck the previous time, though cheating was inevitable (I killed 300something/580 enemies before cheating).

But before that, as I was killing my way through a previous room, my gaze fell on a chainsaw the author placed. Let me tell you, the whole map depends heavily on that chainsaw in a lot of its rooms that have only spectres inside. I already made a corridor that would work this way, work with weapons instead, for variety's sake. So, I now have two questions:

1) The player may get bored this way. Can I change some more of these chainsaw heavy rooms (not all, just some) or delete them, as from a point and after, the map feels like a drag (it must take 30 minutes at the very least, for a casual player, to play this map)?

2) Do you think the chainsaw here is visible enough or should I make it more in the players face? (the player follows the metallic tiles from the right side of the picture and goes to the left, continuing with the blue stream of water, until the left of the pic)

Untitled3.png.09e16e689901d15556650afec5a6b401.png

Second thought:

Spoiler

So, when I started playing the map, I said I would get the blue key, in the platforming section and continue this time from there, since I had enough ammo last time. I finally found the solution to the puzzle, although it was well hidden and anyone who would play it for their first time, would probably get angry and close the game, after many minutes worth of effort, searching. I took the liberty and moved a few crates, so it is at least visible by the player to proceed.

In the end of the puzzle however, as you finish climbing, there is an ambush with 4 Revs, just before the blue key (we are talking a high place there, with very little space to maneuver and lots of frustration, if you accidentally fall down). There, I shall keep only 2-3 Revs on UV, though it is still quite a deadly trap and the player won't be expecting it anyways, after all the platforming.

Here is a picture (not that clear, but whatever):

Untitled2.png.d17afa1a56dad80ff85f9f53a892265d.png

That was that.

Third thought:

Spoiler

The Rocket Launcher secret, I made at the beginning wasn't really needed, since the author gives an RL later on (not that much hidden I guess) and I will have to destroy it. DAMN IT!!!

Besides, you don't need the RL early on and it can be used as an Early-Access, via my secret.

Fourth thought:

Spoiler

After a couple of rooms, there is a room where if you open the door, the action is IN YOUR FACE and there is no way you can survive that, unless you have died here before and know what is where (I may have to tone that a tiny bit down).

Here is how the room is now, with no almost no deaf monsters:

Untitled5.png.c3b9327915e6b66d4d48b62597e00e65.png

And in the next room, get ready for a Caco-storm. If you dare call it a wave, it would be more or less like a tidal wave. The ammo is barely enough to get you through the enemies placed there and when you grab the yellow key and the plasma rifle, get ready for some teleporting of even greater Caco-proportions (and some Pinkies). You seriously need to camp in the nearby tiny room, that had the yellow key inside and chainsaw the enemies, after you have no more ammo left (doable but a newbie would throw his pc out of the window, as I can imagine). I may not change this room, or if I do, it will have to be more cells added (don't think so however, because the character of the map revolves around chainsawing and it felt creative to me, killing those baddies, this way). 

Here is a pic:

*blank*

Edit: Errors with the pictures meaning no pictures for you. Sorry!

Fifth thought:

Spoiler

Everything seemed ok afterwards and I can't complain much more (hang on, we're getting there). But after more rooms are cleared, you get in a usable teleporter room. If you step in, you fall on an entirely different place with the last 100 monsters of the map (it is all full of marble, wood and lava), which is not too irrelevant I should say, as a theme. There I shall fix some annoyingly placed platforms. And afterwards you can find a whole in the ground. If you fall there, you will get to the final arena. There you face off against 4 Cybies (they come at three waves, 1-1-2) using the plasma rifle, since the author doesn't give you a BFG openly (I don't know about the rest two secrets of the maps and I will find them soon). And guess what. The ammo is again not enough to kill em all. So you have to leave them alive, press the required switches and exit the map, before eating a rocket to the face. CELLS NEEDED HERE, especially if you want to 100% the map. Other than that, I can leave the plasma rifle, instead of a BFG, since it makes the battle with the Cybies more tense.

Conclusion:

Spoiler

As I see it, the map is well-crafted, in its visual aspect, so I won't have trouble in that. The problem for one more time is the gameplay. The author based his map on heavy ammo starvation, chainsawing and possibly running away from monster encounters, as you always seem to run out of ammo. My primary target for now, is to make the map finish-able, with 100% monsters and reduce the difficulty a bit (I will now cautiously add some ammo here and there, while removing some Revs that make the player's life harder than it should be and don't add gameplay points). However, I will keep the rest of the monsters untouched (they can be dealt with, even in the most hardcore traps) and the chainsawing in many rooms, especially that one with the ambush, since it is the spirit of the map and changing it, would make it feel totally alien, to the beginning concept of the map. Note that the monster count, should stay above 550, in my opinion, as it was originally 600 to 620 and anywhere below 550, would probably resemble more of a walk in the park.

 

So, in case you didn't understand, my main question is:

Is ammo starvation considered a map's spirit, just like when Terry wads have ear-rapes and bad words, or when a map revolves around puzzles? And is it an ok style to keep? I basically think it can be kept, in smaller doses that is, so that the player doesn't get bored (maybe this map will be one of the last in the wad we will create). 

Suggestions are again welcome, although I think that I'm already close to finding the ideal changes I will apply in the map.

Edited by ShotgunDemolition

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14 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

1) The player may get bored this way. Can I change some more of these chainsaw heavy rooms (not all, just some) or delete them, as from a point and after, the map feels like a drag (it must take 30 minutes at the very least, for a casual player, to play this map)?

Having players slow down a bit on occasion to make for a change of pace isn't too bad from my point of view as long as it doesn't drag on for -what feels like- minutes of chainsawing. What's important here is there is a proper contrast that players can understand.

 

16 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

2) Do you think the chainsaw here is visible enough or should I make it more in the players face?

The chainsaw is placed near these pumps which act as kind of a detail, so I think it's likely to be seen already, other than that there's nothing wrong with making players look for weapons and ammo.

 

18 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

The Rocket Launcher secret, I made at the beginning wasn't really needed, since the author gives an RL later on (not that much hidden I guess) and I will have to destroy it. DAMN IT!!!

The point of secrets is that they're optional, but they help you for some amount of time when you find them. Since rockets are being handed out early in the map whereas the RL comes a bit later, I can see that secret still being useful. But it's your call to make... Also in stead of deleting the secret as a whole, consider putting something else inside that may help players, like a berserk-pack or so...

 

22 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

After a couple of rooms, there is a room where if you open the door, the action is IN YOUR FACE and there is no way you can survive that, unless you have died here before and know what is where

I've heard this quite a few times by now and relatively often this turned out to be an overstatement. Since I can't tell what the situation is like, there's not much I can say here though...

 

24 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

You seriously need to camp in the nearby tiny room

If this turns into a door-camp scenario I would suggest changing the setup or providing ample firepower to get it over with quickly.

 

27 minutes ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Is ammo starvation considered a map's spirit

It is something I would consider a deliberate design choice. Tight ammo balancing, or forcing players into tyson-mode for certain parts are commonly known tropes that some people enjoy and others don't. The question is wether or not it is executed properly. In my opinion, you should make sure the players need to use their weapons with a modicum of thought, by providing just enough ammo to get by, however you should also make sure there is an occasional shortage so players need to use their heads for a change. Note that ammo-starvation and terrywads aren't something that have anything to do with one another...

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

But it's your call to make... Also in stead of deleting the secret as a whole, consider putting something else inside that may help players, like a berserk-pack or so...

You are right on that one and thanks for reminding me what a secret should do. There was the answer I needed all along.  :-)

I now decided I'll keep it with both a Berserk and an RL, in case someone still doesn't find the chainsaw (ok, I know, that will be highly unlikely, but just to be sure).

27 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If this turns into a door-camp scenario I would suggest changing the setup or providing ample firepower to get it over with quickly.

I think it isn't for that long, so I may keep it as is and give it a few more runs to see how it goes. 

By the way, the teleporter in that room worked perfectly, at the most suitable time, so it will most likely be one of the last things I will fix (if it functions consistently in my next tests, then I may as well keep it). However, another teleporter, near the end, was slow and ineffective, instead of working properly, so it will definitely need changing.

36 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

It is something I would consider a deliberate design choice. Tight ammo balancing, or forcing players into tyson-mode for certain parts are commonly known tropes that some people enjoy and others don't.

Ok then. It seems I will search more for that perfect balance between the two.

37 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Note that ammo-starvation and terrywads aren't something that have anything to do with one another...

Yes, they are nothing alike, but I tried to compare them in terms of infuriating the player. I am not really experienced with seeing tyson style, in maps I played so far and I basically wasn't sure if this map's remake would be liked by everybody or suit only an elite few of players, with its tyson spirit.

But the key word here, was once again <<balance>>. I now understand that with balanced gameplay, equally consisting of gunplay and tyson, it can be a good map, if executed properly that is. Besides, if it is only for some well thought tyson sections in the map, I don't think the player would get bored or angry. Again, thanks for the help!!! Now I can finally continue with the map. :-) 

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I'd be happy to redo my first slaughtermap I ever published

so put me down for a map

I'd also be happy to do any slade compiling and dehacked work

I have quite a bit of experience with slade

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43 minutes ago, Outrageous Videos said:

I'd be happy to redo my first slaughtermap I ever published

so put me down for a map

I'd also be happy to do any slade compiling and dehacked work

I have quite a bit of experience with slade

Looks like we got our first slaughtermap for this project as far as I'm aware. ;-)

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Not related to the project, but I always wondered why the maintainers don't want mappers to send in maps in slot 7, 30, secrets slots etc.

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11 minutes ago, Voros said:

Not related to the project, but I always wondered why the maintainers don't want mappers to send in maps in slot 7, 30, secrets slots etc.

of course there will be maps in these slots, but people shouldn't build their maps in these slots and use the kill-triggers there, because there's no telling in which slot the finished maps will end up. So, to avoid issues with several people wanting to use the features of these slots, these are taken out of the equation to make sure there's no arguing about these etc...

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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I hope no body minds that I have this month taken over by exams so I won't really start working until this month is over, and mostly during that, if anything, I could be experimenting with some concepts I keep cooking up.

 

For example, if I would include backtracking, I should try out and make a off-the-map teleporter "hub" with each teleporting station gradually unlocking as "dungeons" are completed.

 

Also, for those already moaning, do not fret, the dungeons are completely optional, and I guess only a mini dungeon should really be neccesary, other than that, yeah, I imagined for this to be a "filler map", like " What does the Doomguy do when he is not raiding a facility or trying to save the world? Also, how does he get over from one map to the another?"

 

That will be all for now.

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5 minutes ago, Battle_Kirby said:

I hope no body minds that I have this month taken over by exams so I won't really start working until this month is over, and mostly during that, if anything, I could be experimenting with some concepts I keep cooking up.

The deadline is there for a reason, you're free to map at your leisure.

 

6 minutes ago, Battle_Kirby said:

For example, if I would include backtracking, I should try out and make a off-the-map teleporter "hub" with each teleporting station gradually unlocking as "dungeons" are completed.

Either teleports, or repopulate the map, or a combination of both... just some ideas..

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This whole project is designed around boom compatibility correct?

Because a hub system is zdoom only

Edited by Outrageous Videos

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1 hour ago, Outrageous Videos said:

This whole project is designed around boom compatibility correct?

Because a hub system is zdoom only

They will all be on the same map duuuh! Plus, you do not need a separate map to make a small teleporter hub.

 

Think of it as Fallout 1,2 without loading screens and fast travelling on the world map. Plus the world map is a heckuva lot tinier.

 

And if I wanted to use the hub system as people know it, I would expand it into 9 maps, and each of these maps would be fucking huge, to make a proper game world :D

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4 hours ago, Outrageous Videos said:

This whole project is designed around boom compatibility correct?

That is correct.

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So, after being a bit indecisive as to what I would want to overhaul, I finally made up my mind and chose "The Hell Cave".

 

 

Some background:

 

-This wad, intended for use with limit removing ports, was uploaded to the archives on 09/18/10 and features about 2300 monsters on UV-difficulty, not counting AV revives. It starts out small, but soon ventures into slaughter territory.

 

-The textures were kept purely vanilla, which I intend to stick to as well for the purpose of this overhaul.

 

-This wad has been "overhauled" once already, and after some retexturing along with ridiculous enemy placement and a generally brutal start, found its way into map slot 21 of the infamous "chillax", at which point it was dubbed "enter the maelstrom", if memory serves.

 

 

Why did I choose this map?

 

Personally, I don't think this is a genuinely bad map all things considered, but it does have a mechanical flaw which can keep players from completing the map, that needs fixing.

 

The opening of this map is annoyingly tedious, which threw quite a lot of people off the wagon, if the comments written by people who gave a rather negative rating are any indication. Shotgunning a few midtiers isn't too bad, but this map is overdoing it by making players shotgun mostly through hell knights, cacos, demons and even a few barons of hell. Eventhough the map features 4 secrets, not a single one of those makes the opening more pleasant. Granted, you can try skipping past some of the fiends, or create small infights in a few cases to make the opening a bit more interesting, but in general it's "shotgun what's ahead, move one, repeat" for too long. Also, we're not talking super-shotgun here, we're talking bog-standard pump-action combat shotgunning....

 

That aside, some of the later sections didn't age very well difficulty wise. On top of that, this map features several visual themes which you transition between, but unfortunately these transitions are very abrupt, so I will put some effort into making things a lot smoother in regards to this as well.

 

Here's the map overview which provides a pretty good idea about where themes change, for example. Also the size of this map is not too shabby, so there's quite a lot of stuff that can be worked with or improved on.

helcv.jpg.1349126b4d1631de046d39424ffc7f9c.jpg

This is going to take a bit of time, all things considered, but I really think this map deserves some more attention in general, so that's another reason I'm going for the overhaul as well.

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Cool, can't wait to see what you do with this! :-)

 

3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

This wad... features about 2300 monsters on UV-difficulty, not counting AV revives. It starts out small, but soon ventures into slaughter territory.

Uh, what's your idea of not "starting out small"? :-P

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8 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said:

Uh, what's your idea of not "starting out small"? :-P

If you look at the overview, you see a room that looks a bit like an "X". That is where you start. The bigger room right next to the large red area that also acts as a hub is where things finally get interesting. If you kill everything on your way there, you have lots of corridor shooting mid-tiers that come from one direction only, and all you get is the shotgun to work with. So, unless you skip past things, the opening can take quite a bit of time, most of which you're going to spend in very cramped corridors. So that's how the map starts small.

 

Obviously the opening won't change dramatically in terms of theme and surroundings, but that pacing is a problem.

Edited by Nine Inch Heels
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Ah, I see. I thought you meant that the original 2300 monsters was "small", but AV revives made it "slaughterey." Don't mind me...

 

Making a slaughtermap sounds like a load of fun! Maybe if I finish the Nazi base with enough time left over...

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I actually did a remake of that map a long time ago

can't wait to see yours

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Quick update:

The map seems to be more playable now. It can even be finished, which is quite a good start I think. At least I can finish it, knowing where everything is located (I still forget sometimes, due to the map's size). I will be unable to edit it more, before the 16th of this month due to the exams (FINALLY), but I have progressed quite a bit.

 

What remains is:

  1. Merging two sectors, because I deleted one by accident and tried remaking it. (any idea how someone does that?)
  2. Removing some shotgun shells and bullets from the map, because, by the end, I had like 70 shells and 200 something bullets (that platforming section gives tons of shotgun shells, with its 50 Sergeants).
  3. Adding just one more cell pack in the end battle and removing some rocket boxes, due to having to fight two Cyberdemons in a somewhat limited space.
  4. Optimizing the difficulties, where needed.
  5. Remaking the teleporters, when I learn how to do those, without merging sectors (I will search it, after the 16th)
  6. Minor detailing. (I think it looks perfect already, to be honest)
  7. Possibly deleting some rooms or merging them with others, if I get bored of them, after countless times of testing (nothing like this, so far).

P.S.: The other time I played the map, I reached by the end and I saw the monster count, with 20 alive demons. I was like: <<How did I even miss, not one, not two, but apparently 20 demons???>> It turns out that I didn't kill everything in the maze before (not that big of a maze and you can kill everything in it, without running out of ammo, but I usually took the right route, from what I remembered). Sometimes, I wonder how dumb I can get.

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2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Merging two sectors, because I deleted one by accident and tried remaking it. (any idea how someone does that?)

"Any idea how it's possible do delete a sector on accident?" or "Any idea on how to merge sectors?" Also, "merging sectors" is actually a mapping term that does not necessarily have something to do with making two sectors share the same linedef as a "border". That being said, I am slightly confused as to what you want to say here, sorry. ;-)

 

2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Removing some shotgun shells and bullets from the map, because, by the end, I had like 70 shells and 200 something bullets (that platforming section gives tons of shotgun shells, with its 50 Sergeants).

Since this map is quite lengthy, ending up with a surplus of low-tier ammunition is nothing unusual. If you're gonna cut back on ammo, make sure that ammo-supply for when you want for players to be able to use guns, is placed according to what is ahead.

 

2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Adding just one more cell pack in the end battle and removing some rocket boxes, due to having to fight two Cyberdemons in a somewhat limited space.

Removing shells to then later add higher tier ammo sounds a bit like you are going to make the final encounter easier, from my point of view. Since I haven't laid hands on what's going on currently, I obviously can't judge, so this is mostly a random thought that came up after thinking about ammo distribution a bit.

 

2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Remaking the teleporters, when I learn how to do those, without merging sectors (I will search it, after the 16th)

If you refer to teleports that are there for players to use, you do not need to merge any sectors to begin with. You need give the linedef from where the teleport should happen, as well as the target sector with the teleport-destination-thing in it the same tag, so the game engine knows they "belong together". When that is done, make sure all the linedefs of the sector that contains the teleport destination are arranged with their frontside towards the teleport destination. I can tell for a fact you have working examples in your map already, since I've had it open in an editor myself. So this shouldn't be too complicated. In case there's actual problems, let me know.

 

If you are talking about monster batteries outside of the playable area, that is where you need to merge sectors to make sure things in the batteries can "hear" you, so they start moving and thus cross the teleporter linedef. If you have any problem setting this up and getting the timing right, which also involves the use of sound-block-linedefs, let me know.

 

2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Minor detailing. (I think it looks perfect already, to be honest)

Screenie or didn't happen ;-)

 

Other than that, don't start detailing until the map is fine from a mechanical point as well as from a gameplay point of view. Can't stress this enough... Detailing is more or less one of the last things you should be doing.

 

2 hours ago, ShotgunDemolition said:

Possibly deleting some rooms or merging them with others, if I get bored of them, after countless times of testing (nothing like this, so far).

Keep in mind that there are some rules to this. Don't delete/connect rooms willy-nilly "just because". If you run a map 50 times or more, eventually something will be "too familiar", which impacts how you perceive your map. That's why testing is a pain in the ass at times. Note that when it comes to testing, there are relatively objective conclusions you can make (Lack/abundancy of health/ammo, intrusive architecture among other things), and relatively subjective conclusions (difficulty is high up there alongside a preference for certain aesthetics) on the other hand. If you need "a fresh test subject" when your map works properly, there's no reason not put a "beta" of it up here, so people can have a look and provide feedback. Feedback = really freaking important.

Edited by Nine Inch Heels
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1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you are talking about monster batteries outside of the playable area, that is where you need to merge sectors to make sure things in the batteries can "hear" you, so they start moving and thus cross the teleporter linedef. If you have any problem setting this up and getting the timing right, which also involves the use of sound-block-linedefs, let me know.

That is what I meant by merging sectors. I basically deleted a sector that contained monsters for a teleport ambush (some Revs), because I thought it didn't work properly, as I didn't see the Revs teleport, in the place I expected them to. In fact, they teleported elsewhere in the map (didn't see that) and to kill them, I could use the shotgun meaning lowered shotgun shells, as I intended. So, I need to know how can I make two sectors have the same sounds (hope it makes sense now).

 

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Since this map is quite lengthy, ending up with a surplus of low-tier ammunition is nothing unusual. If you're gonna cut back on ammo, make sure that ammo-supply for when you want for players to be able to use guns, is placed according to what is ahead.

Yes, low tier ammo is enough for each encounter, but I may leave it as is, now that I think about it again, because I can't expect the player to pull the chainsaw instinctively, whenever it is possible to use it (that is what I did, since map knowledge). The player might even kill some Pinkies with the SSG. (I will see about that, when I release a demo here and wait, as you said, for feedback).

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Removing shells to then later add higher tier ammo sounds a bit like you are going to make the final encounter easier, from my point of view. Since I haven't laid hands on what's going on currently, I obviously can't judge, so this is mostly a random thought that came up after thinking about ammo distribution a bit

Well, I didn't think of those as action-reaction. I was just troubled, about the remaining low tier ammo, at the end (now that is solved).

As for the cells, trust me, I can say they are needed, because to kill the 2 Cyberdemons, that teleport simultaneously, you most likely have 180 cells, remaining at your disposal (in the last 2 tests I ran, it was like this and I will run more of these). So, the next weapon you can use, when out of cells, is the RL (bad idea, because small arena, splash damage everywhere) and then you can go with the Chaingun and the SSG (pain in the ass). And all this time, you have to dodge Cyberdemons rockets, while avoiding to be near the walls, because splash damage.

Here is a pic of the arena:

(Error -200 Couldn't process image)

For f**k's sake with those images!!!

But trust me in this one, it is probably as I describe it and you will be able to see it, once I send a demo.

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Screenie or didn't happen ;-)

I will post some really soon (have to open the game or fiddle around with the editor and both require some time, so, it is a negative at this moment) and yes, the detailing will be left at the end, which is why I placed that at number 6 in the list.

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you need "a fresh test subject" when your map works properly, there's no reason not put a "beta" of it up here, so people can have a look and provide feedback. Feedback = really freaking important.

Ok, I will send the wad here in the future, for testing and probably leave it as is now, until I have something more to work with, except from my point of view. Right now I will be looking at my exams and on fixing the ammo things, that I mentioned above. 

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On 6.6.2017 at 8:19 PM, ShotgunDemolition said:

So, I need to know how can I make two sectors have the same sounds (hope it makes sense now).

Basically, you can use your bog-standard "battery" that has a teleport linedef in it. An easy way to do this is once the the teleport destination and the battery are both in place, would be to attach a small box or triangle to the battery which then is a sector of its own.

 

When your battery has what is going to be its "ear" to the outside world, you activate sector mode in your editor of choice, and mark the sector in the playable area first, and "the ear of your battery" second. Important: Playable area first!!

 

In sector mode, there should be an option in the toolbar that reads "sectors". With both sectors marked (again, the order is REALLY important) you click "merge sectors", and you've turned two sectors into one, more or less.

 

Now that that's done, you want to start using block-sound linedefs to make sure things don't "hear" you too early. Sound in doom always passes through one block-sound linedef, but never through 2, so you may want to make the linedef of your boxes' "ear" a block sound linedef as well as the linedefs around a certain area in which you want monsters in the box to react.

 

That's a very basic-ish way of explaining things. If it doesn't work, I can provide pictures for a step-by-step approach, or you can look at the vanilla editing tutorials made by Linguica, since he also covers this topic and there' also pictures there already. ;-)

 

On 6.6.2017 at 8:19 PM, ShotgunDemolition said:

Yes, low tier ammo is enough for each encounter, but I may leave it as is, now that I think about it again, because I can't expect the player to pull the chainsaw instinctively, whenever it is possible to use it (that is what I did, since map knowledge).

If you want for players to understand that fists/chainsaw are to be used, you need to make sure to clue them into this by keeping them low on ammo while also providing a hint towards tyson style gameplay, by putting players in a mildly orchestrated situation in which they realize "Oooh, I gotta make use of 'melee' when I can, so I don't end up with no ammo". Basically, try making the player understand what the overall situation is, by setting the tone accordingly, clearly and early.

Edited by Nine Inch Heels
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I figured it might be a good idea to start working on that behemoth of a map that I chose. Since I'm not feeling too well at the moment, I don't have the nerve to do lots of gameplay testing, so that's for later. Instead I chose to work on the starting room that doesn't have any gameplay in it, so I can spend some laid-back time with detailing. Here's a before:

helcavr2.jpg.22768aa55d3611d12108da18045b6536.jpg

 

And here's the same spot after some early detailing:

helcav2.jpg.08f830184a72a4e3167be28d64cda93b.jpg

 

I've also worked in an additional secret which contains a chaingun. Try finding it in less than 30 seconds. ;-) Here's the download:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/udjrnwkfzu7v9l9/boomcav.zip?dl=0

 

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18 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Since I'm not feeling too well at the moment

Aw, that's a bummer. Hope you get to feeling better soon!

 

18 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Here's a before:

helcavr2.jpg.22768aa55d3611d12108da18045b6536.jpg

 

And here's the same spot after some early detailing:

helcav2.jpg.08f830184a72a4e3167be28d64cda93b.jpg

 

Looks great!

 

And I was all proud of myself 'cuz I made a blocky-looking tower with a chaingunner on it today!

 

What the heck!? I'm trying to upload an image, and getting "error -200." >:-\ Oh well, it was nothing impressive...

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Sorry, I forgot to reply back, due to the schedule. Anyways:

On 6/6/2017 at 9:42 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

*Teleportation*

That's a lot of detail! It is going to be the first thing I check out, now that you took the time to write it for me. Thanks again! :)

On 6/6/2017 at 9:42 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

If you want for players to understand that fists/chainsaw are to be used, you need to make sure to clue them into this by keeping them low on ammo while also providing a hint towards tyson style gameplay, by putting players in a mildly orchestrated situation in which they realize "Oooh, I gotta make use of 'melee' when I can, so I don't end up with no ammo". Basically, try making the player understand what the overall situation is, by setting the tone accordingly, clearly and early.

Hmmm...I could do that, at the start and let the player get more ammo, after the first chainsaw-cleared room. This way the player will know what to expect from the beginning. I mean I know the map contains a corridor early on, that has only Spectres, so I will make sure to give a bit less shells than needed, in case I wanted to clear it with guns.

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1 hour ago, 42PercentHealth said:

What the heck!? I'm trying to upload an image, and getting "error -200." >:-\ Oh well, it was nothing impressive...

It seems I am not the only one here.  :D

And it is so random, when the site decides to say that.

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For those getting the -200 error, try to make the picture a jpg (to reduce size of the file)

 

It also helps if the internet connection is stable.

 

Also a valuable protip of same value: Shoot the Cyberdemon until it dies.

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