How easily do you reconcile playing good wads by asshole authors?

[cacomonkey]

I saw a comment on the Doom wad review site that mention how good a certain series of wads was but that the author was kind of a distasteful creep (my opinion not his), who applauded Putin imprisoning a russian riot grrrl band with a colorful description of how they should be physically tortured.  As we know, some of the most talented artists and authors in history were great artists but assholes in their private lives, like Hemingway, Picasso, and many others.  Yet, we still enjoy their works.  How easily do you reconcile enjoying playing the wads of authors with politics, opinions and attitudes that you may consider quite unsavory or downright disturbing?  I remember refusing to watch any Victor Salva film after his legal troubles but have eventually enjoyed the Jeepers Creepers films despite that unusually creepy opening scene in Jeepers Creepers 2 with the little boy being stalked by the creeper in the cornfield who swoops down on him to deliver him unto death.  It was a good horror film (or entertaining at least) by a director who perhaps should be nicknamed The Creeper himself.

[galileo31dos01]

To be honest I don't care about who made X map or X wad, I just play them and try to have a good time. What the real person behind a great wad could be like it's non of my business, I judge the creation not the creator (in this case of course). It would be different if I happen to read creepy disturbing stuff about the author before getting the wad, in this case I would think about it two or three times before.

 

 

[Graf Zahl]

I only remember one asshole actor who was actually capable of mapping. No I won't name him, but his mapping skills were definitely way above average and he made some really good maps.

 

[silentzorah]

I treat wads the same way I treat products at the store.  If I don't like the creator, I keep it to myself, and just don't play their stuff.  It's probably better, that way.

[Bauul]

1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

I only remember one asshole actor who was actually capable of mapping.

How many non-asshole actors do you know who can map?

 

Is there like a secret cabal of Hollywood stars who make doom maps in their spare time?  ;)

[Phade102]

I play wads for the quality, not the person who made it. If the person is an asshole, good for them. I wont communicate with them directly.

[Memfis]

Depends on how old the drama is and how personally I take it. The Harris wads just make me curious because that stuff is old and doesn't really concern me. Playing a map by someone I dislike and see posting everywhere is an entirely different story. Although it's usually just me being capricious rather than the author being an asshole.

[Roofi]

Whether it's for music, movies, maps, I do not care about the author's personality. However , if it impacts greatly the work, yes.

[hardcore_gamer]

You would have to be a giant pussy to give a shit about something like this. Like who fucking cares? A piece of entertainment is a piece of entertainment. People need to grow a thicker skin. Should I just stop playing Brutal Doom because it was made by an asshole? Why?

[Ribbiks]

I think it's different for media like film or books where after learning about some contentious aspect of the author's life you can start examining how it might've permeated their artistic endeavors, which may be interesting, or may just be wasted time. I'm not sure to what degree stuff like that can work its way into doom mods (maps almost certainly not much, heavier gameplay mods, maybe?).

[Battle_Korbi]

I guess I dont care, seeing how much am I enjoying my own wads.

 

^{SELF HUMOR +200 POINTS}

[Bauul]

13 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

You would have to be a giant pussy to give a shit about something like this. Like who fucking cares? 

On the other hand, is it even possible to play something like UAC Labs and not be conscious of who made it?

[40oz]

it seems kinda vindictive not to separate a person from their creations.

[hardcore_gamer]

1 hour ago, Bauul said:

On the other hand, is it even possible to play something like UAC Labs and not be conscious of who made it?

If I knew a famous serial killer made a doom wad I would be even more interested in playing it.

[Benjogami]

In some kinds of art, I think feeling a connection to the creator and their ideas is a large component of the enjoyment. I think it matters less in Doom than in other forms.

 

Analogy: suppose someone is extremely physically attractive to you and you wanna fuck em, but then you discover that they have a repulsive personality, and the idea of sex with them also becomes repulsive. It's kinda like that. So yeah, maybe Roman Polanski makes great movies, but I don't really care to watch them. It's not because I have a moral problem with enjoying art by shitty people. I simply don't enjoy it, because my awareness of their shittiness is burdensome to my experience.

[Doomkid]

In Doom wads, not really.. But if the wad sucks, my negative feedback will be more scathing. That's about as far as it goes though, I've never stopped myself from giving something a try just because it was made by a douche.

[Phade102]

2 hours ago, Bauul said:

On the other hand, is it even possible to play something like UAC Labs and not be conscious of who made it?

Its... intriguing. its a look into the mid of someone who commited such a heinous crime.

[yakfak]

yeah i'm not going to play deus vult

[leodoom85]

Only map quality matters for me. If the author is an asshole, it's his/her problem and I don't care.

[Cackledemon]

When I was younger, my parents drilled it into my head that ultraviolent video games, especially first person ones, were BAD and DANGEROUS and MADE YOUR TEETH GO YELLOW. I didn't mind this; I was just happy with my Nintendo games. I was shocked at how many parents allowed their young children to play M-rated shooters.

 

And, well, now I'm playing Doom. It seems quaintly tame by today's standards, but it still was sort of a coming-of-age moment when I first switched on the original ultraviolent computer game. I've already set aside a good number of ethical reservations by playing this game. I know that sounds kind of quaint, but I really did unspook myself by playing the game. Even the content of the WADs seems like a foolish reason not to play them to me.

 

In short: play good wads. Invoke the Death of the Author if it makes you more comfortable, but don't stress over the twisted mind from which the wad came. You're already twisted to some degree by taking pleasure in simulated slaughter in the first place.

 

Quote

If I knew a famous serial killer made a doom wad I would be even more interested in playing it.

This, definitely.

[Ed]

That Russian wad that was essentially just torture porn was pretty reprehensible.   Maybe the game-play was great, I don't know.  If the author is so much of an asshole that their assholery directly affects the end product than it could probably be too distracting to enjoy.

[Koko Ricky]

I tend to separate artist from art. I'm not too concerned about their private lives, even when they're unsavory individuals whose dirty laundry becomes public. At the same time, one has to eventually draw a line in the sand. For instance, I absolutely will not play the Colombine boys' wads. Now, from what I can tell they're nothing remarkable, but let's say they were incredible works of art and gameplay. I'd still decline from checking them out, because these were deranged killers. I mean that's just too much, you know? But then there's Sgt. Mark, who has come under fire for things he's said on forums, and the whole Patreon thing. I don't really care about that. Small potatoes, in my book. So essentially, once someone's actions reach a certain level of heinousness, their art is simply not worth supporting. But it's kind of a case-by-case thing.

[Da Werecat]

I wouldn't call the entire wad torture porn, but that one scene was pretty out of place. Although what made it extra creepy was the author's explanation. Before that it was still possible to think of it as an attempt to invoke shock and sadness from the player - maybe distasteful, but not malicious.

[Ed]

"some women do deserve tortures, and Pussy Riot are the first candidates on it."

[Voros]

IMO, it doesn't matter if the author is an asshole or not. If the author keeps his/her assholery out of their maps, I'm fine with it. Let's say a mapper hates Trump a lot, and every map made the person always has some "I Hate Trump" thing in it, that's when it might become.unacceptable for me, because the mapper is unable to control his feelings, bringing them into his/her hobbies, lifestyle, etc.

Of course, controversy contributes to curiousity. If UAC Labs was made by a mentally healthy person, it would be just like every other map out there. But sadly, it wasn't made by such a person, and since this map is something he made, people would be intrigued to try it out, usually to understand how the mapper's mind worked. I know I would.

So yeah. Keep your crap out of your map.

[Da Werecat]

Well, if your crap is disguised to the point of being unrecognizable, then why not. Channel your rage, etc.

 

Or angst, if you're making a Lainos map.

[Lila Feuer]

I've realized that ever since getting into social media circa 2010 and onward that not everybody that's well known online for doing something is going to be this super cool amazing godlike person and that holy shit everyone's a human being and we're all flawed in some way or another.

Yeah I've seen some people who I won't name in the Doom community alone whom I enjoyed their creations over the years, never knowing their forum presence, and had learned later on they had shitty opinions on some things, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the content they've made and I look forward to future stuff by them still.

E: So long as they keep their shitty opinions out of their works like Voros said above I don't have to deal with that side of the person unless I go out my way to look for it, of which will be my own loss.

[geo]

People seem to hate Sgt Mark IV. I haven't seen why he's hated beyond taking things without credit, but I love Brutal Doom. I enjoy Fez. I wrote a good review about Fez. It had hundreds of upvotes on Steam until people decided they hate Phil Fish. Now it has downvotes enough to overcome the positive. Then there's that Zoey Quinn. I reviewed her game. A straight review without talking about any drama and the comments section turned into a cesspool of hate.

 

I tend to review just the games rather than the developers or their drama. Its caused people to tell me I need to make a time capsule of everything and talk about what surrounds the games rather than just the game. Personally that just fluffs out a 1,400 word limit. Some reviews need fluff, but I think people just want to know why a game is good or bad which is why I try to summarize it all in a mere opening statement. The review is for my own closure.

 

Yet in person I won't deal with an asshole. I won't work with them, I won't work for them, I won't associate myself with them. It makes life so much easier and less dramatic if you avoid them. People have told me that avoiding assholes creates more drama... because then I look like the asshole, but whatever.

Edited June 6, 2017 by geo

[CARRiON]

The only time this bothers me for some reason is with music. If I know a musician is a scummy fucking person it taints my view of their music. Everything else though it just doesn't bother me as much. I don't know.

 

I used to enjoy listening to the band As I Lay Dying, but then the vocalist went to prison for trying to hire a hitman to kill his wife. Ehhhh... don't really care to listen to that band anymore.

[kb1]

11 hours ago, cacomonkey said:

I saw a comment on the Doom wad review site that mention how good a certain series of wads was but that the author was kind of a distasteful creep (my opinion not his), who applauded Putin imprisoning a russian riot grrrl band with a colorful description of how they should be physically tortured.  As we know, some of the most talented artists and authors in history were great artists but assholes in their private lives, like Hemingway, Picasso, and many others.  Yet, we still enjoy their works.  How easily do you reconcile enjoying playing the wads of authors with politics, opinions and attitudes that you may consider quite unsavory or downright disturbing?  I remember refusing to watch any Victor Salva film after his legal troubles but have eventually enjoyed the Jeepers Creepers films despite that unusually creepy opening scene in Jeepers Creepers 2 with the little boy being stalked by the creeper in the cornfield who swoops down on him to deliver him unto death.  It was a good horror film (or entertaining at least) by a director who perhaps should be nicknamed The Creeper himself.

Yes, I sometimes feel the same way - it can be difficult to reconcile. See below.

 

7 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

You would have to be a giant pussy to give a shit about something like this. Like who fucking cares? A piece of entertainment is a piece of entertainment. People need to grow a thicker skin. Should I just stop playing Brutal Doom because it was made by an asshole? Why?

For me, it's not about thick skin. Enjoying a free work...maybe not. But by buying someone's movie, talking about it (free advertising), etc., you are supporting that asshole, in one way or another. Especially if the asshole is an actor/actress, I think twice about giving them my hard-earned money for royalties, when they are using their fame (and my support) to continue to spread their brand of crap everywhere. There are some actors I cannot even watch anymore, 'cause I cannot get the image of what they do out of my mind enough to suspend belief long enough to enjoy their wares. I actually don't want to enjoy anything they do, which probably is my loss, but I'm ok with that.

 

Edit: It really depends on what the person did/does. For example, Sgt Mark IV made some distasteful comments a few years back. It seemed to me like he was trying to be funny, in a naive, childish way, that turned out to, instead, be hurtful. As long as that type of thing doesn't persist, I can typically see past it - we all make mistakes, afterall. But these "famous people" who talk down to the "unwashed masses" can go elsewhere (which is a nice way to put it).

Edited June 6, 2017 by kb1