How easily do you reconcile playing good wads by asshole authors?

[Kontra Kommando]

I don't think it should matter. Because then you're not really judging them on their work, but for something totally unrelated. Nevertheless, sometimes its hard to remove the stigma attached to people.

 

Dave Chappelle sort of talks about this on one of his latest comedy specials, in regards to Bill Cosby.

 

 

[Pirx]

does not concern me. i'm playing a map, not with a person.

[Arctangent]

9 hours ago, Voros said:

IMO, it doesn't matter if the author is an asshole or not. If the author keeps his/her assholery out of their maps, I'm fine with it. Let's say a mapper hates Trump a lot, and every map made the person always has some "I Hate Trump" thing in it, that's when it might become.unacceptable for me, because the mapper is unable to control his feelings, bringing them into his/her hobbies, lifestyle, etc.

... Why would you not put your feelings into your hobbies or lifestyle? I can't imagine how hobbies even work without feelings, because then ... how would you know what your hobbies even are, or why you enjoy them?

 

9 hours ago, Voros said:

So yeah. Keep your crap out of your map.

You might want to give up all forms up human-made entertainment, then, because a person's politics leak into everything.

 

Yes, even with "pure gameplay" maps. Because those put on full display what the author considers "full gameplay" and what's important to the gameplay of Doom or whatever game you're playing.

[Cackledemon]

Yeah, people's politics leak into everything, but there are ways not to be obnoxious about it. That said, I've yet to see a wad that I've had to put down because of politics.

[Maisth]

I Feel like putting personal stuff into your creation will serve as nothing but hate

[kb1]

11 hours ago, Maisth said:

I Feel like putting personal stuff into your creation will serve as nothing but hate

Hate gets a bad rap these days. Everyone's got it, even if you simply hate hate.

Politics leak. Unfortunately, many people don't even really have solid views. Instead, many people align with others they admire. Thing is, no political stance is right all the time, or wrong all the time. Every situation is unique, and the complete set of a person's views are unique to that person.

 

That's what makes polarizing political stances so vile to hear. We should verify that each thing we hit with the hammer is, in fact, a nail. I find it ignorant when the specifics of individual situations are glossed over, then rubber stamped. To avoid this ugliness takes wisdom, empathy, and usually some experience with hardship. People that possess these qualities are usually worth listening to.

 

But not when I want to be entertained! Shut up, and let me enjoy my map, album, or movie! Or, maybe I'll go find my entertainment elsewhere, right? :)

 

[Arctangent]

Maybe once we get entertainment creating robots, but otherwise you're kinda stuck with no other options.

 

Hell, if those robots end up thinking in a similar way that humans do, even those won't provide you sanctuary from politics in your entertainment.

[Doomkid]

On 6/7/2017 at 0:01 AM, Arctangent said:

[...]

 

a person's politics leak into everything.

 

Yes, even with "pure gameplay" maps. Because those put on full display what the author considers "full gameplay" and what's important to the gameplay of Doom or whatever game you're playing.

(Let me just preface my post with this: This discussion is purely about semantics)

 

I'd say sensibilities is a better word for it than politics. If you play all my maps, you'll get an excellent idea of what I like in Doom, but that doesn't necessarily have any relation to my politics, or even my sensibilities within other games: All that can realistically be brought away from your experience is "so that's what Doomkid likes in a map".

 

For instance - My Doom maps are generally basic in terms of detail and feature stark contrasting bright and dark areas. That tells you nothing about how I generally make Mario maps, which conversely feature almost exclusively bright scenery, tells even less about how I'd design a house and, realistically, tells you absolutely nothing about my various stances on social and political issues. With even the logical inferences such as "ah, Doomkid likes dark areas based on his Doom maps" being totally wrong outside the world of Doom, that shows just how little can be inferred about ones politics.

 

Edit:

 

13 hours ago, Maisth said:

I Feel like putting personal stuff into your creation will serve as nothing but hate

Oh, I don't know about that now. I've put little hidden computer terminals in my maps that say "smoke weed" or other stupid crap like that. They're just little easter eggs and they certainly tell you something about me/my politics, but it's just meant to be a goofy little hidden thingy, certainly not intended to have any 'emotional weight' or whatever tied to it. It's a a joke, a goof, a meme, whatever you want to call it - a dumb little thing purely for lols.

 

This is an aside, but I feel like people are often reading too deeply into things that just aren't there and spinning whole crazy theories/assumptions/what have you based on it and I feel like that's becoming more and more common over the years. Maybe that's just me reading too deeply into people reading too deeply into stuff, though..

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Doomkid

[Jaxxoon R]

I can overlook it long enough to playtest my own.

[cacomonkey]

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Oh, I don't know about that now. I've put little hidden computer terminals in my maps that say "smoke weed" or other stupid crap like that. They're just little easter eggs and they certainly tell you something about me/my politics, but it's just meant to be a goofy little hidden thingy, certainly not intended to have any 'emotional weight' or whatever tied to it. It's a a joke, a goof, a meme, whatever you want to call it - a dumb little thing purely for lols.

Little things like this are always innocuous.  I tend to smile at them.  Anyone remember the faction in Gothic that are never seen without their hookahs?  It gave it flavor.

 

ETA:  Btw, I love your avatar, Doomkid.  Ironically, however, supposedly Frank Zappa never smoked, drank or did drugs from what I hear. 

[Tracer]

People often allow their bias towards someone to sway their opinion about said individual's product or products one way or the other, depending on the bias.  It's stupid, but it's normal.

 

If Nero made great burgers, would you enjoy them?

[kb1]

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

This is an aside, but I feel like people are often reading too deeply into things that just aren't there and spinning whole crazy theories/assumptions/what have you based on it and I feel like that's becoming more and more common over the years. Maybe that's just me reading too deeply into people reading too deeply into stuff, though..

 

This is a good point. There used to be a bit of mystery in people. Nowadays people are analyzed to the nth degree - it's tedious and boring. There's too many wonderful, interesting things to focus on in the world, without studying people. I prefer to check out nature, for example.

[everennui]

The bigger the asshole the better.

Assholes are often the best kind of people. They usually know what they want and have a mind of their own. 

[ranhcase]

I play/watch/listen to something not for the person who made it but for the thing itself.

[40oz]

On ‎6‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:23 PM, kb1 said:

This is a good point. There used to be a bit of mystery in people. Nowadays people are analyzed to the nth degree - it's tedious and boring. There's too many wonderful, interesting things to focus on in the world, without studying people. I prefer to check out nature, for example.

what's especially weird is that someone might play or listen or view something you made, then proceed to tell you or other people who you are without even asking you if they got the right interpretation.

[ImpMan11203]

i haven't played to many Custom WADs (I plan to change that). But if the author is an "asshole" or something, then I will still play the map if its good. I'll just make sure to keep my distance from him in the forums.

[roadworx]

honestly, i just try to distance the author away from their works. just because the author is an ass doesn't mean the WAD is bad.

[Barons O' Fun]

I really dont care, if his/her map is well made, then i'll play it. Because normally you play a WAD for the map, not the author....thats just me though

 

 

[everennui]

I'm not sure if people think I'm an asshole or not, but everytime you play one of my maps, I get a little piece of your soul.

[Aldaraia]

The pwads will simply speak for themselves. Barring personal interactions, I'll play and enjoy maps with nothing but a superficial understanding of what the author is like, if anything at all. They'll all be appreciated by their own merits based on being a Doom level - the gameplay, visual design, layout, etc.

 

The dealbreaker comes from how the author expresses him/herself. Architecture, monster balance and other aspects of gameplay can receive emphasis from even those regarded as jerks looking to create the ideal Doom experience for themselves, the finished result being isolate and separate from the more contemptible characteristics of a person. The issue begins when the maps DO begin inheriting noxious traits that are reminiscent of its creator. It can be subtle enough just to render the artistic theme and vision behind the mapset to be overall unappealing, or it can be a dumped pile of excretion otherwise known as the terrywad.

 

[seablock]

for a doom wad or mod, it wouldn't really matter to me unless the creator was trying to shove some sort of propaganda in it, but in that case there's an almost endless amount of other wads to download and play. i mean, it's a free download. you aren't giving them money so it doesn't really bother me. now if i enjoyed a video game or music created by someone who was an asshole, i'd just pirate it or buy it used.

[The_MártonJános]

I'm not known for holding grudges for long, and, on a side note, for the time being, I hadn't had a particularly awful experience by any members on this Forum for me to legitimately consider them an "asshole".

But even if so...
... this would be utterly nonsense.

Talent and behavior are two different things, and - though poor defense, I admit - many of the artists throughout history were actually known to be outrageously deviant. It is true that behavior may affect how people see you in general (expect reactions from you, ignore you, etc.), and it might also affect how they handle something you've produced.

It, however, should only be harshly distinguished whether you, the author, are bragging or not. People repulsive to you will either mildly tell you off or simply ignore. People wanting your attention will cheeringly ensure every selfish word you say, and people who are somewhat caring for you will ask you not to be so full of yourself. And believe me, they'd be right, because braggers are prone to handle criticism badly, turning their self-polishing into a sudden ragefest and so on... and eventually they'd become some asshole mappers aswell, despite not initially they actually were. Point is, it's absolutely no matter whether you're the most perfect entity in the Universe either... bragging is a mustn't!

And the point in what I am trying to make and why I brought bragging up is because it's never what personal insults on way different topics may indicate for me that the author as a person is asshole as an author or not. He or she might've even cursed my entire family with bad words (sheerly radical example, I know), but it only reflects on how poor socialising skills he or she does have. But when an author just can't stop talking about how miraculously splendid thingy they'd produced, regardless what the truth behind the actual content is... that's just flatout unsympathetic for me to stomach in all circumstances.

That is where talent and behavior fatally clash and my 0-star ratings are most definitely booked.

[CzechMate29200]

if you really hate the guy, dont play it.

 

if you really disagree with the guy, who cares? we all have our own opinions. 

 

You are supposed to play mods to have fun and enjoy the modding community....