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cacomonkey

Adjusting mouselook in OpenGL source ports to simulate software mode

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I noticed that the OpenGL versions of Gzdoom and GLBoom+ allow you to look directly overhead and underneath you.  This is normally a desirable thing but certain wad authors did not take this into account when they composed their skyboxes for certain visually pleasing wads, like Lunatic.  You'll see that big beautiful image of the earth up in the sky then look directly overhead and it turns to shit and looks like God's cosmic bagel with cream cheese looming up in the heavens.  Is there a way to set the mouselook in GZdoom/GLBoom+ so that it perfectly simulates the more restrictive overhead/underfoot view of software mode?

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Yes: disable mouselook. That's how you'll simulate accurately a renderer that doesn't allow you to look up and down.

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In GZDoom, you can limit the camera's vertical angle by a console variable maxviewpitch. However, it sets the maximum angle both for looking up and for looking down to the same value, so it can't be used to accurately emulate ZDoom, which sets the limit to different values for looking up and for looking down.

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4 minutes ago, Gez said:

Yes: disable mouselook. That's how you'll simulate accurately a renderer that doesn't allow you to look up and down.

 

It's been many years since I played that shareware version of Doom in 1995, but didn't even that first MS-DOS version, while not exactly having mouselook, allow you to look up and look down with the Page Up & Page Down keys or something?  Or am I misremembering?  You play so many of these classic FPSs over the years and things start to blur a bit.  It's imperative to my enjoyment of a first person shooter game to be able to look up/down... at least a little.

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3 minutes ago, cacomonkey said:

didn't even that first MS-DOS version, while not exactly having mouselook, allow you to look up and look down with the Page Up & Page Down keys or something?

No, Doom never had that feature outside of source ports. It was Heretic that introduced it as an official part of the game.

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6 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

In GZDoom, you can limit the camera's vertical angle by a console variable maxviewpitch. However, it sets the maximum angle both for looking up and for looking down to the same value, so it can't be used to accurately emulate ZDoom, which sets the limit to different values for looking up and for looking down.

I think I'd settle for this limitation since it's the skyboxes that seem to suffer the most with these things, though it can be equally jarring (but more tolerable, to me at least) to look down into a pit and see a bunch of flat paper-doll imps shooting fireballs at you.  Can the console variable be set in the cfg file?  What would be the correct value for mouselook up to approximate zdoom anmd PrDoom?  Thanks for your help.

 

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4 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

No, Doom never had that feature outside of source ports. It was Heretic that introduced it as an official part of the game.

 

Ahhh, I see.  I think I first played Heretic just a couple of months (or even weeks) after I first played Doom.  No wonder I got that confused.  Good times, them days.

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14 minutes ago, cacomonkey said:

Can the console variable be set in the cfg file?

Yes, but it might be more convenient to set it in GZDoom's console (start GZDoom, open the console, and type "maxviewpitch N", where N is a number between 0-90), plus you can see the change take effect immediately.

14 minutes ago, cacomonkey said:

What would be the correct value for mouselook up to approximate zdoom anmd PrDoom?

According to this page: "The maximum upward angle in ZDoom is 32°, and the maximum downward angle is 56°". However, keep in mind that since the perspective works entirely differently (software has Y-shearing, OpenGL has trilinear), looking for example 30° upward in a software renderer will probably look very differently than looking 30° upward in OpenGL anyway, so this problem is hard up to impossible to tell in advance. Just run the game and keep changing the value through the console until you're satisfied.

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Is it possible to make super tall skies to account for skybox issues?

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41 minutes ago, cacomonkey said:

 though it can be equally jarring (but more tolerable, to me at least) to look down into a pit and see a bunch of flat paper-doll imps shooting fireballs at you.

That can be changed in GZDoom's options.  Go to Options --> Display --> OpenGL Settings --> Sprite Billboard, and set to "X/Y".  This makes the sprites pivot on both axes to always face the player, and not look like cardboard cut-outs when viewed from above.

 

For an alternative approach to your question, have you tried GZDoom's new true-colour software mode?  Turn it on in "Change Rendering Output" and make sure the "Poly Renderer" is set to off.  That gives you the old pan-and-scan style viewing that you're after with still most of GZDoom's visual effects (including stuff like dynamic lights).

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15 minutes ago, Bauul said:

That can be changed in GZDoom's options.  Go to Options --> Display --> OpenGL Settings --> Sprite Billboard, and set to "X/Y".  This makes the sprites pivot on both axes to always face the player, and not look like cardboard cut-outs when viewed from above.

 

For an alternative approach to your question, have you tried GZDoom's new true-colour software mode?  Turn it on in "Change Rendering Output" and make sure the "Poly Renderer" is set to off.  That gives you the old pan-and-scan style viewing that you're after with still most of GZDoom's visual effects (including stuff like dynamic lights).

 

Thanks for the tips.  I'll check it out.

 

Regarding a previous poster's query about skyboxes and deep overhead skies, I have seen a few mods designed specifically for GZdoom where the author adjusted for the distortion effects and created some nice starry skies above.

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2 hours ago, scifista42 said:

(software has Y-shearing, OpenGL has trilinear)

I think you're getting confused here.

 

Software is locked in two-point perspective, OpenGL has three-point perspective.

Software uses Y-shearing to simulate looking up and down, OpenGL actually changes the view pitch.

2 hours ago, GoatLord said:

Is it possible to make super tall skies to account for skybox issues?

Yes. With 512-pixel-tall skies you should be safe from unwanted tiling, even when you have both sky floors and sky ceilings.

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1 hour ago, Gez said:

Software is locked in two-point perspective, OpenGL has three-point perspective.

Software uses Y-shearing to simulate looking up and down, OpenGL actually changes the view pitch.

With the exception of GZDoom which now supports three-point perspective in Software Mode.

 

Which my brain still doesn't believe is software mode when I use it.  I'm just so used to true freelook being the sole domain of hardware mode.

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1 minute ago, Bauul said:

Which my brain still doesn't believe is software mode when I use it.  I'm just so used to true freelook being the sole domain of hardware mode.

Maybe I should add an Y-shearing option to the OpenGL renderer then just to confuse you further. :)

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7 minutes ago, dpJudas said:

Maybe I should add an Y-shearing option to the OpenGL renderer then just to confuse you further. :)

You joke, but ironically that would actually solve the OP's original request! :D

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1 minute ago, Bauul said:

You joke, but ironically that would actually solve the OP's original request! :D

No, because he also wants the skydome to be rendered like the original software renderer does. But if I added that as well then yes. :D

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1 hour ago, Gez said:

I think you're getting confused here.

I was just lazy to say "bilinear with Y-shearing" and "true trilinear", so I shortened it to "Y-shearing" and "trilinear". I also believed that "two-point" and "bilinear" were synonymous terms, and "three-point" and "trilinear" likewise.

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11 minutes ago, dpJudas said:

No, because he also wants the skydome to be rendered like the original software renderer does. But if I added that as well then yes. :D

No, you won't! :P

 

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3 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

No, you won't! :P

Haha! So ugly it would get rejected as a PR? :D

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58 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

I also believed that "two-point" and "bilinear" were synonymous terms, and "three-point" and "trilinear" likewise.

I've never heard bilinear and trilinear used for perspective before, and I worry that such a use could generate confusion with notions such as bi/trilinear interpolation or bi/trilinear filtering.

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On 6/7/2017 at 0:08 PM, scifista42 said:

In GZDoom, you can limit the camera's vertical angle by a console variable maxviewpitch. However, it sets the maximum angle both for looking up and for looking down to the same value, so it can't be used to accurately emulate ZDoom, which sets the limit to different values for looking up and for looking down.

 

Been trying to get this to work in GZDoom 3.1.0 64-bit.  I type in "maxviewpitch 30" (no quotes) at the console, for example, and no change, I'm still able to look almost straight up/down with resulting skewered skyboxes.  However, I'm using the Doom Software Renderer under Hardware Acceleration with OpenGL selected for Software Canvas.  Basically I'm trying to simulate zdoom's max view pitch.  The new 32-bit true color rendering in Software True Color Mode (which I have enabled by the way) is what I'm really liking about recent GZdoom builds.  But what am I doing wrong here?  I even changed the value directly in the ini file.  It doesn't seem to work.

 

ETA: Nevermind.  I guess this command doesn't work in Doom Software Renderer and only with OpenGL.   I guess I'll just have to suffer those off-kilter skyboxes if I want to play in the new True Color Software Mode with mouselook until y-shearing becomes an added feature in future builds.  There are worse things in life.

Edited by cacomonkey

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1 hour ago, cacomonkey said:

Nevermind.  I guess this command doesn't work in Doom Software Renderer and only with OpenGL.

That's correct. Otherwise its reference on the wiki wouldn't be in the OpenGL-specific chapter. You've been explicitly talking about OpenGL, so I figured that was what you were after.

 

The truecolor software renderer is very new and under very active development right now. A feature with the same effect will probably be added to it.

Edited by scifista42

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@cacomonkey Make sure you turn off "Poly rendering (beta)" (or words to those effect) in the same menu. That's the setting that lets you look up and down all the way. Turning that off will get you to the old fashioned Doom freelook effect when running Software Mode.

 

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1 hour ago, scifista42 said:

That's correct. Otherwise its reference on the wiki wouldn't be in the OpenGL-specific chapter. You've been explicitly talking about OpenGL, so I figured that was what you were after.

 

 

After trying out the new True Color Software Mode I kind of fell in love with it, and even though I selected Doom Software Renderer in Hardware Accelewration, I have to also select OpenGL in Software Canvas in the same menu.  Using Direct3D causes a framerate drop of nearly 50 FPS (!).  I just got confused because of the OpenGL in Software Canvas while running Doom Software Renderer which made me think it was running in OpenGL and so I deluded myself that the maxpitchview command would work, I think.  All these settings befuddle me sometimes.

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34 minutes ago, Bauul said:

@cacomonkey Make sure you turn off "Poly rendering (beta)" (or words to those effect) in the same menu. That's the setting that lets you look up and down all the way. Turning that off will get you to the old fashioned Doom freelook effect when running Software Mode.

 

 

"Poly rendering (experimental)" is off by default and it still seems I'm nearly able to look straight up and down.

 

My settings in that menu are in the screenshot below.  True Color software mode looks and runs like a dream but skyboxes are still fucked for me and I'm not getting that limited classic Doom (or Heretic rather) look up/down view with mouselook.

settings.jpg

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@cacomonkey Well turning off Poly Rendering does result in the old style Y-shearing (you can tell by how distorted it looks when looking up and down), so at least you got to that.

 

The final thing you can try is if you go to Display Options and go to Software Renderer, there are a few options for playing around with the sky.  If you change the Sky Render Mode to "Stretch" and turn on "Linear Skies" you nearly get to what you're after.  Unfortunately the sky doesn't stretch all the way up and tiles instead at the very top and bottom of the viewing angle.

 

I think this is about as close as you're likely to get to the old, more limited viewing angle I'm afraid.

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2 minutes ago, Bauul said:

@cacomonkey Well turning off Poly Rendering does result in the old style Y-shearing (you can tell by how distorted it looks when looking up and down), so at least you got to that.

 

The final thing you can try is if you go to Display Options and go to Software Renderer, there are a few options for playing around with the sky.  If you change the Sky Render Mode to "Stretch" and turn on "Linear Skies" you nearly get to what you're after.  Unfortunately the sky doesn't stretch all the way up and tiles instead at the very top and bottom of the viewing angle.

 

I think this is about as close as you're likely to get to the old, more limited viewing angle I'm afraid.

 

Yeah, that was one of the first things I tried when it was suggested by a forum member in a topic I started earlier about QZDoom in the Source Ports forum.  No joy.  I just find how zdoom and PrBoom+ does it to be perfect with software renderers.  But as you guys said, the new true color renderer in GZdoom is still experimental so maybe we'll get this feature eventually.  Certain wads have skyboxes that the authors took great pains to look good under zdoom.  An option to approximate this under OpenGL or True Color rendering in future GZDoom builds would just be so great.

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It has been my experience (in Zandronum's GL mode) that with a 512-pixel sky texture, the sky does still blend into a solid color if you look up high enough, but it does go up further before it does that than with a normal sky box, so it helps. A sky texture taller than 512 doesn't seem to have any additional effect.

 

GZDoom also has a feature that lets you define an actual sky box, with a different texture for north, south, east, west, up, and down, like I remember from Half-Life (which uses a heavily-modified Quake engine [not Quake 2]). If you do that, and do it well, it can look sweeeet.

Edited by Empyre

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The sky code in QZDoom/GZDoom is the same as in ZDoom assuming the following things are true:  1) hardware acceleration is set to doom software, 2) poly renderer is off, 3) sky render mode is normal or stretch, 4) linear skies is off.

 

I haven't changed anything with regard to max view pitches in the software renderer. It uses the same code and logic for looking up and down as ZDoom did.

 

If you are seeing something differing from the latest ZDoom release, please report it on the ZDoom forum as it is probably a bug. Include which map you are using and screenshots of both ZDoom and GZDoom so we can get a better understanding of what broke and in what way. At the moment the only sky bug (outside of softpoly) I'm aware of is that sometimes the sky cap fade happens prematurely, but it doesn't sound like this is what you're seeing.

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14 hours ago, dpJudas said:

The sky code in QZDoom/GZDoom is the same as in ZDoom assuming the following things are true:  1) hardware acceleration is set to doom software, 2) poly renderer is off, 3) sky render mode is normal or stretch, 4) linear skies is off.

 

I haven't changed anything with regard to max view pitches in the software renderer. It uses the same code and logic for looking up and down as ZDoom did.

 

If you are seeing something differing from the latest ZDoom release, please report it on the ZDoom forum as it is probably a bug. Include which map you are using and screenshots of both ZDoom and GZDoom so we can get a better understanding of what broke and in what way. At the moment the only sky bug (outside of softpoly) I'm aware of is that sometimes the sky cap fade happens prematurely, but it doesn't sound like this is what you're seeing.

 

I'm in the doghouse over on the Zdoom forums for bumping up an old topic and then getting hotheaded about it when the mod-God refused to approve my first on-topic post so I have to plead my case here, your honor :)

 

I'm having the skewered skyboxes issue with both GZdoom 3.0.1 x64 and the latest 3.1.0 x64 in software mode, with or without true color enabled.  All the criteria and settings that you listed above have been met.  Using Skillsaw's MAP01 of Lunatic as the test-wad, here are the results:

 

Screenshot 1 is of the maximum pitch view in zdoom 2.8.1.  As you can see, it's normal:

 

Screenshot 2 is the same map in the same position in GZDoom 3.0.1 x64  The pitch view is much higher and the skyboxes skewered though I have all the required settings.  This also happens in AfterDoom's (where the author put some effort into creative skyboxes) first map.  Hopefully, this can shed some light on the problem.  Thanks for your interest.

 

 

Screenshot_Doom_20170616_090024.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170616_085919.png

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