Is the BFG overrated?

[Da Werecat]

1 hour ago, InsanityBringer said:

(makes one wonder why they didn't think about rocket jumping in quake...)

They did. Discovered it during a DM session.

[KVELLER]

Just now, Da Werecat said:

They did. Discovered it during a DM session.

But AFAIK it was when the game was already released. You can break a few maps because of that.

[Graf Zahl]

3 hours ago, KVELLER said:

It might not be as useful as the BFG, but I'd say it's for its own good. I was really dissapointed when I saw the Spider Mastermind going down with two shots. I mean, come on, it's the game's final boss!

 

 

That's more a problem with the monster than with the weapon (i.e. low health plus ultra-wide radius which makes it catch nearly the entire barrage.)

 

[KVELLER]

30 minutes ago, Graf Zahl said:

 

That's more a problem with the monster than with the weapon (i.e. low health plus ultra-wide radius which makes it catch nearly the entire barrage.)

 

Well, I hadn't think about it that way. Makes sense.

[hardcore_gamer]

To the guys saying the BFG does more damage than the plasma, there are a couple of things you are missing:

 

1. A lot of the damage is often just soaked up by junk enemies. I can't count the number of times I have fired a bfg ball at a baron or ach-vile only for him to not die because a lot of the damage was soaked/consumed by other weaker monsters that I did not really care about anyway and could have easily killed with lesser weapons.

 

2. If it's main advantage is being good against hordes as you say, then other weapons such as the rocket launcher are a better alternative since the rocket launcher is less likely to run out of ammo while dealing with hordes and rocket ammo is also generally easier to find.

 

3. The single biggest benefit of the bfg is disposing of high level monsters such as barons or arch-viles quickly. Using it against trash is a waste of cell ammo. High level enemies don't generally travel in large packs (though this does depend on the level designer I admit), so again the rocket launcher is just more ammo friendly when dealing with a few barons or some other higher tier enemy.

 

How I play:

 

Trash: Shotgun, chaingun, sometimes rocket launcher and plasma rifle if the trash is mixed with some medium tier enemies.

 

Medium tier: SSG, rocket launcher, plasma rifle

 

High tier: Rocket launcher, plasma rifle

 

Boss: Sometimes bfg depending on the map design.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Look, mate, if you are unable to position yourself properly so you kill what you actually want to kill, that's your fault, and not the weapon's inherent issue/drawback.

 

Also, I have no time to pick apart trash mobs to save a few cells. I BFG the fuck out of the place in less than 2 seconds and move on. That's how this game is played.

 

Also, what ammo you can find or not depends on the map, so that argument has no merit to it whatsoever.

 

How you play is of no interest in regards to this discussion, because if it wasn't obvious enough by now: You don't use the BFG properly.

 

Also it is hilarious how you think of your opinion to be more qualified and in-depth than the point of view of experienced speedrunners for example.

[baja blast rd.]

15 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

To the guys saying the BFG does more damage than the plasma, there are a couple of things you are missing:

 

1. A lot of the damage is often just soaked up by junk enemies. I can't count the number of times I have fired a bfg ball at a baron or ach-vile only for him to not die because a lot of the damage was soaked/consumed by other weaker monsters that I did not really care about anyway and could have easily killed with lesser weapons.

Sometimes you can fire the BFG ball at a weaker monster and move such that you are using your tracers on the stronger monster. I can't really make a video right now so here is a three-minute paint job. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

[ImpMan11203]

16 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

A lot of the damage is often just soaked up by junk enemies.

so your blaming the weapons for improper use on your behalf...

[42PercentHealth]

You still don't understand how the BFG works. The plasma ball doesn't do any splash damage or anything. It only damages the monster it hits, just like a single projectile from the plasma gun except bigger & meaner. Shortly after the plasma ball hits something (approximately 1/2 second), there is a hitscan blast from the player's position (not the plasma ball), which behaves like a giant shotgun blast which covers a 90-degree arc in the direction that the plasma ball was fired. The vast majority of the BFG's damage is in the hitscan phase. If you keep this in mind and get used to how it behaves, it's not hard to make the most of each shot. You can't do things like "peekaboo shoot" and then duck behind a wall -- the hitscan blast would be wasted. You also can't just circle-strafe a cyberdemon -- the hitscan blast would always shoot away from him.

 

The reason the weapon is so highly regarded is because it rewards aggressive gameplay, and because it requires very careful timing and positioning. You can't just play auto-pilot point-and-shoot. There are precious few video game weapons for which this can be said, and IMO none which match it.

 

7 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

1. A lot of the damage is often just soaked up by junk enemies. I can't count the number of times I have fired a bfg ball at a baron or ach-vile only for him to not die because a lot of the damage was soaked/consumed by other weaker monsters that I did not really care about anyway and could have easily killed with lesser weapons.

This will only happen if they are between you and the big baddie you are trying to put down. Get close to tough monsters, so they receive more of the hitscan tracers (just like the pump shotgun, they spread out and become less effective at longer distances).

 

9 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

2. If it's main advantage is being good against hordes as you say, then other weapons such as the rocket launcher are a better alternative since the rocket launcher is less likely to run out of ammo while dealing with hordes and rocket ammo is also generally easier to find.

You might find that the RL is better in some cases. But the BFG is capable of killing up to 41 low-tier monsters per shot (in theory -- perhaps not in practice because RNG). But some monsters (like barons) are a real bore to clear out with the RL. The BFG is much faster.

 

15 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

3. The single biggest benefit of the bfg is disposing of high level monsters such as barons or arch-viles quickly. Using it against trash is a waste of cell ammo. High level enemies don't generally travel in large packs (though this does depend on the level designer I admit), so again the rocket launcher is just more ammo friendly when dealing with a few barons or some other higher tier enemy.

A cyberdemon can be killed in ~180-200 cells with the PG, and only 80 with the BFG. How is that a waste?

 

I think that 20-30 imps can be dispatched with a single BFG shot, but I think it would take ~60-100 cells to do this with the PG. How is that a waste?

 

A baron takes 40-50 cells to kill with the PG, but two can be killed with a single BFG shot. How is that a waste?

[leodoom85]

20 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

To the guys saying the BFG does more damage than the plasma, there are a couple of things you are missing:

 

1. A lot of the damage is often just soaked up by junk enemies. I can't count the number of times I have fired a bfg ball at a baron or ach-vile only for him to not die because a lot of the damage was soaked/consumed by other weaker monsters that I did not really care about anyway and could have easily killed with lesser weapons.

 

2. If it's main advantage is being good against hordes as you say, then other weapons such as the rocket launcher are a better alternative since the rocket launcher is less likely to run out of ammo while dealing with hordes and rocket ammo is also generally easier to find.

 

3. The single biggest benefit of the bfg is disposing of high level monsters such as barons or arch-viles quickly. Using it against trash is a waste of cell ammo. High level enemies don't generally travel in large packs (though this does depend on the level designer I admit), so again the rocket launcher is just more ammo friendly when dealing with a few barons or some other higher tier enemy.

 

How I play:

 

Trash: Shotgun, chaingun, sometimes rocket launcher and plasma rifle if the trash is mixed with some medium tier enemies.

 

Medium tier: SSG, rocket launcher, plasma rifle

 

High tier: Rocket launcher, plasma rifle

 

Boss: Sometimes bfg depending on the map design.

How I play:

 

Trash: Fist and shotgun

Mid-tier: Fist, SSG and chaingun

High-tier: Fist, SSG and RL

Bosses: Fist, SSG and BFG

 

Done...

[42PercentHealth]

5 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Sometimes you can fire the BFG ball at a weaker monster and move such that you are using your tracers on the stronger monster. I can't really make a video right now so here is a three-minute paint job. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

That lost soul! XD It needs to be my next avatar! :-P

[leodoom85]

I haven't saw cuter things than this..... imps, a smiling lost soul and a cybie. Adorable, awwwww...

[Zulk RS]

6 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

I haven't saw cuter things than this..... imps, a smiling lost soul and a cybie. Adorable, awwwww...

I think that's a baron in the middle.

[leodoom85]

2 minutes ago, Zulk-RS said:

I think that's a baron in the middle.

Oh, you're right. Still cute tho

[galileo31dos01]

"Trash"

 

I don't know what you call "trash", there are no "trash" enemies in Doom. You just need to learn how to properly use the BFG. I understand that you might feel disappointed about the weapon, I used to be too, but I took my time to learn to use it effectively and efficiently. I consider it now the most powerful one and it's not meant to be wasted with single low-tier enemies. It literally can save your life in near-death situations. 

 

15 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

If it's main advantage is being good against hordes as you say, then other weapons such as the rocket launcher are a better alternative since the rocket launcher is less likely to run out of ammo while dealing with hordes and rocket ammo is also generally easier to find.

Everything in this statement will depend on the map and how you get on. Obviously if you are being provided with an adequate amount of rockets and not enough cells, then the purpose of the map is to use rocket launcher much more. That doesn't mean that, if you are also given the BFG, you won't need it. Imagine being presented with a horde of Hell Knights right in your face and no space to retreat, what would you choose, the rocket launcher or the BFG?. Now imagine being presented with the same horde far away, the choice is clear. Now, returning to the first example, you have the BFG and the plasma rifle, which one would you choose? If you choose the BFG, you will likely clear the enemies faster, giving you space to work your plans, only if you use it properly. If you choose the plasma rifle, you will kill a few but you will also be surrounded by enemies scratching your face to death.

There exist maps where the BFG is the main star, and you have more than enough cells to use them as you like.

So yeah, it depends on the situations. 

 

33 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Using it against trash is a waste of cell ammo.

Then why would you use the BFG when you can just use the shotgun or the chaingun? Unless it's a horde of imps or an ambush of chaingunners, you will likely never use the BFG if it's not necessary. 

 

36 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

I can't count the number of times I have fired a bfg ball at a baron or ach-vile only for him to not die because a lot of the damage was soaked/consumed by other weaker monsters that I did not really care about anyway and could have easily killed with lesser weapons.

You may probably have faced several blockmap-glitch moments. If you want to kill an archvile or a baron in one BFG shot, the best way is to approach right into their face and shoot them. Since the majority of the damage cause by one shot is due to the tracers, shooting them that way will cause them full damage. Spider Masterminds can also be killed in one BFG shot, although that is more rare to happen due to the blockmap glitch.

 

I recommend you to read this in case you haven't. It tells how the BFG works. Really helpful.

[Tindrone]

short answer:

Long answer: I don't have one

[Unholypimp1n]

11 hours ago, Battle_Kirby said:

The BFG isn't, but SSG surely is. In a lot of dm servers, players always pick these lances up and charge, probably thinking "if I get the BFG I will surely get rekt by some camper", and much like the four monkeys and a banana experiment, no one dares to run for that gun, only pick it up so that the other guy doesn't use it. Of course, I get to pick it up and use some 1337 strats that would pick up a lot of frags in no time.

 

Also, apparently SSG "dwarfs" any other weapon as well. I have yet to see someone with a chaingun or a plasma gun, or a regular shotgun even. No wonder I had quit multiplayer. The elitism is kind off bothering me. Yeah, I used the chaingun and the regular shotgun, but no one else did, and the whole charade turned out to be a predictable session of who lances who with a SSG.

 

I mean, it is not even that nice in singleplayer. Yeah it kills stuff instantly, yeah it uses merely two shells at the time, but that kinda negates the fun of the game and replaces it with cheap thrills of "is that pinky going to bite me during reloads?" and "eat lead scum!", while every other weapon is really fun to use. Even the fists sometimes.

 

Tl;dr no fucking tl;dr read this shit :DDDDDD

Ya I know what you mean, in dm and even pve the ssg is the most useful gun because it can do a rockets worth of damage at close range and also can take out multiple smaller enemies in 1 shot if you line them up right.  I find it sad that the plasmagun is weaker second to second of continuous fire compared to the rocket launcher and the rocket launcher is in slot five and the plasmagun slot 6.  In dm the plasmagun can be used for quick killing sprees if you spread plasma everywhere and keep shooting so that people turning a corner or respawning get caught by plasma balls before they have time to react, of course it really only takes one ssg to the face to end that.

I still think the bfg isnt overrated because even in dm if someone picks up the bfg and actually uses it they can go from losing to being 10+ kills over the leader in moments, and if someone knows how to use the bfg well they can become untouchable untill they run out of cells or accidently walk over a shitty chaingun or shotgun.  The bfg can easily clear out nasty trap rooms before the monsters have a chance to own you.  The bfg imo is still my oh shit gun when I run into a situation where even the rocket launcher wont save me.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

The BFG is nothing compared to the strongest weapon in the game, Running past everything and hitting the exit while laughing at them. 

[riderr3]

BFG is more useful in Doom2/TNT/Plutonia where need to deal with many high-tier monsters. Doom 1 have kinda relaxing levels, where you strolling on spooky hallways.

[Grain of Salt]

12 hours ago, Battle_Kirby said:

I mean, it is not even that nice in singleplayer. Yeah it kills stuff instantly, yeah it uses merely two shells at the time, but that kinda negates the fun of the game and replaces it with cheap thrills of "is that pinky going to bite me during reloads?" and "eat lead scum!", while every other weapon is really fun to use. Even the fists sometimes.

 

Nah. Your case is the same as hardcore_gamer's. If you think the ssg is overrated, you're not using it properly. And it sounds like you're playing really dull maps, tbh.

[baja blast rd.]

Battle_Kirby you might get along with this guy.

[Guest Unregistered account]

@hardcore_gamer

If your method is to use the BFG to take down single high-priority enemies, such as Barons/Archviles/etc., all you need to do is get right up in their face.

 

Picture it like this: the moment you fire the BFG, it's like aiming a shotgun. The direction you fired the ball in is the direction the tracers will come from. As soon as the ball hits something, the "shotgun" is fired from you, in that direction. The shotgun part stems from the fact that there's multiple tracers that shoot outwards, like a shotgun.

 

Also like a shotgun, this means that if you're closer to something, more of the tracers will hit it.

 

When you know this, one-shotting Barons and Archviles is a piece of cake - just give them a kiss after the ball lands and bam - you literally can't lose!

[hardcore_gamer]

2 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Sometimes you can fire the BFG ball at a weaker monster and move such that you are using your tracers on the stronger monster. I can't really make a video right now so here is a three-minute paint job. Hope this helps. 

 

 

 

Is it just me or do the imps look like goombas?

[NaZa]

The man's told you how to deal with monsters properly with the BFG (thereby shutting this thread) and the only thing you say to him is something about Goombas? Logic?

[GarrettChan]

2 hours ago, rdwpa said:

(Don't want to quote the picture)

Wow, love this drawing. I always have some special feeling about these demonstrations as I sometimes do it. That Baron is like "oh $h!t" and the Lost Soul looks like a neighbor that goes "hahahaha" all day long and annoy the crap out of you ;P

 

To be honest, when I was saying whether SSG is overrated, it's just sarcastic to myself. I'm a SSG lover, and I tended to overuse SSG than any other things. However, now I realized that every weapon has its own use (except pistol I guess, mostly). There's no actual formula in Doom because the variety of monster / monster combination / terrain combination. Therefore, strictly classify what enemy type means what weapon doesn't make too much sense.

 

To me, there are a lot of skills that I can't perform with the BFG. For example, efficient wall shots and one shot 2 Barons. It's not a straightforward weapon to be honest.

[Edward850]

5 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

It's not a straightforward weapon to be honest.

Then this post is for you as well.

[GarrettChan]

4 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Then this post is for you as well.

Thanks, I know how it works. I just can't really always pull it off when doing a run because nervous, not really I don't know.

[Bauul]

13 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

And something similar goes for most other big weapons as well, I'll make an exception for Quake 2's BFG10k which ultimately just copied from Doom, though.

Quake 2's BFG did at least add the tracers that emanate from the projectile as it passes by enemies.  That became a standard element of the gun and returned in both Doom 3 and Doom 2016.

[Impie]

"No." --Every Slaughter Map Player Ever.

[ImpMan11203]

3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

 

 

those Imps look totally realistic...

gonna have to change my avatar ;-)