Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus

[Jayextee]

2 minutes ago, DooM_RO said:

But once you humanize the good characters and have them do questionable things like torture it sometimes feels weird.

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe this is the point. I gathered from the tone set early on in TNO (that sadly, it didn't run with throughout) that the game was less about 'the' war but more the extremes demanded of normal people during wartime. The horrors witnessed, and performed. Some of B.J's early monologues hint to this.

 

But then, maybe him becoming a well-oiled killing machine by the end is a part of that. I'd think so, had The Old Blood not pretty much established B.J as such pretty much at the beginning. Either way I'm inclined to think that, whereas DOOM 2016 glorified (literally, considering the Glory Kills) combat and killing, Wolfenstein TNO/TOB (and probably TNC) deliberately paints an uncomfortable picture.

[june gloom]

3 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Idk, he seems to regard them as subhumans the same way Nazis regarded Jews as subhumans. Had he been born in Germany instead of America he would probably have been a Nazi. He's violent, simple-minded, follows orders without question and treats the "other" as subhuman.

Doomworld really needs a laugh react.

[DooM_RO]

9 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe this is the point. I gathered from the tone set early on in TNO (that sadly, it didn't run with throughout) that the game was less about 'the' war but more the extremes demanded of normal people during wartime. The horrors witnessed, and performed. Some of B.J's early monologues hint to this.

 

But then, maybe him becoming a well-oiled killing machine by the end is a part of that. I'd think so, had The Old Blood not pretty much established B.J as such pretty much at the beginning. Either way I'm inclined to think that, whereas DOOM 2016 glorified (literally, considering the Glory Kills) combat and killing, Wolfenstein TNO/TOB (and probably TNC) deliberately paints an uncomfortable picture.

 

Yeah, I think you're right. The tone of TNO either makes me laugh out loud like the part where you flush that guy's head in the toilet or makes me cringe when Deathshead harvests Fergus'/Wyatt's brain. It wants to take itself really seriously but the does something really silly. Sometimes it works but sometimes I just cringe or roll my eyes.

[Jayextee]

I'd say that mood-whiplash is probably the writer/s not wanting shit to get too heavy, lest players become detached and not invested through emotional burnout. It's not an easy thing to do well, but it looks from TNC's trailer that they've tried to create the same moments of levity in an otherwise thick soup of heightened trauma. Hoping personally the tone (and pacing of the game, but that's a separate issue I have with TNO) is a bit more consistent this time around.

[DooM_RO]

1 minute ago, Jayextee said:

I'd say that mood-whiplash is probably the writer/s not wanting shit to get too heavy, lest players become detached and not invested through emotional burnout. It's not an easy thing to do well, but it looks from TNC's trailer that they've tried to create the same moments of levity in an otherwise thick soup of heightened trauma. Hoping personally the tone (and pacing of the game, but that's a separate issue I have with TNO) is a bit more consistent this time around.

Not just that but they probably also wanted to emulate the colorful and cheesy nature of Wolf3D. The problem is that it works a lot better when the game is really abstract and weird. It's really hard to translate it into modern 3D and the fact that they managed even to some degree is a testament to their skill. The campy, cheesy nature of Wolf3D worked in that game because it was weird and labyrinthine, like something out of a dream or LSD trip. From the blue walls, weird, utterly nonsensical layouts and surreal atmosphere. 

 

Ultimately what I really liked TNO for was it's really inventive setting and the gameplay. The characters too...sometimes. 

[ShadesMaster]

I loved the Lassie poardy and other asdoiemrted programs being watched by the kitty.... <3

[boris]

German version will again not contain nazis or anything related to them. I guess that will again mean that you can't switch the game's language to english. They can keep their crap.

[MrGlide]

@DooM_Ro, I agree with you to an extent, you can see this mainly About BJ in TNO pretty often. If he wasn't like that I don't think his actions would actually line up with his character in the game to story wise. He's got a straight Murder Boner for Nazi's, but after what they've done to him and his Fellow solders can you truly blame him? I don't.

[june gloom]

Not to mention BJ is a Polish Jew. The Nazis came to power predicated on a desire to kill people like BJ.

[Edward850]

14 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Idk, he seems to regard them as subhumans the same way Nazis regarded Jews as subhumans. Had he been born in Germany instead of America he would probably have been a Nazi. He's violent, simple-minded, follows orders without question and treats the "other" as subhuman.

[DooM_RO]

7 hours ago, dethtoll said:

Not to mention BJ is a Polish Jew. The Nazis came to power predicated on a desire to kill people like BJ.

AFAIK he's only half Jewish and that might not be canon in the new games anymore. MachineGames left it intentionally vague.

 

As for the old devs, some say he's full jewish, some half and Tom Hall told Kotaku over an e-mail that that's not what was intended

 

"That was never specified or intended at the time, though I intended him to be of Polish descent," Hall said over e-mail.

 

http://kotaku.com/is-this-nazi-killing-video-game-hero-jewish-maybe-510303278

 

So I guess he's an American-Polish Jew if you want him to be.

[june gloom]

"Half-Jewish" doesn't matter when the mother is Jewish, at least according to Jewish law.

[DooM_RO]

16 minutes ago, dethtoll said:

"Half-Jewish" doesn't matter when the mother is Jewish, at least according to Jewish law.

 

Ah, I see. I didn't know that.

 

Still, his heritage has always been fuzzy. All we know for certain is he's an American Pole.

[june gloom]

I think he's unequivocally Jewish. For one thing, he knows Hebrew, which is a dead giveaway; not many people know Hebrew unless they have a reason to, and that reason is usually being Jewish. The bit where he gets his number at the death camp is deliberately intended to evoke images of similar tattoos on Holocaust survivors. More to the point the very fact that the character has been hinted at being Jewish going back to 3D -- and Tom Hall confirms his intent in a followup article just btw -- suggests that he is. Just because it's not outright stated and the developers play coy about it doesn't mean he isn't Jewish -- in fact, if he wasn't, they likely wouldn't bring it up at all. Jewishness is so often played off as being a minor, inconsequential part of a person's character (unless it becomes important) that it's often not stated outright in the source material -- for example, you'd never know that Joel from The Last Of Us was Jewish unless you saw Naughty Dog's official art of him in a menorah sweater in a holiday setting. His Jewishness isn't mentioned or hinted at in the game precisely because religion (or, more commonly, the Christmas holiday) doesn't factor into the plot. But according to Naughty Dog themselves, he's Jewish.

 

There's also an element of irony here, in that despite being a Polish Jew he looks exactly like the kind of bland Aryan beefcake the Nazis hold up as an ideal. He doesn't have to look like Artie Ziff to be Jewish; he fits exactly the Nazi dream of the Aryan Ubermensch, but his very heritage -- Polish and Jewish -- would break their shitty little minds if they knew. And then he stacks their stupid hateful corpses up like cordwood for further delicious irony.

[Jayextee]

7 minutes ago, dethtoll said:

There's also an element of irony here, in that despite being a Polish Jew he looks exactly like the kind of bland Aryan beefcake the Nazis hold up as an ideal.

 

It's almost like this was a clever commentary on the futility of holding aloft a standard based on superficial qualities.

Almost. ;)

[june gloom]

What a preposterous idea! ;)

[DooM_RO]

@dethtoll

 

Yeah, Frau Engel even remarks his Aryan features.

[DooM_RO]

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/wolfenstein_ii_the_new_colossus/b/playstation4/archive/2017/06/14/hands-on-with-machinegames-explosive-and-bloody-sequel.aspx?utm_content=buffer28730&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

New article.

 

You shoot Nazis from a wheelchair...because Wolfenstein!

 

That fat nazi chick is actually Frau's daughter...creepy.

[Battle_Korbi]

Does anyone have any ideas about the supernatural elements in TNC, though? Or did the bad guys ditch them once they had took over the world back in TNO?

 

Haven't played them (nor I ever will be able to) so I don't know.

[Varis Alpha]

there were no supernatural elements in TNO, so it's unlikely it'll be in this sequel. although, the nature of the technological prowess they have is a bit far-fetched. Old Blood did have supernatural elements in it and it was part of that game's plot, but that one got stopped after B.J. took care of the final boss.

[DooM_RO]

I have a feeling we've seen the last of the supernatural elements in The Old Blood.

[DooM_RO]

 

And anotha!

 

Seriously, Jens looks like the kind of guy who smokes weed non stop. 

[DooM_RO]

They are using a new engine based on Id Tech 6.

 

Still no Multiplayer. BIG SHAME! Wasted opportunity.

 

 

[Varis Alpha]

i for one welcome another solid singleplayer experience, as opposed to diluting the scene with more redundant multiplayer being shoe-horned in.

[DooM_RO]

11 minutes ago, Viscra Maelstrom said:

i for one welcome another solid singleplayer experience, as opposed to diluting the scene with more redundant multiplayer being shoe-horned in.

 

A COOP horde mode and something like Enemy Territory would not be forced at all.

[wheresthebeef]

3 hours ago, Battle_Kirby said:

Does anyone have any ideas about the supernatural elements in TNC, though? Or did the bad guys ditch them once they had took over the world back in TNO?

 

Haven't played them (nor I ever will be able to) so I don't know.

Spoilers for TNO and TOB, obviously

TNO didn't really have supernatural elements. It was mostly just experimentation, making super humans/dogs. It was a more sci fi theme and you even go to the moon.

In Old Blood, the last couple levels actually have zombies and the final boss is a giant creature that was woken up.

[june gloom]

I would actually be down with an Enemy Territory sequel. (And let's be honest, ET was basically a Battlefield clone of sorts, yeah?)

 

Though I tend to prefer the slightly tighter experience of Day of Defeat.

[DooM_RO]

With the awesome world and guns they give us it really is a shame we still are not getting MP:

 

Give the MP to the team that made Doom 2016 MP if MachineGames don't want to make it.

[jazzmaster9]

49 minutes ago, DooM_RO said:

With the awesome world and guns they give us it really is a shame we still are not getting MP:

 

Give the MP to the team that made Doom 2016 MP if MachineGames don't want to make it.

Aside from ET Wolfenstein has always been about a solid Singleplayer experience.

I would much rather have them focus all their resources on Singleplayer.

 

The market is SO saturated with Multiplayer and "Shoe-horned multiplayer" that the concept a focused singleplayer is almost forgotten. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by jazzmaster9

[geX]

The FPS MP market is highly saturated, its hardly a missed opportunity. It's owned by Blizzards Overwatch and CS:GO atm. Once in a while a new COD comes in and people play that.

 

There is a big chance a Wolf MP won't make an impact. So making the decision not to make it is the sane choice here, when you look at the business and time to market aspect (and you have to do that). Not much you can do here that hasn't already been done by others currently on the market.

 

Doom 16 could have lived without it as well IMO. It was even called Halo MP with demons.

 

But that's just me, I'm moving more and more away from MP games as I get older.

Edited June 16, 2017 by geX