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Doom 1 or 2?

Which one is your favorite?  

296 members have voted

  1. 1. Which one is your favorite?

    • DOOM/The Ultimate DOOM
      145
    • DOOM II: Hell on Earth
      151


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bzzrak said:

Do whatever you want. I mean that in an encouraging, positive way.
I'm reviewing this UnAligned megaWAD at the moment, well that thing is full of gimmick stuff. Do you know how is the first map of the WAD called? "Infight Central". Nobody seems to complain.
The same author's "Absolutely Killed" got a Cacoward, and it has nothing but gimmicks.

What I'm getting at: make maps like that for yourself and the two freaks that enjoy that kind of stuff. For the relatively few. Do you know what does Mr Relative Few think right now? "Damn I'm so fed up with this overhyped overdetailed slaughter Ancient Aliens/BTSX/Sunlust/whatever, I want a map where you have to infight!".
Make at least Mr Relative Few happy and you've accomplished your mission. :]

Everyone else can go play their Ancient Aliens, BTSX, Sunlust and Whatever if they don't like it. :]


This 'Relative Few' is rare because it exists at the union of people who dislike AA/BTSX/Sunlust and, more importantly, think AA and especially BTSX are slaughter mapsets. Hell, there might not be even one person other than you who thinks BTSX is a slaughter mapset. :D

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I find doom 2 way more fun to replay than doom 1. the only maps I hate are the pit, tenements, CITADEL (Fuck that stupid map, really) and map32.

I like maps like refueling base because there is so much shit to do you forget your goal is finding the exit. Same with chasm (The only annoying thing is that last acid room full of lost souls). Compared to doom 1 maps that list is very small. I don't think it is fair to compare episode 4 to doom 2 when it got released after it.

Doom 2s annoying maps are mildly annoying compared to doom 1 irritating shit ones too. At least they tend to be filled with fun side stuff to do instead of a bigger switch hunt than even hexen. (Hence fuck citadel, stupid "puzzle").

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I'm replaying it now and it does strike me how memorable each level is. For better or worse, the designs and themes stick with you.

I had to do Refueling Base from a pistol start after expending almost all my ammo and health on The Pit, and I still feel like it was really ill-considered to place those levels back to back. It creates a huge difficulty spike, and Refueling Base becomes harder to enjoy while having to sneak around it, especially with some haphazard sound blocking that can bring enemies in prematurely from neighboring rooms. I got through it without saving, which felt great, but it required figuring out the absolute quickest way to grab the yellow and blue keys, avoiding interacting with about half the level.

Thankfully map 11 lets you restock quite a bit, and I found myself really enjoying its layout this time.

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Map 11 is definitely a highlight of the entire first third of Doom II for me. Romero really flexing his map-making muscles to create a pretty linear experience that doesn't feel so -- but an enjoyable one at that.

It's also visually very interesting, too - probably one of the reasons it was included in the demo roll.

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DoctorGenesis said:

And slow imp that uses a gun.

Let's not forget the bulky imp with a rocket launcher.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, Doom 2 makes me feel sick. As well as Plutonia and TNT.

I love what Doom 2 has added to the series, the enemies and the new shotgun and so on. Nothing against those things as they are fun to use in map making and they add a little more variety.

It's just the actual game, a couple levels in I get queasy and I can't play comfortably. I haven't done a complete run though Doom 2 in years.

Doom 2 and the Final Doom games set me off. No idea why, never feel this way with the other Doom games, and gaming in general.

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Out of curiosity Xegethra, are there any megawads you play that don't make you feel queasy?

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Xegethra said:

It's just the actual game, a couple levels in I get queasy and I can't play comfortably. I haven't done a complete run though Doom 2 in years.

Doom 2 and the Final Doom games set me off. No idea why, never feel this way with the other Doom games, and gaming in general.


Check your settings, you're getting motion sickness. Nothing wrong with Doom 2, just YOU.

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If it's me then changing the settings won't matter....

But really though, any WAD can play the exact same, no effect. Like my WAD, my old 4Doom one, is basically Doom 2, I didn't change anything settings wise, the gameplay, movement, the same but it doesn't make me feel bad.

If it is motion sickness, then I don't know why it is biased towards Doom 2. Doom 1 handles the same but nothing, other people's WADs are fine too. Just Doom 2 and the final Doom levels.

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Perhaps the early level design is trippier for you, like those steps at the beginning of Entryway? They sure look very unusual in the perspective angles you see them at.

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grommile said:

Where the stock IWADs are concerned, I'm sure you're correct, though even from a tooled-up start beating MAP20 without infighting sounds like an exercise in masochism :)


Sure, the Spider Mastermind and Cyberdemon are there specifically to provoke them into infighting, it was done that way on purpose, but you could conceivably beat it without doing that, especially if you're well armed.

Jayextee said:

Map 11 is definitely a highlight of the entire first third of Doom II for me. Romero really flexing his map-making muscles to create a pretty linear experience that doesn't feel so -- but an enjoyable one at that.

It's also visually very interesting, too - probably one of the reasons it was included in the demo roll.


It's certainly a very nostalgic one for me and, since the big O serves as a sort of central hub to go back to, there's a very real sense of progression. I also kind of dig the Healer Stalks music, to me it sounds like cool jazz more than anything else.

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I don't get Refueling Base. It's boxy/canned-feeling shovelware that started out in one of the alphas. Tom Hall was eating pizza and was distracted when he started the design. And this is coming from someone who thinks Monster Condo is one of the better Doom II maps.

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I love Refueling Base for its sheer population, yet I also love Monster Condo for the endless monster traps in the darkness, too! :D

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I agree most of Doom II maps are a challenge mostly because of their size -not because of their complexity. However, I understand that people prefer it to modding because of the new monsters and weapon that can extend the possibilities for their mods. I just can't imagine Ancient Aliens without Arachnotrons, for example.

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Aquanet said:

I don't get Refueling Base. It's boxy/canned-feeling shovelware that started out in one of the alphas. Tom Hall was eating pizza and was distracted when he started the design. And this is coming from someone who thinks Monster Condo is one of the better Doom II maps.

Monster Condo and Refueling Base are night and day for me. Monster Condo is filled with fun combat sequences, and the layout is memorable and easy to understand. Everything gets triggered when it's supposed to, making for clear moments of intense action followed by little reprieves.

I have a feeling Refueling Base might be fun if I could get there with sufficient ammo, or if it were more generous about what it gives you from a pistol start. I don't feel like the resources match the enemy count or placement, especially for level 10. I also feel like the randomness with which enemies can be triggered in neighboring rooms during combat is genuinely a mistake. (Sometimes a Revenant walks into the chain gun room; sometimes he doesn't; sometimes the Arachnotron blue key room gets triggered early, etc.; this is incredibly frustrating on pistol starts.) It bothers me that the safest route bypasses half the map too. Unless you're going for 100%, there's no reason to see several large rooms. That actually crops up a few times in Sandy's Doom 2 maps (large optional areas where the rewards don't match the danger/resource expenditure), and it's something I wish had been a little more fully considered.

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In continuous play, if you come into Refuelling Base dry, you didn't trigger enough infighting during The Pit.

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Is it even possible to run out of ammo in doom1 (except e1m1\e1m2) and doom2 though?
It feels like there is enough ammo on each map to kill double\triple the monsters on it, Sometimes not even including secrets.

Pistol start is better balanced than continuous. It doesn't need to be easier on UV because it is supposed to be the hard difficulty. Although in continuous play it isn't really that hard and forces you to play nightmare if you want a challenge.

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Pegg said:

It doesn't need to be easier on UV because it is supposed to be the hard difficulty.


Quoted for truth. UV isn't the standard a lot of players seem to see it as. Game simply wasn't balanced for UV, and you can see telltale signs all over the IWAD maps of this; stuck UV-only monsters, a lack of UV health, etc.

HMP is 'normal', UV is 'yeah I beat normal and want to make it more interesting'.

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grommile said:

In continuous play, if you come into Refuelling Base dry, you didn't trigger enough infighting during The Pit.

I didn't trigger enough infighting in The Pit then. Doesn't exactly make a difference in how Refueling Base plays as a stand-alone level, as my issues with it extend to how it works from a pistol start, especially for a level 10 entry.

And the issue isn't just that it's difficult, but that the setup and ammo allocation doesn't really operate well with an open, monster-heavy map, nor does it encourage you to explore unless you're going for 100 percent. Anyone just trying to reach the end is going to enter the chaingun room, the yellow key room, the blue key room, then warp behind the Cyber Demon and be done.

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Grazza said:

Ugh, great, another n00b spouting this crap.

Doom2 was better than Doom1 in every respect. Doom2 was the complete game, whereas Doom1 was just the prototype.

Not only that; Doom2 was the best of the iwads, and better than all but a very few later megawads.

Well, someone's an ass kisser.

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Doom 2 added a bulky expansion onto the series, with more textures, enemies, etc. It's not hard to see why it's a fan favorite. The music is also pretty good if you ask me.

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I just played Refueling Base again. I know things about the map, so I ignored some of the helpful secrets (e.g. shotgun near the start, stuff in the dark hitscanner room), but I forgot 80%+ of the content. It was really fun, and I think stacks up favorably to a lot of modern stuff. Tactically none of the combat is demanding on paper, but your route can highly influence how much ammo you have, so it's entirely possible to just run out of ammo with a lot of stuff wandering about, which is quite exciting (those early pain elementals!!!). I think in modern times us mappers try to make things 'fair and balanced', but idk, some of the most fun I've had lately is stumbling into bullshit routes in nonlinear maps and having to evade or fend off lots of stuff with inadequate equipment.

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I fail to understand why people are complaining about Doom 2's difficulty.

DOOM 2 IS MEANT TO BE MORE DIFFICULT!

Id software assumed that people would play the first game first, and master it, before moving on to the next level of difficulty.

Simples, really.

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To be honest I think a lot of us here played them both so much that we no longer realize what made them a challenge. Personally now I find both Iwads a walk in the park.

Compared to first time I played doom with no mouse look nor strafing (Yes, UV no strafing at all, cybers are fun) it is way easier. It might be refreshing for people to retry the iwads with that control scheme and see how different it feels. I feel part of the game was balanced around having a shitty control scheme. (Arrows, Ctrl to shoot, Shift to run (oh ye both iwads are beatable without running (except map02 on doom2, fuck that specific jump, Map30 is really challenging with that).

Then again people would argue control scheme shouldn't\isn't be part of difficulty, And I tell them go try system shock 1 and come back and tell me that shit isn't 90% of the difficulty.

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Pegg said:

I feel part of the game was balanced around having a shitty control scheme.

It's been outright confirmed that it was designed around mouse and keyboard.

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I noticed that adapting a more modernish control scheme in Setup (Even Vanilla Doom) with setting WADS to move, left/right arrow keys to turn, F to fire, and E to use makes for a far more playable experience than the old-school default of arrows to move, ctrl to fire, space to use, and alt to strafe.

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Arctangent said:

It's been outright confirmed that it was designed around mouse and keyboard.


Well then I have no idea what to say beside UV is too easy on the two(Beside a few starting maps.. But that's more E4 and Heretic than doom1\2). But then again I remember the stupid push the mouse does to make using it for this extremely irritating.

And yea the default control scheme is pure rubbish by today standards.

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