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Egg Boy

badrel.wad (single-map PWAD)

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Here's a map I made for a community project a while ago, I didn't get a ton of feedback, and I'd really like to finish this map (I think the opening is really rad).

Have a go at it: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tcfjyg9doahvm6c/badrel.wad

Screenshots:

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20170415_114850.png.be12cfe3e5bec0533277cba21f6e79dc.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170415_114906.png.4d2b1ab78bed35178ef3cd92ca83d6c3.pngScreenshot_Doom_20170325_155423.png.1618d4e78c6fa1b88ed87cb3e539e4c1.png

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I tested this primarily in GZDOOM, so there might be an issue or two in other source ports, despite the fact that I made it in BOOM format.

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I played your map a bit. It requires more resources like ammo and health. If I had more time, I would record demo for you to see what you need change here. Does your map have included skills? 

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1 hour ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

I played your map a bit. It requires more resources like ammo and health. If I had more time, I would record demo for you to see what you need change here. Does your map have included skills? 

Oh! Forgot to mention. No, not at the moment. Also, another note, this is meant to be in the Map10 slot, but I moved it to map01 for convenience. Also: I'll try to add more resources, but I was told by a certain Joe-Ilya that it was too easy.

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1 hour ago, Walter confetti said:

This map is for that Joe-Ilya's project?

Yes. But he wasn't terribly helpful with how I can improve the map, so I was hoping to get some info here. :)

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Nice map, like the secrets. As said before though, little lacking on health and ammo.

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 "Your map needs more of a punch to it, it's an episode ender and I feel like it should be more memorable than it is right now, the monster placement isn't incredibly engaging, I could even call it bland and predictable at times, like that AV at the end, would've been much more memorable if a sea of imps teleported in and a bunch of cacos teleported from the many decorative cliffs on the edge of the map for example, stuff like that is what I want to see in episode enders and starters, a good fun memory, you could even add some more interesting scenery like that tent and campfire area, heck, you could make it look like the map was visited by tourists beforehand and they died there, just another suggestion."
 

So here's Joe's original response to my map. He doesn't seem to like it. I tried to appease him by implementing the imp thingy. But I don't really know how to make the map more engaging or give it more "punch." As you can see from this version I tried the cacodemon and imp thing he suggested, but I don't feel like they add much (The imp trap was originally a few revenants).

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Gave it a spin in GZDoom 2.4 the other day. The problem you're noticing is that the monster density is really, really low. In fact the monster count of 74 (iirc) is misleading, because a lot of those are the imps in the final part that don't do much, as you noted. The level is practically barren. The monster count could rise to 125-150 or so (mostly more low-HP monsters) and still be relatively low-mid density, like something from the early maps of Vanguard. Those distant cacodemons at the blue key add nothing and are incredibly non-threatening, so they can go. The archvile at the end isn't really a threat; fighting it is more about waiting for it to stand still so you can hurl rockets at it from safety below in the water. For the most part, I think more encounters in the map should try to be directly threatening. There is a potential attrition element in that there is no free armor and only a modest amount of health, so you might get in trouble if you happen to take damage in a dicey spot, but with cautious enough play, the level doesn't put up much of a fight. 

 

The highlight was the fight right before the blue key. That was the one encounter that was mildly engaging.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Gave it a spin in GZDoom 2.4 the other day. The problem you're noticing is that the monster density is really, really low. In fact the monster count of 74 (iirc) is misleading, because a lot of those are the imps in the final part that don't do much, as you noted. The level is practically barren. The monster count could rise to 125-150 or so (mostly more low-HP monsters) and still be relatively low-mid density, like something from the early maps of Vanguard. Those distant cacodemons at the blue key add nothing and are incredibly non-threatening, so they can go. The archvile at the end isn't really a threat; fighting it is more about waiting for it to stand still so you can hurl rockets at it from safety below in the water. For the most part, I think more encounters in the map should try to be directly threatening. There is a potential attrition element in that there is no free armor and only a modest amount of health, so you might get in trouble if you happen to take damage in a dicey spot, but with cautious enough play, the level doesn't put up much of a fight. 

 

The highlight was the fight right before the blue key. That was the one encounter that was mildly engaging.

 

 

Thanks for the tips! I suppose I should be more diabolical, that's a problem I notice I run into consistently. In terms of maps, I'm really into flow and non linearity. That house that the Revenant protects, there are 3 ways to get into that place, and you don't even have to go there at all. I think that's why it's hard for me to set up meaningful interactions with Hell-spawn. I think I'm going to try a new variation on this map that will (hopefully) be more brutal. Again, thank you for the input, I'll be back when I have the new iteration. 

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In line with what others have said, there's something off to me about how the map's challenge element fits with its size and architecture. I think the opening is strong, up to and including where you hit the blood-covered switch to lower the walls down to reveal a much larger play area. The thing is, it feels kind of like a ghost town after it opens up. The main challenge comes from attrition and resource management, which works to a certain extent--certainly it's more engaging than it would be if there was abundant health/ammo and the same enemy placement. But the attrition doesn't really propel the gameplay. For me, it felt like ambling from one small, relatively manageable encounter to another. Contrast this to the shining example of this kind of gameplay, IMHO, Double Impact, where you fight *lots* of small encounters that chip away at your health, have to deal with random hitscanners wandering by and surprising you, and maps are punctuated by really threatening moments--there's a really dynamic push-pull going on that keeps you moving, hunting for resources, and managing combat. That said, I'm not yet convinced that attrition is the kind of gameplay that is going to make the (often strong) space and architecture you've constructed here shine. 

 

A couple of other stray notes:

  • Visually, there is actually something that really works for me about the "ghost town" vibe. It's maybe something you could play with more, say if there was a point when the open space went from *really* empty to *really* full of threats. The brown and metal mix generally works really nicely, although I think it does make it a challenge to integrate other colors and textures (I wasn't really feeling the black/yellow safety stripes, they seemed really out of character).
  • Playing on GzDoom 2.3.2, something went wrong with the final encounter and the imps didn't spawn in. I wandered around for a while wondering where the remaining monsters were, and finally found the imp closet. Oddly, the imps had already woken up, but they didn't start teleporting until I shot one of them through the wall. Not sure what was going on, but definitely double-check the setup there. 

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On 6/21/2017 at 11:46 PM, Big Ol Billy said:

In line with what others have said, there's something off to me about how the map's challenge element fits with its size and architecture. I think the opening is strong, up to and including where you hit the blood-covered switch to lower the walls down to reveal a much larger play area. The thing is, it feels kind of like a ghost town after it opens up. The main challenge comes from attrition and resource management, which works to a certain extent--certainly it's more engaging than it would be if there was abundant health/ammo and the same enemy placement. But the attrition doesn't really propel the gameplay. For me, it felt like ambling from one small, relatively manageable encounter to another. Contrast this to the shining example of this kind of gameplay, IMHO, Double Impact, where you fight *lots* of small encounters that chip away at your health, have to deal with random hitscanners wandering by and surprising you, and maps are punctuated by really threatening moments--there's a really dynamic push-pull going on that keeps you moving, hunting for resources, and managing combat. That said, I'm not yet convinced that attrition is the kind of gameplay that is going to make the (often strong) space and architecture you've constructed here shine. 

 

A couple of other stray notes:

  • Visually, there is actually something that really works for me about the "ghost town" vibe. It's maybe something you could play with more, say if there was a point when the open space went from *really* empty to *really* full of threats. The brown and metal mix generally works really nicely, although I think it does make it a challenge to integrate other colors and textures (I wasn't really feeling the black/yellow safety stripes, they seemed really out of character).
  • Playing on GzDoom 2.3.2, something went wrong with the final encounter and the imps didn't spawn in. I wandered around for a while wondering where the remaining monsters were, and finally found the imp closet. Oddly, the imps had already woken up, but they didn't start teleporting until I shot one of them through the wall. Not sure what was going on, but definitely double-check the setup there. 

Thanks, again! I've basically torn the whole map apart (I kept the intro) I'm planning on using the same basic layout but spicing it up and making it more interesting.

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23 minutes ago, Lo_Mein said:

Thanks, again! I've basically torn the whole map apart (I kept the intro) I'm planning on using the same basic layout but spicing it up and making it more interesting.

No need for me to echo what rdwpa said already... One thing I would like to add though is that a filesize of 13MB or so is a bit daunting. Might be a good idea to shave off unused assets in SLADE, and also stay away from mediafire. Use dropbox and create a direct download link, or the, in my opinion, second best alternative: google.drive or whatever that's called.

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