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everennui

Using resources from Realm667.

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These are there for anyone to use, right? I know there's a donation button on the website. I appreciate all the work that went into creating all the sprites. I've decided to make a donation, but it'll have to be tomorrow after I get paid. ...and it's probably only going to be 10.00 because I'm more or less broke. 

Okay, here's what I need to know.

I'm using a bunch of assets from http://www.realm667.com and my intention is to make a mod that replaces the characters in Doom.
 

These are the weapons and monsters that I'll use.

As you can see there's a long list of credits, and that's not even including the items and props (yet).

After asking how a couple of people felt in a twitch chat, the general consensus is that I should ask the people who contributed if I can modify their work. I'm not sure what the best way of doing this is so I'm just going to do it like this.

 

 


@Dreadopp @Sandypaper @Tormentor667 @Ghastly_dragon @RottKing @Vader @scalliano @DavidRaven @Xim @JoeyTD @Marty Razor Kirra @Woolie Wool @Mike12 @solarsnowfall @Enjay @DavidN @eriance @KeksDose @devloek @Wolfsinger @cosmicD @robinhood76 @Graf Zahl @Toke @Rhoq @aerial @magicwizard @HorrorMovieGuy @Captain Toenail @kuju @TheMightyHeracross @Blue Monday @IDGam3r @lolo_is_cool @Xaser @idgamer @alando1 @osjclatchford @magicwazard @dbj87jb @KRoNoS @BloodyAcid @Mor'ladim @fate

 
 

 


Many of you are multiple contributors.

Is it cool if I mashup all your monsters and guns and edit the decorate and make slight modifications to sprites (key so far) to balance my mod?

If anyone else knows some of the non-linked, "shout outs" or whatever they're called, please @ them to this thread. Thank you.

I kind of feel like this might be a little over kill, but I just want to cover my bases and be respectful of everyone who has contributed.

This thread will be crossposted on my thread for the project when I get further along with it. I really haven't felt like doing much Doom related, but in the back of my head I'm pretty excited about this.

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yes, they are available for you to use.

 

my suggestion is to use them sparingly as most people are much more interested in seeing what you can create vs. what you can compile together from other peoples work.

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44 minutes ago, everennui said:

After asking how a couple of people felt in a twitch chat, the general consensus is that I should ask the people who contributed if I can modify their work. I'm not sure what the best way of doing this is so I'm just going to do it like this.

This is true if you're grabbing stuff from somebody else's mapset or whatever, but if something is in the Realm667 Repository, you already have permission to do whatever you want with it (except claim it as your own). That's what the Repository is there for.

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3 hours ago, 40oz said:

yes, they are available for you to use.

 

my suggestion is to use them sparingly as most people are much more interested in seeing what you can create vs. what you can compile together from other peoples work.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, eh? Maybe I'm wrong. What's your monster /item replacement mod called? There's quiet a bit more involved than that. Balancing monsters and guns and playing something over and over to find how to best impliment everything is pretty invested. If I'm asking for content creators permission to edit the monsters I would consider that to be a bit more than a compilation.

 

I even have a story.

 

I get this is the official blanket statement anyone who tries to do anything outside of conventional Doom stuff gets. I've saw it here a few times and heard it passively (erectile dysfunctionally soft) countless times on Twitch. I'm interested in what I can create with my customized and balanced compilation of other people's work that I don't have the inclination to do myself. Otherwise why would I do it?

 

If I needed to pay attention to what other people are interested in, I'd probably have a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. I find it highly improbable that no one besides me will ever play it and if I am proud of my work then I'm good. I'll know it's good if I think it's good.

 

Everyone on this forum will probably hate it because it changes mechanics of Doom.

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5 minutes ago, everennui said:

That's a bit of an oversimplification, eh? Maybe I'm wrong. What's your monster /item replacement mod called? There's quiet a bit more involved than that. Balancing monsters and guns and playing something over and over to find how to best impliment everything is pretty invested. If I'm asking for content creators permission to edit the monsters I would consider that to be a bit more than a compilation.

 

I even have a story.

 

I get this is the official blanket statement anyone who tries to do anything outside of conventional Doom stuff gets. I've saw it here a few times and heard it passively (erectile dysfunctionally soft) countless times on Twitch. I'm interested in what I can create with my customized and balanced compilation of other people's work that I don't have the inclination to do myself. Otherwise why would I do it?

 

If I needed to pay attention to what other people are interested in, I'd probably have a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. I find it highly improbable that no one besides me will ever play it and if I am proud of my work then I'm good. I'll know it's good if I think it's good.

 

Everyone on this forum will probably hate it because it changes mechanics of Doom.

I won't hate your mod,shhh. Also, you should post this in zdoom forum too. If you look beyond this forum, a lot of people like well-made mods. Sure, you'll get some hate and criticism, but it's part of mod/map creation. Go for it, nobody is perfect. 

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40's advice is correct and you'd do well to not brush it off. Best of luck that you don't wind up wasting time making something nobody will play as you compete with the thousands of other zDoom mods.

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Not to derail this too much, but Fonze and 40oz are right in saying that custom enemies should be used with a modicum of pickyness, unless you want your mod to be as non-doom-ish as it possibly can be. In the latter case, go ahead and grab what you want, but make sure things end up being different enough in behaviour and function, or you have a gameplay-murk...

 

In my opinion, eventhough I gave the set a bit of flak gameplay wise, descension is a good example of how to use custom assets well, if the intention is to compliment the standard doom roster.

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4 hours ago, 40oz said:

yes, they are available for you to use.

 

my suggestion is to use them sparingly as most people are much more interested in seeing what you can create vs. what you can compile together from other peoples work.

 

3 minutes ago, Fonze said:

40's advice is correct and you'd do well to not brush it off. Best of luck that you don't wind up wasting time making something nobody will play as you compete with the thousands of other zDoom mods.

 

This is the sort of unhelpful "advice" that I talked about elsewhere. He already said that he planned on making edits to the Realm667 stuff, and at the moment he only has a picture of some sprites that he intends to start with, so there's nothing to criticize. Yeah, Realm667 stuff is often used haphazardly, without inspiration or creativity. So is original Doom stuff. Let's not pre-judge.

 

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I think it's fine to edit Realm667's items, since it's a repository and sometimes you need to make the proper adjustments for balance's sake.

As for me, I'm fine with people using and editing my stuff so long as they credit it. So go wild!

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Sorry, I responded during a bathroom break and didn't read very far beyond the first paragraph before posting.

 

I just wanted to be careful not to suggest that its a free resource and you should saturate your project with all the cool stuff you can find instead of trying to make stuff yourself. (ive seen more than a few projects that do this)

If you have good ideas, that's fine. But even heavily modified sprites from the community doesn't mean anything differently to me than heavily modified sunlust maps or heavily modified Duke Nukem 3D textures. Anything you create from scratch is generally more appreciated even if it doesnt look as good as what you can lift from elsewhere.

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Much of the stuff on Realm667 is very cool.  The issue is people are often like a kid in a candy store with it and use EVERYTHING they can.  But just a handful of new things really well can really make something stand out.

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... Right benjo. And I think your cheapening of good advice is unhelpful.

 

40 just said use them sparingly, everennui brushed the comment off, and so I reiterated the point, using the same dismissive tone as everennui, that 40's advice is the right advice.

 

I'm all for trying something different, but we have to be real about what is going on and what difficulties that approach is going to have to face. Don't encourage somebody learning to ride a bike to jump 10 busses at 100 mph. Start small.

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idgames ensures through its submission process that a license accompanies every single file. I don't see the same for Realm667, so I would suppose any file downloadable without one can technically be ripped apart and sewn together at your whim. (If nothing else they don't make it easy to find such a license: hopefully someone else knows better.) Every Reallm667 submission has to include attributions, which is kind of like a permissions agreement in that it likely won't be accepted into the Realm667 repository unless the submitter has all these things in order: on the other hand, it doesn't prevent anyone else from using it and not applying the same credit.

I suppose the ethical thing-to-do would be to attribute whenever possible: the few sample cases I downloaded from Realm667 included a CREDITS text lump. You'll want to take that big listing of credits you have and either make your own CREDITS lump or simply include it in some textfile to be distributed alongside your mod. Furthermore, as your mod will contain these shared elements, it follows to further allow others the permission to modify and reuse your own work in their own (again, as long as they attribute the original to you and everyone you originally attributed). As for whether or not you require active permission from the authors, I would say the answer is no: the authors knew the consequences when submitting their work to Realm667, and you should feel free to do what you want with it.

 

I could probably go on at length about the connotations of using shared resources and whether or not the modder is appropriately justifying their usage, but that has nothing to do with the OP's intentions. Ultimately, the fact that these resources require *ZDoom in the first place limits the amount of useful feedback you'll find here (where many source ports are used) as opposed to, say, ZDoom forums (where the *ZDoom usage is 100%). You may be better off searching for answers there.

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3 hours ago, Fonze said:

... Right benjo. And I think your cheapening of good advice is unhelpful.

 

40 just said use them sparingly, everennui brushed the comment off, and so I reiterated the point, using the same dismissive tone as everennui, that 40's advice is the right advice.

 

I'm all for trying something different, but we have to be real about what is going on and what difficulties that approach is going to have to face. Don't encourage somebody learning to ride a bike to jump 10 busses at 100 mph. Start small.

 

I dunno man! I'm not gonna defend everennui's response (heh), but this line of advice is condescending, predictable, and stifling. It's like "oh I see there's a baron of hell in the screenshot of your WIP vanilla map; make sure you use those sparingly because people always screw that up." Is it valid advice? Yeah I guess so, but maybe he has good ideas about how to use barons, and maybe barons are important to his vision.

 

Maybe overhauling the Doom bestiary is important to his vision. I'm confident that cool things can be made with a purely Realm667 bestiary. I'm not gonna assume either way if everennui is capable of doing that.

 

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Fair enough.

 

I mean, its all subjective anyway. I'm just speaking from my personal experience and what ive observed around the community.

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Everyone sees it. ZDoom/Doomworld forums are filled to the brim with stuff I'd never play. Someone else would though. Maybe there are some, absolutely no one would enjoy or give a chance. That doesn't mean their time was wasted. This is just like any other hobby. You get better by doing it. I do find that comment stifling and slightly condescending. It's not YOU saying it, it's me hearing it for the seventh time. People in this community seem to offer a lot of advice about personal taste.

 

Being here for a year and a half has allowed me to see this immediately dismissive attitude toward people who don't make maps in the, "right" format. It's no one in particular, but the spoonfed, regurgitated opinions of some people really do make me feel unwelcome here and I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've talked with other people who feel like the Doom community is kind of cold.

 

You'd think people would be excited anytime anyone is willing to invest their time into Doom.

 

I don't operate out of fear, and I'm going to pursue my vision even with the looming forgone conclusion of forum obscurity.

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People may be interested in what you create yourself, but the stuff on 667 is meant to be used by the community. Whether the resources should be used sparingly depends on your vision and how the entire package comes together.

 

I say go for it, make what you want. If you have ideas for interesting and different ways to use the resources, give it a try. Be open to feedback on your product, of course, but don't be afraid to use what's available to you.

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I think the fact that a lot of mods have poorly spammed R667 assets without thought to coherence (either gameplay or artistic) has naturally made us suspicious of such things, but if a mapper actually devotes some attention to making sure everything meshes well, I don't see the problem with all of the monsters being R667-based. It wasn't said whether the ones in the OP were meant to complement the stock bestiary (some stock monsters will fit alongside those, and some probably won't) or work entirely as a standalone set. In the second case, there could be even more variety in the top row: one or two monsters with fatter hitboxes, one or two monsters that aren't bipedal and skinny, and a larger flying monster. Some degree of visual contrast is good for gameplay and memorability, and many of those monsters look similar to one another.

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Just don't advertise the fact that you used them. People won't complain about what they don't know.

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I love custom stuff from realm 667. It activates my brain and takes me off autopilot when I encounter something new. Go nuts I say.

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On 6/21/2017 at 10:46 AM, 40oz said:

my suggestion is to use them sparingly as most people are much more interested in seeing what you can create vs. what you can compile together from other peoples work.

This. Also, make sure everything you use has its own reason for being there. I've seen too many wads that have three or four different kinds of imp that don't actually add anything, for example. There was no actual variety because the player handles them exactly the same way.

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The best thing you can do with R667 stuff is to never take it at face value. Sure, they're already fully functional on their own, especially for mappers who just want to drop something new into their project, but if you look at them as resources that you can build upon, there's a lot of room for further creativity. I often download R667 monsters only to completely throw out their Decorate code and start from the top, apply my own sounds and recolor the sprites (whether with a translation or actually exporting the graphics and using Photoshop to mess with the H/S/L values).

 

And yeah, as has been said, don't go overboard (not right away anyway). As much as variety can be said to be the spice of life, less is more. Inundating the player with a huge mess of new stuff will make it more difficult for them to understand what makes each individual element unique, especially if you're just dumping in every zombie you can find. (I've done that before. Doesn't really work.)

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The thing about my wad is that the story sets the environment as a different universe. I want to add enough variety to clearly illustrate that it isn't as much Doom as it's a story that uses Doom's basic premise. The teleport technology has taken you to a new time line in a different multiverse. I may end up keeping the Revenant and Archvile because they're great monsters, but I feel like with the visual variety it will help with the tone and feel.

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we've all seen the countless realm667 compilation 'download every monster on the website' mods so that's why several people just told you the same thing. trying to keep you out of the pit trap there. I don't think aeons of death is getting surpassed anytime soon anyway.

 

realm667 is probably going to be most useful to you just for sprites, because getting brand new sprites in doom can be a circus trick (unless you are a spriter or 3d modeler yourself lol). sound effects are way easier to rip from anything and you should probably just rewrite all the code and behavior because the brusierdemon and friends are just about as exciting as seeing a zombieman in e1m1. btw recolors and simple edits in paint can go along way for some of these. you can complement the doom bestiary or actually make new strides because all the doom monsters were built for corridor mazeland and small rooms or just make your own game type of thing. ditto all of this stuff for weapons/items. don't forget about new textures please god the vanilla doom2 textures are boring as hell

 

just copy paste the resource title + credit tab from r667 into your wad's credit folder and you are ok. don't bother contacting 20 authors that won't respond anyway; it's on r667 so you can use it.

 

also big boy tormentor669 will be happy about that donation make sure u beg him for vip or something

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There's no need for arguing. My advice for Everennui is to experiment and have fun!

 

I understand the stigma that some people don't like new content, but in reality, most people here don't mind new stuff at all. It's the gameplay and how said content is implemented that matters.

 

I've downloaded a number of stuff from Realm667 and experimented with it. My current resource wads contain stuff from that site alongside custom things of my own creation. Importantly, these resource wads are not final versions, but merely practice. Realm667 is a great starting point to learn new features, find out how monsters and items are coded, how they can be customized and utilized in new ways, etc. Having Realm667 content in a final release is also perfectly fine.

 

But through experimenting with new content long enough, I've learned that certain things can be cut out for the benefit of the project. It's cool having a variety of zombie scientist to battle, but odds are most will be unnecessary or redundant, and not add much to gameplay. (An exception would be if the wad's theme relied heavily enough on said scientists.)

 

Playtesting is key. Try out monsters, items, and weapons in all sorts of situations, and build test maps that are essentially arenas to see how new everything interacts. Another thing you can do, as I've done, is release practice levels with beta resource wads, and receive feedback.

 

Most people here won't mind if your wad changes the mechanics of Doom, as long as it's still fun to play. I'm looking forward to trying out this project, and seeing how it progresses! :)

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