Depending on your ear, modern metal isn't very "heavy"

[rehelekretep]

1 hour ago, kb1 said:

I decide what I like and don't like, and it's not really something I have control of, it just happens. And if I can't control it, no one else has a chance. Unless they play some good metal.

 

You can use any label you want. Music is a personal experience, which means that I decide what is metal or not, for me. I love that which I describe as metal, and those linked bands surely ain't it. So, where does that leave us?

 

I would suggest using your own judgement, and avoiding trying to dictate what everyone else should think and feel. Again, I wanted to like those bands, but I just don't. I will continue to look for music I like, and I will continue to categorize it as I hear it.

 

Don't you want the truth? Or, do you prefer to dictate?

 

[kb1]

1 hour ago, Megalyth said:

Comedy gold, 10/10, post of the century.

 

Practice what you're preaching if you expect to be taken seriously.

Always do. Thanks for noticing. It is pretty funny.

 

1 hour ago, Ajora said:

 

An awesome album. It,s right up there with Powerslave.

 

1 hour ago, rehelekretep said:

yeah, genres dont work that way, considering theyre commonly accepted terms for describing music to other people you dont get to unilaterally decide what is and isnt metal

"Commonly accepted"... By who? Who is graced with this ultimate power to claim this and that. What do you mean "I don't get to decide"? I just did. And, I'll do it again.

 

If I play 3 chords on a guitar (G, D, and C), are you going to be able to classify it, with 100% accuracy? What if a add a drummer, bass, and a singer? Is there some rulebook I missed?

 

Let's see: G, D, C...hmm, could be country. Hmmm...(flips pages in the magic genre rulebook)...Page 112: If the singer has long hair, check sex. If male, BAM it's metal. If female, hmmm...(flips pages).... On and on.

 

Genres are subjective. Genres promote prejudice for or against the song, allowing the would-be listener to prejudge whether or not they want to try the song. Genres are a guess - an attempt to provide a way to sort your music. But, they are only a reough guess, becuase musicians are influenced by all of the music they have ever heard, and that is often reflected in the music. There are no "commonly accepted terms". That's just someone's story.

 

Now, I know that there are institutions out there, that claim to be authorities in music classification, that classify songs and bands under some genre. But, essentially, even then someone just picked a genre for each one, a bit arbitrarily, but mainly based on their personal experience.

 

Which brings us full circle. Which genre a piece of music is in is a personal choice. Think of the Ramones, who were classified as Punk Rock, though they had long hair, distorted electric guitars, and fast beats. What about Micheal Jackson's "Beat It", which could be a dance number and/or "Pop", though Eddie Van Halen does a wicked metal-like guitar solo. What about newer "country" bands that crank up the fuzz on their guitars? It's all individually subjectively a personal choice.

 

[rehelekretep]

you are one dense motherfucker

if you cant grasp the benefits of having a majority agreed differentiation of music into rough genre classification then i dont know what to say

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre

[rehelekretep]

p.s. guys in my opinion doom is a second-person perspective platformer/role-playing game you cant tell me any different!

[kb1]

19 minutes ago, rehelekretep said:

you are one dense motherfucker

Yeah, I'll accept that. I just don't like to give in to mob mentality. It's easy to do, and it's dangerous. I try to trust my instincts. When there's a disagreement, it's important to let people know that not everyone agrees with the norm. The least path of resistance is to align with the majority position. But, it's important to consider that the majority position may or may not be true. Or that, maybe, there is no one true answer. Sometimes it's important to understand why we make the decisions we make: Is this how I truly feel, or did I just follow the crowd?

 

In this thread, it seems that there is a lot of opposition to people thinking for themselves, and reporting on that process. I wish for people to consider that statement, and think about why they oppose a different choice.

Edited August 23, 2017 by kb1

[kb1]

15 minutes ago, rehelekretep said:

p.s. guys in my opinion doom is a second-person perspective platformer/role-playing game you cant tell me any different!

It's a bit different when you describe a specific situation that can be scientifically proven, vs. a subjective description. But if you just want to "win the thread", go for it - it's all yours:

 

Peter wins!! Yay!!

[rehelekretep]

6 hours ago, kb1 said:

Yeah, I'll accept that. I just don't like to give in to mob mentality. It's easy to do, and it's dangerous. I try to trust my instincts. When there's a disagreement, it's important to let people know that not everyone agrees with the norm. The least path of resistance is to align with the majority position. But, it's important to consider that the majority position may or may not be true. Or that, maybe, there is no one true answer. Sometimes it's important to understand why we make the decisions we make: Is this how I truly feel, or did I just follow the crowd?

 

In this thread, it seems that there is a lot of opposition to people thinking for themselves, and reporting on that process. I wish for people to consider that statement, and think about why they oppose a different choice.

not following majority opinion/being sceptical/considering alternative views is a perfectly reasonable position/value to hold; but its context dependent. when you describe yourself as independent and free-minded when talking about something that was formulated in agreement with others to make discussing/categorising/labelling music easier you just come across as bizarre:

 

'er hello im here to buy some metal music, what do you have?'

"well sir we have some new Asking Alexandra..."

'thats not real cvlt metal, how dare you!'

"..."

[Cruduxy Pegg]

how the musician looks has no part in the music genre rofl. Same with their gender and age.

 

Music genres are exactly like game genres, many songs bleed into several of them but they are there to try and help people find songs to their tastes, not some kind of spiritual quest.

[Cynical]

4 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

not following majority opinion/being sceptical/considering alternative views is a perfectly reasonable position/value to hold; but its context dependent. when you describe yourself as independent and free-minded when talking about something that was formulated in agreement with others to make discussing/categorising/labelling music easier you just come across as bizarre:

 

'er hello im here to buy some metal music, what do you have?'

"well sir we have some new Asking Alexandra..."

'thats not real cvlt metal, how dare you!'

"..."

Asking Alexandra not being metal has nothing to do with it not being "kvlt" and everything to do with its lack of metal riffs.

[rehelekretep]

[Mr. Freeze]

 

I dunno, this sounds 1000x more metal to me than Ghost or Stone Sour or whatever stupid bullshit currently floating around on Blabbermouth is. 

[rehelekretep]

Asking Alexandria wasnt the point >.<

[baja blast rd.]

I've decided that metal is my favorite type of spider. Great discussion guys! Nice to see arthropods getting some love on DW. 

[Cynical]

1 hour ago, Mr. Freeze said:

 

I dunno, this sounds 1000x more metal to me than Ghost or Stone Sour or whatever stupid bullshit currently floating around on Blabbermouth is. 

Ghost and Stone Sour aren't metal either...

[[McD] James]

There's nothing metal about a bunch of epicene eunuchs whining about how hard their life is because they ran out of nail polish. 

 

I don't consider Ghost to be metal, but I seem to be in the minority of those who think that. They fit better into the mould of progressive/psychedelic rock than they do metal. Don't really care either way. I love Ghost.

[Koko Ricky]

What are we even talking about at this point?

[UglyStru]

3 hours ago, Ajora said:

There's nothing metal about a bunch of epicene eunuchs whining about how hard their life is because they ran out of nail polish. 

You're right, but people often think that's all newer "metal" consists of. Asking Alexandria, BVB, Attack Attack, etc. They all want to pair those bands up with solid bands like Veil of Maya, Whitechapel, Thy Art is Murder, Fit for an Autopsy, etc. And if you go down the chain even further, you reach Black Sabbath and Metallica or whatever you old heads listen to now. They all evolved from one another and because of this, they get generalized together. Why we didn't just come up with a whole new genre for everything instead of all this subgenre bullshit? I couldn't tell you why. But that's just the way it is, and whining about it on a forum consisting of 150 eastern Europeans isn't going to change it. 

[kb1]

12 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

not following majority opinion/being sceptical/considering alternative views is a perfectly reasonable position/value to hold; but its context dependent. when you describe yourself as independent and free-minded when talking about something that was formulated in agreement with others to make discussing/categorising/labelling music easier you just come across as bizarre:

 

'er hello im here to buy some metal music, what do you have?'

"well sir we have some new Asking Alexandra..."

'thats not real cvlt metal, how dare you!'

"..."

Again, what others? Nothing was "formulated", some twat just made a choice and published it somewhere. I realize it's helpful to be able to categorize things that are organized. But when an item can be broken down into subcategories, it makes sense to throw a descriptor in front of the category. Soft-Rock, 70's Rock.

 

However, if the item in question is completely unrelated to all the current categories, you must make a new category to describe said object. You should not pick one of the existing categories, and add a descriptor in front of it, otherwise you misrepresent the item.

 

The real shame here is that this is just one more example where today's youth is being led to settle for less, being taught to be satisfied with less, with the memory of better times being systematically eradicated. This is also why Doom 4 was simply called Doom: The legacy of idTech1 gets "overwritten", only to be remembered by the "stubborn oldtimers who cling on to their shitty little game, coming across as pedantic dicks, acting dense and bizarre." (Yeah I took a bit of artistic license there :)

 

I'm not wanting to argue, or be stubborn. But I think it's a god damn crime to be in this age of information, and yet, watch as history disappears, and that which I remember and know to be good gets replaced with mediocre substitutes.

 

Notes:

• The Asking Alexandria at least has some harmony and melody, when the singer actually tries to sing.
• Doom 4 actually rocks (at least from what I've seen - I refuse to buy a game where I can't install it with the internet, and I don't get a physical box, a physical disk, and a physical owner's manual. Yet another example of getting less. Nowadays, people actually argue that this is better: trees and all) But, Doom 4 isn't Doom as we know it. There are countless threads on DW with people complaining that their friends won't touch Doom/Doom II. Many kids can't sit still long enough to try the old stuff - there's not enough explosions, volumetric shadows, dynamic lighting, etc.

This is why I fight for the metal category to stay what it is: It's because I know the difference, and I can remember when things were better. Instead of laughing off stories from the "old guys", you do yourself a disservice by not learning about the past, from someone who shoots straight. How do you know where your at, if you don't know how you got there?

 

See things as you wish. But note that, you will see things colored by your experiences which change, over time, if you continue to seek older knowledge, and new experience. One day, you might even find yourself feeling the way I do.

 

[rehelekretep]

yeah, Jimmy Metal decided what the genre of metal was, what a twat.

[rehelekretep]

@kb1 you listen to traditional heavy metal, other people are listening to other types of metal, you cant decide what 'metal' is on your own, its like deciding that 'pineapple' means getting bummed by a German; that's fine, but if you go anywhere and ask for a pineapple youre going to get a fruit, not a bumming.

[Cynical]

Trying to redefine "metal" to mean "gay kids with too much eyeliner" is the redefinition here.

[kb1]

3 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

yeah, Jimmy Metal decided what the genre of metal was, what a twat.

Who the fuck is Jimmy Metal?

 

3 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

@kb1 you listen to traditional heavy metal, other people are listening to other types of metal, you cant decide what 'metal' is on your own, its like deciding that 'pineapple' means getting bummed by a German; that's fine, but if you go anywhere and ask for a pineapple youre going to get a fruit, not a bumming.

No, I listen to metal. Those other people are listening to something that's not metal. I can surely decide what metal is.

And, that bothers you to the point that you start using sodomy and rape to sell your ideas. My God, you proceed to call me dense, yet it is you that missed 95% of what I said.

 

It seems that you're just trying to get a laugh. I rest my case.

 

2 hours ago, Cynical said:

Trying to redefine "metal" to mean "gay kids with too much eyeliner" is the redefinition here.

Exactly.

 

@GoatLord I don't know. Once again, I made the fatal mistake of voicing my opinion, which sometimes isn't tolerated well. Sorry for the intrusion. Back to the evils of compression causing saturation in new recordings.

[rehelekretep]

you are literally impossible

[UglyStru]

14 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

@kb1 its like deciding that 'pineapple' means getting bummed by a German; that's fine, but if you go anywhere and ask for a pineapple youre going to get a fruit, not a bumming.

Well if that wasn't the greatest analogy of I've ever heard. 

[dew]

Damn, this thread is still running in a circle.

 

I listen to metal music and I went to metal gigs and festivals a bunch of times, but I'd rather chew off my foot and flee like a trapped animal over being called a "metal fan", because I might be associated with the wonderful people who argue what qualifies as metal.

[Benjogami]

[kb1]

12 hours ago, rehelekretep said:

you are literally impossible

...to manipulate? To get me to drop my values? Believe me, it's not impossible. But, you gotta do better than that: "Hmmm, telling him I'm right he's wrong...that didn't work... Hey, I know, make an irrelevant insult - that'll prove I'm right!"

 

9 hours ago, stru said:

Well if that wasn't the greatest analogy of I've ever heard. 

Huh? It's basically the equivalent to "I know you are, but what am I?". Ah, to be a child again.

4 hours ago, dew said:

Damn, this thread is still running in a circle.

 

I listen to metal music and I went to metal gigs and festivals a bunch of times, but I'd rather chew off my foot and flee like a trapped animal over being called a "metal fan", because I might be associated with the wonderful people who argue what qualifies as metal.

I think chewing off your foot automatically makes you an honorary fan :)

4 hours ago, Benjogami said:

That kicks ass! Oh, wait, is that good or bad? BTW, love the 666 reference.

[DesecratorJ]

I stopped considering myself as a "metalhead" or as a part of a metal community years ago. I'm glad I did, I listen to music that sound good to my ears. That's about it. I realized that arguing about shit with people like that is useless, and at this point, I was just like yeah,yeah, ok, whatever. Each person seems to have its own definition on what is "real" or not. But at the end, who cares? Just listen to what you like and don't give a fuck about it. Not having respect for other music genres that you don't like is a whole other thing though.

[kb1]

I think the music industry's methods might indirectly promote or enable the formation, or duration of these cliques. They take simple songs and try to elevate them into social/political statements with deep messages that impressionable minds can latch onto. They're not selling songs, they're selling some sort of experience, a way of life, with a powerful message. Strange. They seem to be able to sell just about anything this way.

 

At some point in life, this becomes transparent to the listener, and then you just want something that sounds good.

 

I've always thought of myself as liking a broad range of types. Yet, I've already developed an idea of what I like and don't like, so I'm sure this range has narrowed considerably.

 

I can't remember ever having to do a lot of arguing about music. Then again, I'm sure everyone knows exactly what I've been saying. Some people just get off on conflict, I guess. I, for one, am thoroughly sick of discussing it.

[UglyStru]

@kb1 elitists like you are what makes certain communities so toxic

 

can you just like your own shit in peace?