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hardcore_gamer

Megawads vs Megamaps

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Which do you like more, megawads (lots of levels in a wad) or megamaps (a single very large level)? What do you consider to be the pros and cons of each?

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Sure megawad !

Playing the same map with the same music and gameplay for long time sounds boring.

 

Its funny cus I published many megamaps so far

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Personally I much prefer shorter maps, meaning everything sub 20:00 UVmax possible. Everything above that isn't my cup of tea. Still I'm sitting inbetween the chairs a little, because I love me a good marathon on accasion... Having megawads with maps which take like +30 minutes on average sound more like work to me than actual fun...

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My preference is definitely a relatively large number of short maps (Plutonia has almost perfect map lengths for me), though marathon maps are alright sometimes. I loved the original ZDCMP, though I'm still yet to give 2 a try.

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Yup, megawads of megamaps. Only half joking...

 

I appreciate a megamap as a one-off project, and I think they can be better for some authors' sanity...

 

But I really appreciate a megawad that builds flow through a single episode, or better yet, multi-episodic theme in the bigger ones. Start with small, tight maps and build to more expansive ones with bigger monster counts, more and tougher secrets etc. Making the most out of the secret maps scores highly with me. I know modern ports take away the need to be tied to the 32 map and episodic shifts, but I think it's somehow just right and if done well, it's the best.

 

People often knock Evilution, but I thought it did this particularly well. Some tough, tight maps, then more expansive tech maps before a hell themed last ten maps. Always best to end with hell.

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I prefer a megawad as while I don't have anything against megamaps, it can be tiresome to replay a megamap since it might take like 20-30 minutes to revisit everything pretty much and well it can drag on. Also I guess I like having multiple maps to replay on more than anything.

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Yeah, in theory, I think my ideal mapset would be a megaWAD of megamaps (or one where the smallest maps are more like "medium" in size, let's say), with the dreamy assumption that they'd all be "good", of course, whatever that means. A few such full-length WADs that are mostly full of big/long maps do exist, of course, and while I've got generally positive feelings about a number of them they all do tend to suffer to a greater or lesser degree from periodic repetitiveness or maps where it feels like there's really not much going on, which I suppose is a good incidental argument in favor of long sets that mix bigger maps with shorter and more focused/controlled ones as pacers or interludes.

 

By contrast, outside of certain types of gimmick/concept or the special touch of particular designers (more than one of which I've been privileged to know!), mapsets where the whole set consists of short maps as a matter of design spec usually seem a bit wanting in some way to me, though I can usually recognize/respect a well-made WAD in that pattern when I see one. I think pritch touched on this nicely, one thing I really like in a longer set is a real sense of dramatic arc/escalation, away from smaller/more focused maps with straightforward themes towards more expansive and ambitious levels with more fanciful locales, though I'm not really invested in the notion that the endgame setting always needs to be Hell per se (or that the midgame setting needs to be a city/sci-fi x Hell mashup, or that the early game setting needs to be techbase/earth).

 

All that aside, I'm also very fond of huge one-off maps, which precisely by dint of being one-time visits can have a certain immersive snapshot quality to them that is quite different from but equally as enjoyable as a well-conducted sense of progression/journey over the course of a longer mapset. It's also perhaps easier by design to take a sort of "kitchen sink" approach vis-a-vis pacing and encounter design and have it read naturally in the context of one big single map, I suspect, which can make for very memorable experiences in the right hands. Handled poorly you can of course easily end up with something that reads like an intractable morass of yardwork where the sheer amount of content turns something which might otherwise be merely mediocre into something actively torturous--something like "Citadel on the Edge of Eternity" from the first CChest being an infamous example, let's say--but many of my fondest Doom experiences, past and present, have come in huge maps wrought by skilled hands. I guess I'd also say that even "bad" megamaps are often more interesting to me than merely 'competent' or unassuming short maps, in the sense that I appreciate being able to remember them for more than a day after playing, but I reckon there's probably an argument to be made that 10 minutes of pleasant (if forgettable) play are time better spent than 90 minutes of janky, ultimately unfulfilling faffing about in Imagination Land, which leave a memory of mild trauma if nothing else.

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Definitely megawads, I personally don't care if maps are longer than the standard, as long as they fit my tastes. Although for sure I would have to think twice before trying a megawad based of megamaps, and I mean MEGAmaps, not Eternal Doom or Urania, maps like Deus Vult, I cannot imagine myself spending 6 hours (without counting reloads) for every map, they will have to convince me, or they'll have to be compatible with PS so at least I can be far from the screen.

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While I love megawads, there is something truly satisfying beating a megamap in one shot.   All of your skills are tested in these maps and the thrill of defeating it is only surpassed by the sense of exploring a really vast and hostile place.   

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I'm definitely someone who prefers a collection of short, punchy maps that provide natural stopping points between them and allow each map the opportunity to really do something interesting. It's the Mario style of level design that really appeals to me, where early levels have a few strong, central gameplay mechanics that they focus on and evolve throughout the run time, which are then usually dropped for quite a while until the endgame draws closer and closer and gameplay mechanics return in new combinations or with entirely different ways of evolving. It's kinda by-the-books in the way, but in a way that helps draw the most out of your creativity, rather than stifle it.

 

Aside from that, though, long maps can just get tiring and you really have to make sure you manually save regularly to make sure you don't have to do a massive trudge all over again. Huge scale maps for ZDoom and any other port that allows the map author to put autosave points should really make use of those, because it really does relieve the player of the immersion-breaking "man I really gotta remember to save" loop ... at least if they aren't stingy about them.

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While I do enjoy a good megamap -- and a good megawad doubly so -- I would definitely hesitate in making a full 32-map set of megamaps. If every map is huge in a mapset, the sheer size of it becomes less unique and engaging, and it can be a chore to play through if the pacing isn't meticulously thought out. I believe a mix of short, punchy maps that progress naturally into longer, more involved megamaps would provide a better variety in a mapset as well as a better sense of journey/progression.

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Too bad that many modern megawads are apparently made out of megamaps... (at least it feels like it with many maps in megawads requiring 20 minutes or more to complete.)

The art of making something with shorter maps seems to have gotten lost. Personally I prefer neither. The sweet spot would be shorter mods (around 10 maps of medium size.)

 

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I like it when there are only a couple of epic maps in a megawad towards the end. And the rest are a progression from easy maps to set the mood towards medium sized maps.

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megawad of short to medium size maps with a lot of variety and different themes/design styles explored in them is my preference.

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Megawads. I don't like megamaps, looking at the map every 3 minutes, backtracking, looking for keys in gigantic maps, wondering if I missed a button or is it a bug

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A good 40+ minute map is a much better and shorter experience than a megawad, as far as I'm concerned. A megawad full of short maps is very compelling but still needs multiple sittings, whilst one full of large maps (like that "The Awakening" one I reviewed years ago) is a proper slog, even if the maps are all good 

 

I also believe that a good megawad tends to have a large climactic map in it anyway (usually 29), so that megamap within the megawad will still be the highlight. It's why CC3 is difficult to play through despite it's quality. Most maps are events in and of themselves. There's no appetisers or filler to just go through and gain a sensation of progress.

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I find that for a megamap to be enjoyable it has to be large and not merely long, to feel like a single playground of interconnected spaces rather than a succession of smaller maps or areas stitched together end-to-end.  I'd point to NOVA II MAP15, @an_mutt's Crumbling Necropolis, as a good example of a megamap that's much more than just a collection or succession of separate encounters bolted together.

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I like them both at different times.  Sometimes I just want a few short maps to play on a break.  Sometimes I want to carve out 6 hours of a day to play through one map.  Depends on my mood.

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I much prefer megawad, just a bunch of custom levels to run through. For some reason I really hate playing single-map wads. Though there are some cases where I like to play a HUGE megamap.

 

i.e.; Foursite, that one that's a bunch of areas all connected through a hallway, and takes basically hours to beat that one single level. Sometimes a megamap can be pretty great once in a while.

 

inb4 nuts.wad

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Doesn't matter as long as I enjoy playing it. After I stop enjoying playing it, I could blame it on the maps either being too long or being too short.

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Scythe is amongst my all-time favourites. The more you know.

I sure do enjoy a few megamaps, too, as long as they're not concluding into excessive switch hunts or anything else overwhelmingly tedious - but that, by the fact, needs a lot of planning, about thrice the time the layout itself is set down, to be alright at least. Even amongst more talented mappers, impatience would occur halfway through and they'd just rush it over committing one or several blatant faults and rendering the entire shite unenjoyable - the sole reason why only a very few actually fun megamaps exist.
 

Spoiler

Trust me, I know it rite - I've made-and-broke quite a few aswell.

 

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On 7/9/2017 at 5:14 PM, bzzrak said:

Megawads of megamaps of course

 

not, everybody hates those

Speak for yourself. :I

 

I'd play the fuck out of out a megawad made up of 32+ megamaps.

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11 hours ago, Nems said:

Speak for yourself. :I

 

I'd play the fuck out of out a megawad made up of 32+ megamaps.

That honestly be somewhat tiring for me since when you get older, and well even if you are young, playing even 2 maps that are long can be tiresome, more so if they consistently go through the notion of being long key card hunting with a large amount of enemies.

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