A few terrible, modern Wolfenstein 3D clones

[YukiHerz]

Oh boy i sure can't wait for a beautiful pixel art retro nes doom e.t.-inspired fps that looks like ega catacombs 3d and features roguelite elements and randomly procedurally generated procedural generation scripts and survival mechanics.

 

And another one.

 

And another one.

 

And another one.

 

 

And another one.

[Impie]

Pretty sure both are based on Raycasting Game Maker, a shit and very limited "engine" where every game you make with it is the same basic Wolf3D clone. I remember seeing Merger previews in that community.

[david_a]

5 hours ago, wheresthebeef said:

I've looked into creating my own game engine similar to Doom, and even something as simple as that is a huge undertaking; to do that as an indie dev for a single project is not the best thing to seek.

 

I'm currently working on a little shooter inspired by Doom, Blood, and Bioshock, and I'm taking it very seriously, taking influences while also trying to do something unique. I showed a little test scene in the Post your Doom picture thread (found here) which is something I put together with assets already completed into Doombuilder for a quick mockup, and son of a bitch is it a lot of work.

 

It's one thing to create a custom level or enemy for something like Doom, it's another thing entirely to make a new bestiary, weapon list, basic and advanced mechanics, etc etc.

 

I feel for these small devs; while yes there is minimal effort in these clones, you can also create something far quicker and easier this way, and most importantly you can do it completely by yourself. A single or even two person indie dev team will have a much more hard time producing something on the level of Doom or Duke3D, and if they can't do it themselves and they have to contract some of the work out, well not all indie devs have that sort of income to use.

I really like the aesthetic of that screenshot! :)

 

Games like Doom and Duke3D had teams of people working for months. I don't think a 2.5D game would recoup that kind of investment in 2017, unless you're already a big name. There's that Ion Maiden game being built on Build that was originally supposed to be a freebie tied to Bombshell (before that, uh, bombed). Without 3D Realms name attached to it I don't think it would make any money. 

 

The massive amount of games with procedurally generated levels also makes perfect rational sense, even if the results aren't very good. It's a lot easier (and fun) for a programmer to create a generator to crank out infinite levels than it is to create and/or learn a level editor and carefully construct a bunch of maps.  I'm theoretically working on a level generator for ECWolf before I got sidetracked trying to make a UDMF GUI editor which bogged down my progress to near zero. I just think of all the features I would want as a user of a level editor and for reason get a bit discouraged at the thought of spending six months programming a Wolfenstein level editor that like a dozen people at most would ever use.

[[McD] James]

That Ion Maiden game looks cold.

[[McD] James]

Another one just popped up. 40% off if you're so inclined.  

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/659100/Skyfall/

 

2217. Distant future. We act as an engineer nicknamed Fox. It's a girl. At the beginning of the game it comes the order to disable the protection system in the complex where she works. That they want to make a diagnosis.

[wheresthebeef]

6 minutes ago, Ajora said:

Another one just popped up. 40% off if you're so inclined.  

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/659100/Skyfall/

 

2217. Distant future. We act as an engineer nicknamed Fox. It's a girl. At the beginning of the game it comes the order to disable the protection system in the complex where she works. That they want to make a diagnosis.

This seems like it actually have some form of plot; the first level has no action and is just you making your way through the level with people still alive (copy and pasted a million times) and the second level leads into a zombie scenario with first showing dead bodies while you find a pistol. Interesting

[[McD] James]

 

12 minutes ago, wheresthebeef said:

This seems like it actually have some form of plot; the first level has no action and is just you making your way through the level with people still alive (copy and pasted a million times) and the second level leads into a zombie scenario with first showing dead bodies while you find a pistol. Interesting

 

I guess I won't need to play Half-Life ever again. Or any game at all, really. 

[Noiser]

I'm not sure but... I don't know what's the problem here. I like Wolf-3D clones, I think they are cute and the cartoony aesthetic fits well with this type of level design. Merger 3D particulary looks great.

 

On 11/07/2017 at 4:44 PM, KVELLER said:

It's also infurating how the sprites they use are just simplistic shit and they call it retro. I mean, just look at Wolfenstein 3D. id Software tried to make the sprites as realistic as possible with the technology available at the time.

Citation needed.

Oh sure, all those cyan doors and dark-blue walls... they were aiming for realism... "As realistic as possible" with VGA settings. Uhm.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Noiser

[KVELLER]

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

Citation needed.

Oh sure, all those cyan doors and dark-blue walls... they were aiming for realism... "As realistic as possible" with VGA settings. Uhm.

Maybe "realistic" was the wrong term, but comparing the Wolf3D sprites to the ones in Intrude for example, you can see the ones in the former have much more effort put into them.

[wheresthebeef]

7 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Maybe "realistic" was the wrong term, but comparing the Wolf3D sprites to the ones in Intrude for example, you can see the ones in the former have much more effort put into them.

Basically, id was was constrained by the limitations of the time. Just look at how much each of their games jumped when the technology caught up.

With these other games, the only thing constraining them is money, skill, or both.

[Jayextee]

2 hours ago, Noiser said:

I'm not sure but... I don't know what's the problem here. I like Wolf-3D clones, I think they are cute and the cartoony aesthetic fits well with this type of design.

 

Ditto. Some of these look to be pretty well-made considering their constraints; and engine. I don't know much about ECWolf, but wouldn't that have been a better fit?

Either way, this thread seems a little mean-spirited to me; especially considering there's a Jim fucking Sterling video linked above, a man who seems to take great delight/advertising revenue in shaming developers who maybe need some good honest feedback instead of being ridiculed like a village idiot.

[[McD] James]

7 hours ago, Jayextee said:

 

Ditto. Some of these look to be pretty well-made considering their constraints; and engine. I don't know much about ECWolf, but wouldn't that have been a better fit?

Either way, this thread seems a little mean-spirited to me; especially considering there's a Jim fucking Sterling video linked above, a man who seems to take great delight/advertising revenue in shaming developers who maybe need some good honest feedback instead of being ridiculed like a village idiot.

 

You should check out some of the ECWolf mods made by Doomworld's very own Woolie Wool. They're light years beyond any of the games we're talking about. Not to mention free.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Ajora

[Noiser]

1 hour ago, wheresthebeef said:

Basically, id was was constrained by the limitations of the time. Just look at how much each of their games jumped when the technology caught up.

If you are talking about sprites, this is not true at all. Sprite-wise there are no limitations between Wolf3D and Doom for example. It's the same graphic card, the same artist. Looks more like an art choice than a restriction per se.

Sure, there's A LOT of engine limitations (map layout, lighting, etc). But I think the self-imposed restrictions are great to create a cool and unified style. Just see how charming a 8-bit game can be (well, at least for some people). Yes, probably it's easier to create these games... so what? If someone is having fun, I don't see the problem.

Btw, check this one. Definitely a clone (but not on w3d engine): http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/667196

It's neat! 
 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Noiser

[wheresthebeef]

16 hours ago, Jayextee said:

Either way, this thread seems a little mean-spirited to me; especially considering there's a Jim fucking Sterling video linked above, a man who seems to take great delight/advertising revenue in shaming developers who maybe need some good honest feedback instead of being ridiculed like a village idiot.

Have you watched his videos? Unless a game is an outright scam, he typically gives indie games a fair shot. He's brought awareness to games that pass under the radar and will give constructive criticism when due; if a game looks like it was a quick rush to make a buck, he'll also call it out. (He also doesn't do advertisements)

 

15 hours ago, Noiser said:

Sure, there's A LOT of engine limitations (map layout, lighting, etc). But I think the self-imposed restrictions are great to create a cool and unified style. Just see how charming a 8-bit game can be (well, at least for some people). Yes, probably it's easier to create these games... so what? If someone is having fun, I don't see the problem.

If you are making something for fun, it isn't inherently bad, but when your characters have no sprite rotations, the wall textures are higher res than the characters/sprites, the gameplay is more primitive than Wolfenstein 3D, there are a number of glitches and missing polish, there's been an influx in Wolf3D-like clones on Steam lately causing fatigue, AND you are asking money for it, you will be criticised if you aren't doing something super unique and interesting.

Making one of these games for fun is one thing, asking money for it is another.

And I don't think all of these look bad, some look like they could be interesting. They just need something more.

[geo]

I did indeed have mean spirits when I started this thread. However, it has turned into something quite neutrally informative.

[Noiser]

 

On 7/31/2017 at 10:53 AM, wheresthebeef said:

If you are making something for fun, it isn't inherently bad, but when your characters have no sprite rotations, the wall textures are higher res than the characters/sprites(...)

I don't have any gripe with these things... so, yeah... I'm just saying that it's more a matter of taste, not something that is inherently bad.

Quote

Making one of these games for fun is one thing, asking money for it is another.

I was referring the player. If someone have fun playing it, I can't see any problem. Btw, you are saying like someone is being FORCED to buy it... I mean, c'mon. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Noiser

[VGA]

Noone is forced to buy them. They are either fooled by false advertising comparing the shitty low effort games with classics like Wolf3D or Doom ... or they get bought at a ridiculously low price by people that use programs to farm cards and abuse that system.

[Noiser]

False advertising? Seems pretty clear to me how the game looks like. But alright.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Noiser

[geo]

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

False advertising? Seems pretty clear to me how the game looks like. But alright.

 

They are clear what they look like. Its playing them that is the issue. With Castle Werewolf its dark with limited vision. With Merger 3D enemies can snipe you through walls from a laughably far distance away. Merger 3D looks desirable, but a big issue is no auto save with either.

[wheresthebeef]

7 hours ago, Noiser said:

 

I don't have any gripe with these things... so, yeah... I'm just saying that sometimes is more a matter of taste, not something that is inherently bad. Also, I'm not talking about glitches. My point is about wolf3d clones as a genre.

 

I was talking about the player. If someone have fun playing it, it's alright. Btw, you are saying like someone is being FORCED to buy it... I mean, c'mon. 

I think you might be misunderstanding me. These games are being publically criticised because they are commercial projects, meaning the creators think very highly of these enough to ask money to play them, and because of this they are put at a higher standard than if these were all free projects/mods of Wolf3D. You might have no issue with any of this, but that doesn't mean others won't.

And when the market gets oversaturated with low effort clones, the games with actual blood sweat and tears put into them might be ignored from all the fatigue.

*edit* I'm also not trying to come off as harsh. Some of these games do genuinely look cool, and some of these just come off as trying to cash in on nostalgia instead of substance.

Edited July 31, 2017 by wheresthebeef

[geo]

Western FPS

If you needed a generic name for your game go for this. The game has free art assets, so that's what you're getting into. On the plus side it still looks different than the other Wolfenstien 3D clones.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/603370/Western_FPS/

[Jayextee]

Just now, geo said:

Western FPS

 

 

I swear this was free on itch.io when I last checked.

 

And actually, this game was one of the deciding factors in me making GULFENSTEIN 3D -- a game I am admittedly putting a lot more effort into than this.

[geo]

1 hour ago, Jayextee said:

 

I swear this was free on itch.io when I last checked.

 

And actually, this game was one of the deciding factors in me making GULFENSTEIN 3D -- a game I am admittedly putting a lot more effort into than this.

A lot of games start free... before Steam. Looks like its still free on itch.io.

 

The Western FPS level design looks too simple and dull like its nothing without its art. As for your Gulfenstien. You push forward and put effort into it. We will all buy it and chip in. You're one of us Jayextee so we can see the effort you put in.

 

So now that I've played the Western FPS even though it says its Raycaster, the Raycaster engine itself must be GameMaker, because it has a GameMaker 8 loading screen. I played 20 minutes of it got completely lost in the third level, but its the best Raycaster game I've played and its still bad leaning to fair, its just not difficult bad.

[Red]

God damn fuck I sure love technology is advanced enough to inaccurately emulate ugly slow boring shit from fifty years ago.

[SavageCorona]

There's a reason Doom completely stomped Wolfenstein engine games even back then, so what the heck are they gonna expect nowadays

[geo]

What's that? No more terrible Raycaster Wolfenstien 3D clones? Here's another one!

 

GERMAN FORTRESS 3D

http://store.steampowered.com/app/664350/German_Fortress_3D/

Its probably the worst one I've seen and I am not getting it to play it. I feel like I've seen the sprites as well. In fact I think I've seen it in other games on Steam.

[Jonathan]

Obviously these games are mostly terrible, but isn't the less cynical explanation behind them that they represent the first efforts of some young, wannbe game developer, not some nefarious attempt to cash-in on the retro gaming fad? I know I programmed my share of poor "retro" arcade game clones in QBasic when I was a teenager. I didn't try to sell them, but if Steam had been around I might have.

 

More broadly, all growing artists go through a phase of imitating their influences, sometimes slavishly. In the past, these efforts would have remained private. Now, for better or worse, the internet lets them be distributed and sold through marketplaces like Steam, Etsy, Bandcamp, etc. You can argue the creators shouldn't be trying to sell inferior goods, but it's not like anybody's getting rich off this. It seems like a fairly harmless phenomenon.

[dybbuk81]

this one may be a breath of fresh air I hope:

 

http://www.facebook.com/projectwarlock

[Koko Ricky]

I absolutely cannot fathom wanting to make a Wolf-style game at this point. It's just too limiting and all of your maps are going to look identical. Just more proof of how polished and relevant Doom is when it comes to psuedo-3D shooters!

[scifista42]

^ I remember @Woolie Wool made some great posts about the good points of Wolf mapping, I couldn't find them at the moment, though.