Yet another 90s inspired shooter

[KillPixel]

Small update:  for a number of reasons I'm opting for models instead of sprites.  It makes me sad, but it's the right decision.  Maybe the final game will have an option to use sprites or models (would be a lot of work, but would be awesome).  Anyway, here are some tests and stuff:

 

In-game oppressor model test

 

oppressor retopo

 

oppressor test sprite (just for shiggles)

 

in-game heretic model test

 

original heretic sketch

 

final heretic sculpt

 

heretic retopo

[wheresthebeef]

That is actually better looking; this looks like Devil Daggers now which also has a cool aesthetic.

[KVELLER]

The heretic looks creepy as all hell, I love it.

[Teivman]

Looking good! Hey i was thinking about the weapons and i think they should be a mix of Magic *enchanted crossbow, magic staffs, swords ect.* And industrial *weapons like pistols, shotguns ,chainguns ect.*

[NinjaLiquidator]

Good monsters, I wonder how you texture them. Texture paint feature in Blender?

[MFG38]

You know, I somehow like the game's look in the Heretic model test video, with the weapon being a sprite and the enemies being 3D models. Could that sort of "odd" combination possibly be a thing? c;

[kristus]

Good shit. I like it. :)

[Teivman]

Sorry for the bump but when can we expect to get a playable demo or pre-alpha?

[KillPixel]

Hey, apologies for the late responses.  I evacuated my home ahead of hurricane Irma and ended up being gone longer than intended (a month, without internet).  I'm back now and working on the game, so all is well.

 

@wheresthebeef - Thanks, I'm happy with the new look.  And I agree, I think Devil Daggers has an awesome aesthetic.

 

@KVELLER - Me too!

 

@MrD!zone - I'm thinking along similar lines in terms of weapons.  To answer your question, there will be a playable demo Q1 2018.

 

@MFG38 - Strange combo, but it does look neat :D

 

@kristus - Thanks!

[KillPixel]

@NinjaLiquidator - Oops, missed your question last time I was here.  Yes, they're painted in blender and tweaked/palettized in photoshop.

 

some stuff:

 

 

 

 

 

[NinjaLiquidator]

How you done such big resolution of lightmap? I have 4096x4096 lightmap and its little for me. I guess I am missing something important...

[KillPixel]

@NinjaLiquidator - I'm not sure what you mean?  Are you refering to how pixelated they look?  Here are my light settings, if they might be useful.

 

compiler (q3map2):

-light -v -cpma -trisoup -bounce 100 -bouncegrid -bouncescale 1.8 -dark -dirty -dirtmode 1 -dirtscale 1.8 -gamma 1.5 -filter -lightmapsize 1024

worldspawn:

_lightmapscale .125

I also disable any lightmap filtering engine-side.  As for scale reference, the player is 128 units tall.

 

Hope this helps :D

[NinjaLiquidator]

@KillPixel wait, you are doing this in Quake3 engine?

[KillPixel]

@NinjaLiquidator - Engine is darkplaces, logic is quakeC and maps are q3map2.  So it's a bit of a Frankenstein.

[NinjaLiquidator]

@KillPixel But I like your 3d-model skills. I would pay you for some monsters.

[KillPixel]

@NinjaLiquidator - That's flattering, thanks :D  But if you're asking me to produce some models for you I won't have time to, yet, anyway.  I'm on quite the time-crunch at the moment.

 

Modeling is a new endeavor for me and I believe that if I can do it anyone can do it.  Do you model or are you thinking about learning?  I can tell you what worked for me: youtube search for modeling tuts.  I went with blender since it's free and has a large user base.

[VGA]

Can you make the models not slide as they walk?

[KillPixel]

@VGA - Indeed.  The models in the videos aren't attached to an enemy entity; they're just set on a moving path for a quick lighting test.  I assure you there will be no foot-slide to be seen:)

[Zajkonur]

Dude, this is absolutely my type of game! I'm so fucking excited for this one!

 

We just recently released a steampunk dungeon crawler Vaporum, and we're now pondering what's the next step for us, what genre, what game. And I'm doing a research on shooters in the vein of classical Dooms / Quakes, what makes those games so damn fun to play and why almost every modern shooter that tries to revive the vibe fails. And I stumbled upon your gem right here. I wholeheartedly hope you will finish this. I'm a huge fan of Doom, Blood, and Duke, and made plenty of levels for each. And here, every piece of picture and vid I've seen so far makes me want to play this.

 

I see that you decided to go for 3D enemies instead of sprites. If you maintain the mood, the splashiness, and the feel of sprite enemies, I think it's a good move, obviously. There's just something about the sprites that makes them so appealing to slay.

 

Thank you for doing this!

 

Btw, what level editor are you using? I find Trenchbroom the most intuitive and satisfying to use.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Zajkonur

[Mayomancer]

This looks amazing! The weapon looks right (a big problem i have with games such as hacx is that the weapons sprites are a bit strange). I hope it makes it's way to the final product, i'd love to give it a try.

 

The textures are a 10/10, the movement looks smooth (though it could do well with a bit of inertia to it), the gun fire and sound are cool as hell too. In my opinion the monsters so far look a bit weird, but the death animation still looks cool.

[KillPixel]

@Zajkonur - Hey, thanks man :D  And don't worry, I'll certainly finish it.  Without going into details, I've put a lot of time, energy and resources into this and I'm just now *finally* able to bring it to fruition.

 

In regards to what makes old shooters tick and why so many modern attempts miss the mark, here is a copy/pasta of post I made recently in another forum with a thread of that very topic:

 

Quote

Here's a brief list of what I perceptive as mistakes and shortcomings found in modern "retro" FPS games (and their remedies):

• absence of proper level design - level design is the very core of a good FPS. you can have a phenomenal aesthetic and clever ai, but that is absolutely no substitute for real, good level design. inversely, a game can have a lackluster aesthetic and dumb ai but still be a very good game by virtue of it's level design. IMO, if one had to choose a single most important aspect of a game it would be this. sadly, level design seems to me the most overlooked in the modern retro FPS scene.

• inappropriate/inconsistent art style - this one is pretty self-explanatory. execution goes a long way, even uninteresting or derivative designs can hold their own if executed properly. IMO, I think that materials (bumps, norms, specs, etc) are not only often inappropriate, but poorly executed as well. even materials subtly and tastefully used are still ultimately out of place. spend time making one good diffuse map rather than throwing in all the bells and whistles because you can. also, I don't remember any FPS from the days of old that used 8-bit music.

• unrestrained and haphazard design - classic FPSes were defined by outside limitations (hardware, tools, etc). this created not only a certain look, but a feel. these games oozed creativity that is often a product of the devs working within and around these limitations. modern retro FPS devs need to think deeply about appropriate limits, impose them, adhere to them and work creatively within them.

• respect the player - there is a strong temptation to "dumb-down" and "hand-hold". I sympathize, but stop it. understand your audience, they're much more experienced and astute than you give them credit for. also, don't swing too far in the other direction. making something stupidly difficult or obtuse is not good design and it's not retro. these games need to be pleasurably challenging and rewarding.

• one-dimensionality - this is more general but is a common trait among these games. The "retro" aspect is approached more as a gimmick than an ethos. devs seem to pick a single and often easily identifiable attribute of oldsclochool FPSes (pixelation, lowpoly, speed, gore) and run with it, seemingly in a vacuum. this results in a caricature, exaggerated and shallow, rather than an authentic classic fps experience. oldschool FPSes are often more nuanced than people think and are a careful balance of many things.

It's not enough to execute one of these correctly. You have to hit all of them. I'm sure there's more to add to this list (there is) but I have stuff to do :D 

 

It may not offer you any new insights, but it's some food for thought.

 

And I agree, there is some magic to sprites (especially the killing them part) that's hard to replicate in 3D, though I'll do my best (I'm still sad that sprites aren't an option currently).  Also, I'm using NetRadiant.  I've tried Trenchbroom and it's good (lots of people use it), but there's a level of control that NetRadiant offers that I really like.

 

Vaporum looks very good, I like the aesthetic - it's nice to see steampunk that isn't of the DeviantArt variety.  Those Animations are really nice, too :D  I hope your game has been a success and if you decide to go the FPS route I hope it rocks!!

 

@GhoulDesecrator - Thank you :)  The video is just a technical demonstration and not really indicative of the game art-wise (no longer using sprites).  Here's the new coachgun (with inertia, too :D) Hope ya dig it!

 

Since I'm here I'll show you all this lovely lady.

[Teivman]

This looks really good! Is it still on the quake engine?

[KillPixel]

@MrD!zone - Yessir!

[MrFlibble]

KillPixel, thanks for sharing your thoughts on design philosophy, I agree completely, and it's also nice that you put level design first on the list.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

On 7/23/2017 at 0:35 AM, scifista42 said:

I've once been thinking about this too, and concluded that if I was ever making my own game, I'd do it like this:

<snip>

Severance: Blade of Darkness had a little bit of that approach, you could save as much as you wanted but there was a rank attached that would eventually call you a weenie if you made a lot of saves.  It was balanced such that you could save about twice per level and still have best rank.

[VGA]

You could make the saving of the game a bit of a process. Like maybe have a special "weapon"/tool that you use to spawn a mist-covered iron maiden and you get into that to save. And the tool needs a few kills to restore itself. So the player can't easily savescum or save while in combat.

[Zajkonur]

@KillPixel Thank you for the rundown! You basically speak my heart. Unfortunately, we will most likely not go for an FPS, but it's still interesting for me to know there are likeminded people who crave the oldschool gameplay in modern times. I see that your Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube channels are all empty. Where can I follow your progress? Only here in this post?

 

Thanks!

[KillPixel]

@MrFlibble - Awesome, good to see other people think similarly :D

 

@ETTiNGRiNDER - That is interesting.

 

@VGA - Hmm, kill-based save system is also interesting.

 

@Zajkonur - Well, if you don't end up making an FPS hopefully wrath be will the game you wanted to make :D  This thread is "unofficial" - just wanted to put a bug in the ears of those who would like this type of game.  The social media pages will become active once the game is officially announced/revealed/playable in Q1 2018.

[VGA]

But first it has to be tested, so you should send your favorite tester (me) a playable build. Q1 2018 sounds optimistic, though, how fast are you working? Didn't you recently switch from sprites to models, a few months ago?

[KillPixel]

@VGA -

Quote

But first it has to be tested, so you should send your favorite tester (me) a playable build.

 

Oh, there will be testing (Q1 sometime).

 

Quote

Q1 2018 sounds optimistic, though, how fast are you working?

 

A demo release in Q1 is optimistic, but still possible.  There will be an official announcement by Q1 and the launch of the marketing campaign, though.  Getting the demo in the hands of players will likely be Q2 sometime.  I'm working full-time on this :D

 

Quote

Didn't you recently switch from sprites to models, a few months ago?

Yep.  In that time I was able to learn (actual) 3D modeling, make 5 enemy models (all rigged and ready to go and most partially animated).  I'm currently on track to have the viewmodels completed by the end of the year.  I don't have any frame of reference, so I'm not sure if this is swift progress or not.  Either way, we're pretty much on schedule :D

Edited December 2, 2017 by KillPixel