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I found this thingy on the coffee table that my dad printed out from his e-mail talking about how it is our fault that God doesn't protect us from terror attacks and such because we've been telling him to leave us along for so long by getting prayer and bibles banned from schools. It's probably just more Christian propaganda but it does make for a strong case. I can agree with it but only on the grounds that God is the loving and complete part of our consciousness that we seem to have lost or repressed. God is dead, and we have killed him. I don't think there should be prayer in schools, because that would be too dogmatic. I believe there should be meditation or simple moments of silence to contemplate or pray to whomever one happens to believe in, be it God, Allah, or one's Self. Unfortunately, this could probably never work without a lot of Christians making it into a big dogmatic thing, constantly using the words "God" and "prayer" and making it seem like God is actually an external, anthropomorphic deity. If only they would realize that God is us! We are God! Our consciousness is God. For centuries we've been worshipping parts of our own brain without realizing it. Religion is all metaphor.

So what do you guys think?

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I say religion is for the weak-minded who need metaphors to escape the Raw and Boring Truth of Reality.

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Pfhh. Your dad is nuts. If god wanted people to be Christian then god would have made humans incapable of being non-Christian. It's god's own fault for not forseeing that humans would choose not to believe in something when they have been given absolutely no reason to believe in it. I doubt god, if there is one, would be so immature and shallow.

Come on people, wake up, get up, stand up for your right. Don't let them fool you or even try to school you. Don't play their ism & skism game.

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Fredrik said:

I say religion is for the weak-minded who need metaphors to escape the Raw and Boring Truth of Reality.

Fundamentally, I can't really disagree with this. On the other hand, I know some brilliantly creative and intelligent people who are religious, and religious faith has clearly been the driving force behind some fantastic achievements.

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You hate Christianity, just because they believe in God? You hate it, even if you're not forced to believe in God? Man, I don't get it.

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niguel said:

You hate Christianity, just because they believe in God? You hate it, even if you're not forced to believe in God? Man, I don't get it.

Personal belief and faith is fine. But if you're going to believe some outlandishly far-fetched things, at least have the common decency to lay low like the snake you are and keep it reasonably private. Again, having a little faith is one thing. But people who insist that logic is the tool of the devil and blind faith is the true path to enlightenment, should quietly be hit by a falling chimney for the sake of us all.

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AndrewB said:

Personal belief and faith is fine. But if you're going to believe some outlandishly far-fetched things, at least have the common decency to lay low like the snake you are and keep it reasonably private. Again, having a little faith is one thing. But people who insist that logic is the tool of the devil and blind faith is the true path to enlightenment, should quietly be hit by a falling chimney for the sake of us all.


Preach it, brotha.

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niguel said:

You hate Christianity, just because they believe in God? You hate it, even if you're not forced to believe in God? Man, I don't get it.

Christianity teaches people to accept their teachings unconditionally and if they do not they are damned to an eternity of suffering. I think Jesus was probably a very wise man but his message has unfortunately been distorted by a cult that uses his name.

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The Kurgan said:

You expect me to read all that?
I don't believe in God or Satan. I believe that when I'm dead, I'm just dead. I do hope I could turn into some kind of Demon from Doom to take over a base on Mars in the year two thousand something :)
I'd like to know what it's like to be on the other side of the BFG.....

No wait, I don't..

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I believe that there is some sort of governing force in the universe, but definetely not the one portrayed in the christian bible,

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GS-1719 said:

A very convoluted argument that makes incorrect assumptions, and as a result draws false conclusions.


Incorrect?

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I am Christian but it's a personal thing and I wouldn't force it on anyone. Yeah I think meditation time where you can do your own thing is a good idea. Some friends of mine set up a meditation society when we were at school that proved so popular they had to find bigger premises for the after-school meetings. Go ask your head teacher or whatever.

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pritch said:

I am Christian but it's a personal thing and I wouldn't force it on anyone. Yeah I think meditation time where you can do your own thing is a good idea. Some friends of mine set up a meditation society when we were at school that proved so popular they had to find bigger premises for the after-school meetings. Go ask your head teacher or whatever.

Any excuse to sit around and do absolutely nothing. Just kidding.

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Man, every time I think we've sorted this kind of thing out, somebody new comes along and starts it up again. But whatever. It's not like anyone reads any posts of mine longer than three lines anyway.

The problem does not lie in Christianity itself; the problem lies in the fact that a lot of things that are not Christianity are constantly called Christianity. Catholics are not Christians. Presbyterians are not Christians. Methodists are not Christians. And so on and so forth.

The whole thing about Christians blinding believing anything written in the Bible is one of the biggest loads of ponyloaf that no one seems to ever let go of. As a Christian, I'm to study and reaffirm my faith. Now, if you study something, you're not blindly believing, you're reading, interpreting, and thinking. Faith is not a blind belief, it's an educated one, albeit one based partially on the unseen. I've never been to Tokyo, yet I believe that it exists. It's something like that, if a little larger.

As to the thought that if God existed, He'd have created humans so that they were incapable of not believing in Him, you've missed the entire point of Christianity. It's a choice. God created humans with free will with the foreknowledge that they could, if they so chose, live apart from Him.

But why am I telling all you this? You're just going to attack me for it. I'm willing to bet most of you aren't even reading by this point.

If all the Christians in America left tomorrow, I think you'd see a definite and profound impact within a short amount of time, and I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be the greatest thing you'd ever seen. But that's just me, a narrow-minded Christian with some kind of moral sense if you can imagine such a social gaffe.

DC

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I do believe in God, but I also think that catholicism and most other christian religions have been horribly corrupted by the selfish nature of man. Over the centuries, supposedly religious figures at the top of the catholic church hierarchy have twisted the true teachings of God and Jesus to their own ends. Don't get me wrong, the vast majority of the most senior priests were undoubtedly good people who truly believed in god, but there are bound to have been some who weren't interested in serving god, but were instead only interesting in acquiring money and power, either for themselves or for the church.

For example, the fact that catholic priests are not allowed to have sex isn't anything to do with religion, it's because the church didn't want to have to financially support their familes. I'm sure the whole thing about non-believers going to hell came into existence purely because someone powerful in the church once reasoned that if people were allowed to think what they want, fewer people would go to church, the church would therefore recieve fewer donations, and consequently the church wouldn't have as much money anymore.

If you want to follow the teachings of god, you can't even really trust the bible, as that has always been linked to the church. The church even tries to tell us how to interpret the bible, and not let us interpret in out own way. It's already been more-or-less proven that at least part of the bible was actually written a few centuries after Jesus was supposed to have lived, which suggests that, while there may have once been a true bible, the current version is simply an ellaborate way for various church officials of the past, and maybe the even present, to try to control and exploit the public.

In my opinion, if you want to believe in God, do so, but believe what you want, and not what the church tells you to. Above all, if you're a good person, always let your own moral code guide your actions and not the code put forward by the church as being 'right'.

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AndrewB said:

Christmas and Easter make for some darn good holidays at least. I'll give it that much.


And those don't really have anything to do with christianity. Christmas is an old heathen tradition when the light returned. Easter, is afaik, also an old heathen tradition which the religious fanatics (every religious man is a fanatic in my book) took in and changed.

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Doom-Child said:

The whole thing about Christians blinding believing anything written in the Bible is one of the biggest loads of ponyloaf that no one seems to ever let go of.

No it's not. You seem to greatly underestimate the number of Christians who take such a stance. Just because you aren't one, it doesn't mean we aren't inundated with them.

So what if it's a choice? The fact remains, the idea of a god killing humans (including devout Christians!) because not enough humans believe in him is akin to a child knocking down a castle he built because it's not quite perfect. Oh, but the Christians argue that logic doesn't apply to god because he's perfect and incapable of wrongdoing.

If you want to believe something so frankly stupid then fine. But keep that brainless beef soup out of other people's faces.

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Shaviro said:

And those don't really have anything to do with christianity. Christmas is an old heathen tradition when the light returned. Easter, is afaik, also an old heathen tradition which the religious fanatics (every religious man is a fanatic in my book) took in and changed.

I agree.

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