Job Posted July 15, 2017 NM pacifist or go home. The degree of seriousness in that statement reflects my attitude towards the premise of this thread. 3 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted July 15, 2017 Standing still while imps bounce all over you? :P 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted July 15, 2017 Quote "Ultra-Violence is the real way to play Doom" Nah 1 Share this post Link to post
Reisal Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) That phrase is just as bad as the people saying Brutal Doom is the real way to play Doom. 3 Share this post Link to post
AdirBlaz Posted July 15, 2017 I myself like to make a mix of UV+Nightmare, like a sweet in-between. It's just UV with fast monsters though. Stuff's too slow for me otherwise. But seriously, difficulty is difficulty. People play what they wanna play. Hell, get a mod that replaces everything with cyberdemons if you want--One that replaces even items, and try to play that if you want. 0 Share this post Link to post
Gifty Posted July 15, 2017 UV is simply the easiest way to retain a sense of challenge as a keyboard/mouse user. I think the other difficulty settings made a lot more sense on older setups. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) Nothing like independent strafe\turning keys and no auto run to keep the game difficult. Edit : Rip whatever hand that has the horrible fate of holding the shift key. 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted July 15, 2017 I've read people bash this or that map/wad for its difficulty, when they also claim to play always on UV-max regardless of what the author might have recommended. Ironic, don't u think? 0 Share this post Link to post
Blastfrog Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) When it comes to just the base IWADs, UV is the way to get the most out of the experience. The way id implemented skill levels, it seems they made the hardest version of the map first and then diluted it for the lower skill levels. And what was considered "hard" for people in 1993 in a newly emerging genre is actually rather average by today's standards. Bobby Prince even described his first experience with the game saying that he almost felt like he was going to fall backward, that's how awkward FPS games were back then, because the entire general public were still novices. In the years since, people have gotten very used to controlling first person characters to the point where it's second nature. The way I see it, UV is "100% of the game" and lower skill settings are more diluted. In the case of mapsets that are harder than the base IWADs (obviously not counting Plutonia here), lower skill levels are more of a necessity there than in maps with a standard '93/'94 level of difficulty. 1 Share this post Link to post
TDRR Posted July 15, 2017 Doom 1 is that one game i can go through on UV without much problem, but Doom 2 i really can't play well on HMP or higher, only HNTR or ITYTD, and i can't even get past Plutonia. 1 Share this post Link to post
MarsHappyNation Posted July 15, 2017 It really depends on the person. For the base game and wads I'm most familiar with, I normally go UV just to mix things up. When I'm trying out a new mapset or something, HMP is always my first choice. 0 Share this post Link to post
Erick Posted July 16, 2017 For older wads and the likes, UV is my go to difficulty I suppose. However, newer mods and levels have gotten more difficult over the years so I am not shy om playing HMP (Or the normal difficulty on mods) as honestly I rather have a comfortable experience rather than boiling my blood with frustration. 0 Share this post Link to post
Impie Posted July 16, 2017 I've seen people who only play on UV, and do so with my map sets, then are amazed when the maps kick the living shit out of them. Kind of annoying, but they're doing it to themselves. 0 Share this post Link to post
Suitepee Posted July 16, 2017 20 hours ago, rehelekretep said: youre not talking about sweet-p again are you? I have since embraced the mentality of playing on HMP with some wads (thanks Alfonzo!), taking each wad I play through on a case-by-case basis. If UV is deemed an unwise choice or proves to be too difficult, then I bump the difficulty down to HMP. 0 Share this post Link to post
rehelekretep Posted July 16, 2017 no offence intended Suitepee, i was just seeing if people were still 'calling you out' for some of your historic streams on hard wads! 0 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted July 16, 2017 Enter Enter Enter Done. UV's great and all, but since HMP is the default skill, I'll stick with that. Playing in UV definitely makes it more challenging, but most of the time, I'm not in the mood for a challenge. I just want to play. 1 Share this post Link to post
rehelekretep Posted July 16, 2017 not if you change it on prboom+ (¬‿¬) 1 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 16, 2017 Hurt Me Plenty is de facto the way the game is supposed to be played. Exhibit A: As Voros outlined, you mash the enter key enough and the game will take you to the first level on HMP (I know you can set PRBoom+ to default to UV or something else, but I'm talking the original game here). I read somewhere that the original design brief stipulated that players should be able to get into the action "as quick as possible". Exhibit B: E1M1 HMP is designed in such a way that new players will not find anything threatening in front of them until they've shown some familiarity with the controls; at the very least, moving and opening doors. UV dumps shotgunners; an actually-threatening low-tier enemy no matter what skill level; in the room adjacent the start. Not exactly newbie-friendly, although seemingly well-considered for those who want to return post-completion with a higher challenge perhaps. Exhibit C: The original 3-episode DOOM has stuck monsters on UV, making it appear an afterthought (off the top of my head; E1M6 exit room spectre, E2M6 demons in rooms off the main hall that open later). Or at the very least, not well-tested on the setting. It's basically normal difficulty, and should be treated as such. It does appear the developer-intended setting, which would be the closest to any 'real' way to play the game. (even if, fuck it, you do you innit) 6 Share this post Link to post
Voros Posted July 16, 2017 Believe it or not, I did set UV as the default skill in PrBoom+ :D 0 Share this post Link to post
GaussMaster987 Posted July 16, 2017 For Classic Doom, I have to agree with this. Only UV and Nightmare have the maximum number of enemies. Classic Doom's HMP feels incomplete with the reduced number of enemies. Doom 2016's "double damage" UV doesn't bother me either, but the reduced value health and armor pickups are a dealbreaker for me. 0 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Doom 2's UV feels way better designed than the one in Doom 1. Much more thought out monster replacement instead of adding more of the same shit. Edit : Comparing Doom 1 to Doom2, Not UDoom's extra episode. 0 Share this post Link to post
The Nate Posted July 16, 2017 I honestly feel that something's off if the cursor is on HMP. 1 Share this post Link to post
Blastfrog Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Sgt Jack V said: I honestly feel that something's off if the cursor is on HMP. 1 hour ago, GaussMaster987 said: Only UV and Nightmare have the maximum number of enemies. Classic Doom's HMP feels incomplete with the reduced number of enemies. I feel the same. It makes sense to set it up the way they did in 1993, and I realize that we're playing and talking about a 1993 game, but it's not 1993 anymore and the FPS genre is well established, it's not disorienting and complex to people the way it was when 2D games were what people mostly played and had any familiarity with. 2 hours ago, Jayextee said: Hurt Me Plenty is de facto the way the game is supposed to be played. ... It's basically normal difficulty, and should be treated as such. It does appear the developer-intended setting, which would be the closest to any 'real' way to play the game. For back then, at least. These days, it's silly IMO to play on HMP or lower in Doom 1/2 (especially 1). The game is simply far too easy on HMP by today's standards, and it's not nearly as exciting. I'm not arguing that HMP wasn't the intended default for the general playerbase (it most certainly was), but that the lower difficulty in general and the increase in player skill has made UV the de facto standard within today's playerbase. I don't think UV has much in the way of "extra," rather, it's that all the lower skills are cut down versions of the "full experience." 2 hours ago, Jayextee said: E1M1 HMP is designed in such a way that new players will not find anything threatening in front of them until they've shown some familiarity with the controls; at the very least, moving and opening doors Something that is mostly irrelevant today for the vast majority of players, even if they've never played Doom in particular. I'll admit that the extra shotgunners at the start are a bit much for novices, but it's still pretty easy when you already know how to dodge their attacks and take them down. 2 hours ago, Jayextee said: The original 3-episode DOOM has stuck monsters on UV, making it appear an afterthought (off the top of my head; E1M6 exit room spectre, E2M6 demons in rooms off the main hall that open later). Or at the very least, not well-tested on the setting. I'm sure some amount of extras were added, but through analysis of the alpha maps vs. the final game, this doesn't appear to be the case for the most part. The alpha maps already have UV levels of monsters (in the more complete maps, anyhow, not talking about the super-unfinished ones). It appears they put all the monsters and pickups in as a basis, and worked their way down from there when assigning flags (reversing the trend when it comes to pickups). 0 Share this post Link to post
TootsyBowl Posted July 16, 2017 Instead of UV being the full experience and HMP being a dumbed down version, we could alternatively think of HMP as being the full experience, with the lower difficulties being dumbed down and UV being the full experience with extra shit slapped on. 4 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 16, 2017 Tootsy hits the nail on the head IMO. There's nothing wrong with preferring UV, but those stuck monsters especially reinforce the idea that the setting is 'extra'. Also (and I am talking about the original DOOM episodes here) since UV is often not as much tougher as it is just more grind (E2M6 again, more Barons in these halls; and that enemy hasn't been a challenge for anyone since about 1996 right? :P) HMP isn't too much a 'loss' per se as it is just keeping the clutter down. Doom 2 on the other hand, may well have been designed with UV in mind. I don't have anything to suggest so or otherwise; at that point it's clear perceived player ability had risen -- and the new bestiary makes 'more' not necessarily equate to heightened grind. I do nonetheless still play Doom 2 on HMP because it's the 'normal' setting, and I'm not really missing out on much save a Mastermind that's no real threat in The Crusher, a few more Dead Simple Mancubuses, et cetera. 0 Share this post Link to post
Blastfrog Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Seems like the point I made was ignored, so I reiterate; it's extremely likely that id started with a full object set and cut down pickups in higher skills and cut down monsters on lower. They're not "extra," they're simply not missing, is all. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass, see for yourself; compare the 0.5 alpha maps to the final maps. While obviously it's not 1:1 (some extras were indeed added), for the most part they simply cut monsters down. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Blastfrog said: Did you guys miss the part where I said it's pretty clear that id started with a full object set and cut down pickups in higher skills and cut down monsters on lower? They're not "extra," they're simply not missing is all. Nope. But it is also "pretty clear" that UV wasn't thoroughly tested because of those stuck monsters. Ergo even early on I think they were "added for challenge" rather than "part of the design in mind". Then again, Doom 2 has stuck monsters on all settings but I'm of the opinion maybe that game was rushed for the retail release or something. 0 Share this post Link to post
Blastfrog Posted July 16, 2017 Worth noting that my theory only necessarily applies to maps from that era of development. Who knows how Romero or Petersen handled this later on. 0 Share this post Link to post
DeathevokatioN Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Only ultraviolence is real, nothing more, nothing less... and if someone makes a wad that's too hard on ultraviolence then leave a 1/5 review saying the wad is too hard/mindless. 2 Share this post Link to post
Deleted_Account Posted July 16, 2017 Real men play on I'm too young to die. 0 Share this post Link to post