what monsters are going to be left out

[dsm]

Prime said:

Ever heard of a biomechanical demon?

This is the second time I say this: YES I HAVE.
And if you don't mind, I'd like to stop the discussion now. I apologize that I committed the sin of bringing it up.

[Lord FlatHead]

No man, we understand you're very... protective... of your opinion on the lost soul in Doom III :)

[Hicks]

when ID is going to release a picture of the The revenant :(:(

[dsm]

Hicks said:

when ID is going to release a picture of the The revenant :(:(

Hopefully they won't - don't want 'em to spoil the surprise when we first see it in the game.

[MRB_Doom]

The first I'm gonna do when I have purchased Doom 3, is to look at the enemies in the readme manual. I can never help myself when it comes to such things damnit.

[Arioch]

Most game companies, id included, don't put pictures of their enemies in the manuals.

You'll just have to see them as they come. :)

Personally I think the cyberdemon is in there, somewhere ... I think with the new cyberdemon id's trying to go with the same shit-in-your-pants feeling the original cybie gave everyone who encountered it for the first time.

[The_Aeromaster]

The pic of the new arachnotron is the most amazing fucking thing I've seen yet out of any D3 presentation. It doesn't look much different, it just looks so damned real. The pic of the flying skull is cool too.
If they leave the cyberdemon out I'll kill, but in the one video it showed a model for one so I guess they're working on it.

[dsm]

Arioch said:

Most game companies, id included, don't put pictures of their enemies in the manuals.

You'll just have to see them as they come. :)

Uh? They included pics of the monsters in the Quake 1 and Quake 2 manuals - they even included pics of some enemies in the RtCW manual - so what you're saying is just plain wrong.

What I do hope, however, is that they include descriptions of the enemies and take the approach they took in the original Doom manual where they just described roughly what the monster looked like without showing a pic of it - e.g. Former human: (dudes in filthy combat suits) <insert funky description of enemy's abilities>. That way, you know what enemies will be in the game but you will still be surprised when you actually see them.

[The_Aeromaster]

I'd rather not know anything else than what we know already... it'll make the game more submersive, knowing next to nothing about what's going on, cause think what the Doomguy actually knows... nothing. Also if they don't release any more details about the game until it comes out, the anticipation will drive u nuts, and when you actually get to play it, it'll be more thrilling of an experience.

[AirRaid]

He does have a point.

[Arioch]

dsm said:

Uh? They included pics of the monsters in the Quake 1 and Quake 2 manuals - they even included pics of some enemies in the RtCW manual - so what you're saying is just plain wrong.

In memorable examples of anything more recent you might only get descriptions and sometimes not even images of even the most basic enemies.

id didn't exactly tell you about Makron, Shub-Niggurath, or Chthon in those manuals.

The RTCW manual listed the most basic enemy grunts that you met in the first couple of missions, and iirc even skipped the blackguards. They most certainly did not cover the various experimental creatures and definitely not the ubersoldats. I don't remember that much about it, but they probably skipped the flamethrower zombie(s) as well.

Deus Ex is another example. The manual mentions the NSF and a couple of basic guard bots ... in no way preparing you for huge arrays of human, robotic, and engineered creatures you'd have to face at one point or another throughout the game.

I for one would not be surprised if id, for this game, does not enumerate the full range of the bestiary, pictures or otherwise. A full bestiary list gives away too much of any possible plot for it to be fashionably employable in manuals for today's single-player first person shooter games.

[doomedout]

i wish cyberdemon, sm and archville dont come...
I WISH
I WISH
but more realistically both wont come
they are too big for the small halls anyhow

[Tetzlaff]

doomedout said:

i wish cyberdemon, sm and archville dont come...
but more realistically both wont come
they are too big for the small halls anyhow

That´s totally pointless! Just because the last few screenshots / movies showed small hallways and rooms, it´s no reason to assume that the WHOLE game will take place in cramped locations!
Remember one of the first Doom3 demo videos, there you saw the birdman (?) walking through a dark, gigantic hall with bigass columns... plenty of space for 6 Cyberdemons on top of each other :p

Here take a look for yourself:

http://www.doomworld.com/shots/macworld/27.jpg

http://www.doomworld.com/shots/macworld/29.jpg

[dsm]

Arioch said:

id didn't exactly tell you about Makron, Shub-Niggurath, or Chthon in those manuals.

The RTCW manual listed the most basic enemy grunts that you met in the first couple of missions, and iirc even skipped the blackguards. They most certainly did not cover the various experimental creatures and definitely not the ubersoldats. I don't remember that much about it, but they probably skipped the flamethrower zombie(s) as well.

Most game companies, id included, don't put pictures of their enemies in the manuals.

The latter statement is typically understood as "They don't put ANY pictures of ANY enemies in the game in their manuels"" - no offence, but maybe you should have made a bit clearer what you meant.
Yes, they didn't include pics of the Macron and the other bosses for the simple reason that they were bosses and thus supposed to be closely guarded secrets - the Doom 1 manual didn't include neither the cybie nor the SM and the Doom 2 manual didn't include the Icon of Sin. See a pattern?
And yes, I know that RtCW only showed the most basic enemies, but they still listed some - listing only the basic enemies is not the same as not listing any enemies at all which your first statement can easily be interpreted as.

i wish cyberdemon, sm and archville dont come...
I WISH
I WISH
but more realistically both wont come
they are too big for the small halls anyhow

Huh? First you say that you wish they won't be in the game, then you seemingly express regret that they most likely won't be in the game (which is total bullshit - just ONE fucking preview doesn't give a picture of the whole game, we haven't seen Hell yet for instance yet we know it will be in the game because id has said so).
What the Hell do you MEAN?
Believe me, both monsters are likely to show up in Doom 3 in one form or another - they're both too popular Doom enemies to be left out.
Leaving out, say, the Pain Elemental I can understand but not those to, no siree.

[Major Grit]

I say keep them all in and add some new ones. Just leave out commander keen and the Nazi from wolf 3d.

[AIRmichael]

I want commander keen in doom!;)

[Major Grit]

Ok Ok keen can be in doom but that's it.

[AIRmichael]

And his 12 year old brother?

[dsm]

Major Grit said:

Ok Ok keen can be in doom but that's it.

I sure as Hell don't want the hung Cmdr Keen - that enemy sucked. If Commander Keen is to be in Doom 3, they have to make a new enemy out of him. Make a possessed Commander Keen with a toy blaster >:-]

[DOOM Anomaly]

...O o o and His pogo-stick! :D

[dsm]

DOOM Anomaly said:

...O o o and His pogo-stick! :D

*Boing* *zap* *boing* *zap* *boing* :-P
He could be the boss of a secret level...
..if it wasn't because there will likely be no secret level :-(

Hmm, then he could be a minor boss that guards a shitload of goodies in a large secret area which is Commander Keen themed :-P

[Dark-tenshi]

commander keen easter egg?we need new keen episode!!!

[dsm]

Dark-tenshi said:

commander keen easter egg?we need new keen episode!!!

Yeah, we need a Commander Keen 3d - Keen Vs McMire :-P

[doomedout]

Yeah, who hear seriously wants to see cyberdemon redone in doom3 style?
WHO
WHO
seeing the pink demon i have my doubts
thus it should be left out
as should the archville
they looked so badass in doom that i dont want them redone...

[dsm]

doomedout said:
Yeah, who hear seriously wants to see cyberdemon redone in doom3 style?
WHO
WHO
seeing the pink demon i have my doubts
thus it should be left out
as should the archville
they looked so badass in doom that i dont want them redone...

The cybie is a must, same goes for the archie - plain and simple. If it has the hole in its stomach, the large, bending demon horns and the hooves then I'd probably be happy with the way id will have transformed it.
Have you considered the possibility that they could end up looking far more badass in Doom 3?
The pinky, although I'm slightly disappointed about some aspects of it (its new, wimpy looking horns), I think that overall it looks more badass now.

[DOOM Anomaly]

doomedout said:

mmmmmm chocolate

................Where did that come from??

[The_Aeromaster]

Odds are that the cyberdemon, with how real most everything looks in D3, is gonna look pretty fuckin good. Think about what one would look like in life, and that's probly close to what you'll see in D3. I wanna see all the monsters return. The Nazi and Keen don't qualify as monsters. This game should be strictly a scare-fest, no funny shit like a hanging doll. It just don't belong in this one. The archvile definately needs to be in, but not anywhere on Phobos. Probably should wait until Hell for its intro, but maybe towards the end of Deimos it wouldn't be too bad.

[DOOM Anomaly]

doomedout said:

just means that a feel like having chocolate...... NOOOB

Who U calling a NOOOB?

[dsm]

The_Aeromaster said:

The archvile definately needs to be in, but not anywhere on Phobos. Probably should wait until Hell for its intro, but maybe towards the end of Deimos it wouldn't be too bad.

Doom 3 takes place on Mars - not Phobos and Deimos, and I wish I could agree, but as it seems to me that you will only get to Hell very late in the game, I think the archie should be there earlier.

[AirRaid]

/me wonders what the monster ressurections would look like in the new engine...

Pretty fucking cool, I think :D