Let's talk about Quake 1!

Using rockets against a shambler is a waste of ammo. If you don't have nails or cells, SSG it is.

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54 minutes ago, nxGangGirl said:

Uh, no, there's still the axe. I still use the single barreled shotgun against certain long distance targets to conserve ammo. Often against ogre's, knights, and spawns. So unlike Doom's pistol, the shotgun still has some value.

This. Although it doesn't seem to conserve ammo: I've found the Ogre takes 10 single shotgun rounds to take down, but four super shotgun blasts, so while I'm preferring the hang back and shotgun snipe method on a lot of enemies (they seem to get hung up on the environment quite a bit; as an older individual I notice this as a flaw I didn't really perceive as an awestruck child, but isn't making me dislike the game at all and is a tremendous help in my first ever Nightmare run) it isn't saving me any ammo, except that I'm not using up my nails by doing so.

 

Enemies hanging up on the environment seems to be a common thing in the vanilla map though. Fiends are ridiculously easy to cheese, either by leading them to a doorway, set of stairs or tricking them into jumping into a pit and then shotgun sniping them. Scrags have a hard time understanding the concept of ducking under doorways. All the enemies track in the same way as Doom, so utilizing corners and quick SSG blasts is relatively easy. Only enemy that gives me a pain in my ass is the damn Shambler. In "The Road to Chthon" when you pick up the gold key, if you don't run the hell away you're dead in a matter of seconds. In E2M6 on the final elevator, two shamblers on NM is pretty cheap and again, with almost zero cover you're guaranteed dead* (shortly before in the same level, you fight one Shambler with the same amount of cover and it isn't a problem at all). Add that to the low chance of a pain state and constant attack and unless you have the Lightning Gun or Super Nailgun they're a huge pain in my ass. Maybe I should be ducking and weaving with the SSG? I dunno, I figure I just need to get good TBH. Especially since I know the plethora of user maps are going to be utilizing enemies much, much better. (AD is a lot of fun so far.)

Not looking forward to the Vore encounters I know are coming up shortly. Gonna be lots of save/load.

 

*Yes, I reloaded an old save and utilized the Pentagram of Protection for this encounter; I may be an idiot, I do understand item management. :P Funny thing is, when I did the second Shambler telefragged the first one and I didn't need to worry as much. Pmsl

Edited by Johnatone

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2 hours ago, Johnatone said:

I've found the Ogre takes 10 single shotgun rounds to take down, but four super shotgun blasts

Strange, it's typically 8 for me.

 

Although I just looked at the source, and SG shoots 6 pellets, while the SSG shoots 14.

 

Edited by Da Werecat
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2 hours ago, nxGangGirl said:

Uh, no, there's still the axe. I still use the single barreled shotgun against certain long distance targets to conserve ammo. Often against ogre's, knights, and spawns. So unlike Doom's pistol, the shotgun still has some value.

I do the same, especially against Scrags at long distance.  Having that shotgun as the base weapon (ignoring the axe) was the perfect move, I think.

 

1 hour ago, Da Werecat said:

Strange, it's typically 8 for me.

 

Although I just looked at the source, and SG shoots 6 pelletes, while the SSG shoots 14.

Yep.  Each pellet does 4 damage, meaning a max of 24 damage for a normal shotgun blast, and 56 for a double barreled blast.  An Ogre has 200 HP, so it about 3.6 double barreled blasts to take one down.

 

Oddly the axe does 20 damage lol

 

https://www.quaddicted.com/quake/monsters

https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Quake_QuakeC_source

http://wiki.quakeworld.nu/Weapons

Edited by YukiRaven
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10 hours ago, Gothic Box said:

Doom: Mostly low HP enemies, a few medium HP enemies, and very few high HP enemies 

Q1SP: Mostly medium HP enemies, a few low HP enemies, and very few high HP enemies.

The transition to 3D made enemies stronger than their sprite-based counterparts to compensate for there being fewer of them present on screen or in a level in general. Which is why enemies seem to get bullet spongy around this time (Hexen II, Half-Life, Unreal).

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1 hour ago, YukiRaven said:

Yep.  Each pellet does 4 damage, meaning a max of 24 damage for a normal shotgun blast, and 56 for a double barreled blast.  An Ogre has 200 HP, so it about 3.6 double barreled blasts to take one down.

In which case I'm going to chalk my 10 shot theory to terrible aim on my part. Which makes a lot of sense in my mind anyway, as I'm just terrible at everything.

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Hm. I downloaded and installed Quoth. Pretty cool, except it when I finish the 2nd level, it says there's nothing for e1m3. It looks like mine might be an isolated incident.

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Quoth isn't really a campaign, it's an asset pack for mappers. It has a few demo maps of its own - an old (and presumably abandoned) attempt to remake the entire Quake with Quoth additions and moar detail™, but if you want to play more, you should search for user maps.

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3 hours ago, Job said:

Hm. I downloaded and installed Quoth. Pretty cool, except it when I finish the 2nd level, it says there's nothing for e1m3. It looks like mine might be an isolated incident.

That's the impression I got too, unfortunate but I'm guessing there is user content with it in mind as Da Werecat implies.

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Subterranean Library is probably my favourite Quake map and requires Quoth. I'd say it's a must play for Quake fans. 

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I guess if we're referencing Quake ports now... Darkplaces. Altough for a while I Just used GLQuake.

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Well, I'll say that it's certainly an experience, alright. I've only ever beaten it once, though.

 

I almost feel like replaying it now...

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Though I love both games, I've always preferred the combat in Quake 1 to Doom, and it's because the enemies all felt far more dynamic. The first time I encountered and ogre in e1m2, it kicked my ass because I was so unaccustomed to early enemies having that much health, because I was in the mindset of Doom and it's many cannon fodder enemies. There were a few levels in the base game that were just a pain in the ass though, specifically e2m4 and e3m4 because of some real cheap enemy placement.

 

It was the custom maps that really cemented my love for the game though, because so many of them just perfect what the original levels were attempting.

 

My favorite custom map is The Masque of Red Death, probably one of the fairest slaughter maps on offer in Quake 1.

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Here are the ways Quake improves on Doom: music, item sounds, monster sounds, gore, puzzle design. The atmosphere in both games is frightening, to say the least. 

Other than that I still prefer all the idtech1 games over Quake I, even Hexen.

 

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1 hour ago, Cupboard said:

The atmosphere in both games is frightening, to say the least.

I disagree. Doom's atmosphere isn't as frightening as Quake's IMO. Doom scared me as a kid, but I still had the enough courage to finish the first episode, whereas with Quake, I wouldn't even go past the first level (and we didn't even have the music CD).

 

I can see Doom being pretty damn scary back in the day, since it was almost VR at that point, but nowadys only a couple levels are able to create a somewhat frightening atmosphere. Quake's atmosphere on the other hand, while not terrifying, does a good job even today.

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One level that really scares me is E4M4: The Palace of Hate. This sprawling map is crawling with Fiends and Shamblers, I always find myself returning to it.

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Doom's style always felt a bit like an adult cartoon to me.  It was serious, but not scary.  Quake was creepier and had a grittier feel, part of which was the palette and textures, and part of which was the lighting.

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The only thing scary about Doom is having to hear D_RUNNIN again.

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Just now, CARRiON said:

The only thing scary about Doom is having to hear D_RUNNIN again.

Such an amazing tune. 

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On 7/21/2017 at 5:36 PM, Job said:

Hm. I downloaded and installed Quoth. Pretty cool, except it when I finish the 2nd level, it says there's nothing for e1m3. It looks like mine might be an isolated incident.

The first 2 E1 remake maps were made to showcase what you could do with Quoth entities. e3m1 was never created, but you could check out this nifty E1M5 remake if you haven't already. Also, do be on the lookout for the upcoming Map Jam 9 that is being held over at func_msgboard. That will require quoth when it's out.

Edited by Breezeep
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4 hours ago, CARRiON said:

The only thing scary about Doom is having to hear D_RUNNIN again.

Why does everyone hate D_RUNNIN? Or do they actually love it and saying they hate it is some obscure meme? Personally I love it, especially when it gets to the solo.

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5 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Why does everyone hate D_RUNNIN? Or do they actually love it and saying they hate it is some obscure meme? Personally I love it, especially when it gets to the solo.

No, because most single maps that replace MAP01 don't change the music.

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1 hour ago, Nevander said:

Why does everyone hate D_RUNNIN? Or do they actually love it and saying they hate it is some obscure meme? Personally I love it, especially when it gets to the solo.

I've heard it so many times that at this point it honestly gives me a headache now. I've probably heard this song more times then any other VGM, ever.

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