What would have made Doom 3 perfect to you?

2 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:

Are you thirteen?

haha, cute.

you're close. I'm 11

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9 hours ago, MFG38 said:

The world, yes, but not so much the weapons.

They're hit or miss, yeah. Preferentially I didn't mind some of the weapons being a bit quieter as the sound didn't become over-bearing. Not every weapon needs to blow your ear-drums, but I still want to feel the powah.

 

The pistol sounds meatier and packs a bigger punch than the original. I think the shotgun sounds pretty good, maybe a bit bassy, but the way it sounds is disproportionate to its actual power in battle, which influenced my opinion about it. The double-barreled shotgun in RoE, on the other hand, is a monstrous killing machine that sounds like a fucking Howitzer, and I loved using it. The chaingun and plasma rifle, despite sounding good and looking powerful, were mostly useless during my play-throughs. The machine gun was the most versatile weapon of the rapid-fire bunch, but it sounded like a tin can caught in the spokes of a bicycle. The rocket launcher is beefy all-around. The BFG is the biggest disappointment of them all, making a wimpy little "pew" sound. Doom64 still holds the BFG championship in my book.

 

Even though it only showed up in a few places and doesn't operate the same way as the original, the Doom3 berserk has a special charm all its own. Namely: aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *SMACK SMACK SMACK* eeeeeEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHH *SMACK SMACK SMACK* YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGH

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I would have liked to see roaming monsters as opposed to them just teleporting in, if it was like that, it would have been a little less predictable.

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On 21.07.2017 at 1:56 AM, Megalyth said:

They're hit or miss, yeah. Preferentially I didn't mind some of the weapons being a bit quieter as the sound didn't become over-bearing. Not every weapon needs to blow your ear-drums, but I still want to feel the powah.

 

The pistol sounds meatier and packs a bigger punch than the original. I think the shotgun sounds pretty good, maybe a bit bassy, but the way it sounds is disproportionate to its actual power in battle, which influenced my opinion about it. The double-barreled shotgun in RoE, on the other hand, is a monstrous killing machine that sounds like a fucking Howitzer, and I loved using it. The chaingun and plasma rifle, despite sounding good and looking powerful, were mostly useless during my play-throughs. The machine gun was the most versatile weapon of the rapid-fire bunch, but it sounded like a tin can caught in the spokes of a bicycle. The rocket launcher is beefy all-around. The BFG is the biggest disappointment of them all, making a wimpy little "pew" sound. Doom64 still holds the BFG championship in my book.

 

Even though it only showed up in a few places and doesn't operate the same way as the original, the Doom3 berserk has a special charm all its own. Namely: aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *SMACK SMACK SMACK* eeeeeEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHH *SMACK SMACK SMACK* YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGH

The D64 BFG literally says "POWAH" when you fire it.

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I'm a bit conservative about doom 3 since i grew up playing it and i pretty much love it as it is, but i couldn't beg enough for a shotgun with a thighter spread.

 

And a bit more variation on the jumpscares wouldn't hurt too even if they get me all the time.

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Its really not a big deal, the game was great.

BUT SHIT.

Those weapon sounds are disgusting.

The shotgun, the rifle, the rocket.

They sound so weak! 

I think thats all. Ah... also, the granade is useless and the shotgun is OP at 1 feet away, 2 feet and is like a pistol. 

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Less jumpscares, more varied scripted sequences, less giant ambushes of enemies, and stronger weapons.

I've only played the BFG Edition, so maybe the original has better enemy placement. I also would've liked more ambient lighting in BFG and better fov.

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I was not too fond of the shotgun in the game, and the way you had to be really close to your enemy in order for it to do any kind of damage. I'm fine with it doing negligible damage at really long range, but medium to close range is good for a boomstick in general.

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On 9/2/2017 at 11:23 PM, Anidrex_1009 said:

Its really not a big deal, the game was great.

BUT SHIT.

Those weapon sounds are disgusting.

The shotgun, the rifle, the rocket.

They sound so weak! 

I think thats all. Ah... also, the granade is useless and the shotgun is OP at 1 feet away, 2 feet and is like a pistol. 

Tip: replace the player's pistol and machinegun sounds with the ones used by zombies. Beware though that the zombies' pistol is quite loud, maybe too loud for its level :)

 

Also fun fact: the player's shotgun from Doom 3 is as inaccurate as the monsters' bullets from Doom 1 and 2. Actually it's even worse because it also spreads vertically. Meanwhile, the zombies' shotgun from Doom 3 is as accurate as your single shotgun from Doom 1 and 2. This is why they're so dangerous and kinda rare too (in comparison to the machinegunners).

 

The Doom 3 expansion SSG however is as accurate as the Doom 2 SSG, just about twice as powerful. And this makes it much more accurate than the simple shotgun! So don't assume that it's as crappy as that gun, and just use it without worries.

 

I think grenades are useful if you want to save rockets. The corridor architecture of the Mars installations makes it a good weapon.

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Doom3 was the same idea as Quake, the first game released on the new level of tech, so it has some of the same issues/drawbacks in my mind... not enough enemies in the maps, and I wish the levels were more 'expansive' spanning more area overall. I really like the survival horror elements like the PDAs and lockers and stuff, in-game storytelling is awesome as long as it's hopefully not overdone in an 'action' title, depending on the circumstances.

 

Doom 3 to me as a player feels like the middle part of the game is too long, the hell invasion starts with imps and demons too soon, and there is not enough of a "hell" section at the end at least in comparison to the original. An extended intro with the possessed humans and more abstract stuff with mars base/hell interaction going on would have made the game much more interesting imho.

 

Edited by reflex17

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Well... assuming it is STILL Doom 3 we're talking about and we're not allowed to just say "Make it classic Doom, but three dee and with a more believable world/structure", and we have to keep the whole pseudo-survival horror game angle and all that but only change bits of it... here's what I'd do:

 

  • No cutscenes.  This is a lesson that should have been learned from Half-Life.  Let dialogues unrelated to Doomguy happen in the environment naturally, and if the player wants to go and overhear, they can.  It makes it more immersive, and will feed into one of the strengths Doom 3 already has: The atmosphere.
  • Give Betruger an actual character beyond "MWAHAHAHA, DEMONS!"  Make him intimidating.  Make him interesting.
  • Another lesson to learn from Half-Life:  Shake things up.  In Half-Life, something was always going wrong.  Doom 3 lulled into repetition way, way too quickly.  Considering how accomplished the atmosphere was - if there was crazy shit constantly going wrong, it'd keep the players much more frightened and on edge.  For example... remember that one moment where you walk by a door, it flys open, and a spooky monster you've never seen before pops out of a fleshy door-vagina and screams at you?  Have that thing fucking stalk you throughout the level, and establish that this isn't like other monsters you encountered, and maybe have a bit where you have to fight your way out to the surface while this thing that you have no hopes of destroying rages after you?  That could be a neat little encounter.  More crazy setpieces, basically.  
  • Have faster movement and more open areas, and in fact, start in those open areas.  Establish to the player how much more comfortable and nice it is being in open areas.  Then make the tight, claustrophobic bits mean something.  I wanna say to myself "But I don't wanna go into the cramped corridor that is echoing with the sounds of what can only be described as "Demon Rape."  
  • Better sound design.  The Trent Reznor soundpack shows how the game probably should have sounded.  
  • A more mindfucky Hell.  Hell is already the highlight of the game... but I still wish it played more tricks on the player, as it were.  Make the place more than just creepy, make it anxiety inducing.  It's a realm of infinite possibilities.  Give the player a world that doesn't play by any of the rules previously established.

 

That'd work great for me.  I actually am something of a Doom 3 apologist who enjoys it on its own merits, but of course there is always room for improvement.

 

 

 

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Different name - definitely not Doom.

 

Less "scares" and more puzzles(+more traditional key hunts). Less "cinematic bogus".

Maybe a bit of a different art style, but that's nit picking. Different weapon sounds. Good gibbing instead of this stupid "double dissolve" animation. More feedback from enemies when they get hit.

 

id could have definitely pulled it off but they burdened themselves with a brand name that guaranteed sales and pulled them into a corner with some kind of modern/old-school hybrid game.

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- No limited stamina, and no weapon reloading.

It's really damn frustrating when you get ganged up on and lose 75% of your health to weak enemies, just because you happened to run out of stamina in mid-fight, or switched to a machinegun without realizing it only had like 2 bullets left. (It's even more annoying because you don't automatically reload once the magazine is empty, only once the fire button is pressed, so if you fail to notice you have zero ammo in the magazine, your next fight is going to begin rather awkwardly.)

- Get rid of the Cherubs. Everything is terrible about them: they have just enough health to be a nuisance to put down (unlike Trites and Lost Souls), and they can instantly leap at you from like a damn kilometer away (and their leaping animation really ticks me off for some reasons, it looks like they just kinda flop at you spastically.)

- Actually the Commandos' tentacle attack is also pretty annoying because of how long-range and nearly unavoidable it is. Tone it down, and maybe increase the damage to make up for the nerf.

- Make the Cyberdemon fight a real challenge, put in some tougher enemies in the fight. Imps and Maggots are barely a roadbump at that point in the game.

 

 

EDIT: Wow this mostly consists of complains. Well if I was to discuss what would have made the game "perfect" to me... I guess...

- More detailed and memorable storyline (e.g. witness Kelly's turn to evil first-hand, instead of having Swann tell you "oh Kelly turned evil while you weren't looking" followed by encountering a mutant Kelly who just spouts the same line over and over, gets killed and is never mentioned again)

- maybe have the demons taunt you/speak to you in Hell, to give them a bit more character

- more glimpses of the Martian civilization, and maybe of the demons' history (supposedly they ruled the Earth long ago, but this is just a throwaway line never elaborated on)

- less embarrassingly cheesy lines (e.g. the "DIE" "SUFFER" messages in Delta Lab... I felt like laughing when first seeing that, did an emo teenager write them?)

- more music

Edited by JudgeDeadd

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I've posted already but I will revise my stance. First I wanna say that I love Doom 3 for what it is and will cherish it forever. id went in a survival/horror direction with the game and this is just what I would do to make it stronger in that regard.

 

No evil laughing. It's my biggest pet peeve with the game.

 

Less ammo. Not much needs to be said here.

 

Make the environment more open ended and spooky. Give the player the chance to feel lost.

 

Less scripting. The game is too predictable. Hear a teleporting sound? You know you're in a fight. Hear an imp hissing from somewhere? Pshh, okay game, whatever. Making things ambiguous would go a long way towards genuinely terrorizing the player. This obviously means more advanced AI so I don't blame id if the resources weren't there for it at the time.

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11 hours ago, JudgeDeadd said:

- Actually the Commandos' tentacle attack is also pretty annoying because of how long-range and nearly unavoidable it is. Tone it down, and maybe increase the damage to make up for the nerf.

It's possible to duck and both dodge attack easily and leap onward after to take them down in single shotgun blast.

Edited by Quadrops

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My opinion most likely differs from everyone else here in an extremely major way, but this is my opinion on how Doom 3 should've been:

 

1. Don't make the shotgun pump sound like a dying robocat, and please make it an actual viable weapon, not something to force you to dismember an imp so you can shoot directly into his brain to deal any damage

2. The machinegun is pretty good as it is, but it sounds to me like it's shooting pillows

3. I don't want Doomguy to have a seizure every time he takes a hit. I think it's supposed to be more realistic, but I think it makes the game absurdly hard when you're up against multiple gun zombies.

4. I'm fucking blind unless I have the flashlight equipped. This is the only reason I prefer playing BFG Edition, I can actually fight without needing to sacrifice vision (I know Perfected Doom 3 does this, but for some reason the flashlight doesn't actually work when I'm close to something). But even then it's still impossible to see anything.

 

It's kind of a laundry list on my end, but tldr I wish it followed the same principles as Doom and Doom II (heavy metal background music, fast action, basically everything that made Doom great); hell, if they made it run on an improved Doom II engine, that would've been even better!

 

Also, make it much less boring. It's the same pattern: kill imp, find someone's PDA, unlock door, try to fight, end level. The original Doom followed a pattern too, yes, but it wasn't boring. In Doom 3 it gets awfully boring awfully quick. I hadn't even finished the first two maps before minutes felt like hours.

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I used to be a fanboy of the flashlight / gun switching, but then I realized that head mounted flashlights whose batteries last the entirety of Doom 3's playthrough are commonplace in real life, so yeah, Doomguy really should have been equipped with a helmet light, and ditch that oldfashioned hand torch. The player wouldn't use it all the time anyway -- there's a human reflex to keep the lights off when ambient light is enough. But as further discouragement, they could make the lights wake up more monsters and danger... or make monsters aim for your headlight, damaging it for a short while.

 

Shotgun zombies are overpowered. I'm glad id preferred the much more balanced machinegun zombies, and I cringe every time I see the shotgun zombies in custom maps.

 

 

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Don't know if it would make it "perfect" for me, but here are my list of suggestions (most of which have already been mentioned):

 

- Don't have characters constantly yell at me to "pick up the pace". It's not scary, it's just obnoxious and it impairs my ability to enjoy the game. Let me explore the game world at my own leisurely pace thank you very much. This is especially dumb considering that the game engine and the levels are designed around exploring every nook and cranny.

 

- Better written characters. I'd have liked both Sgt. Kelly and Betruger to have had more likable characteristics. A Dr. Betruger who wasn't an over-the-top asshole from the start, although I do find some of his over-the-top lines funny.

 

- Less reliance on melee-oriented monsters. I don't get why having every second monster into a melee beast would make them scarier, when fear factor should come from their aggression and ability to easily do a lot of damage to the player from afar.

 

- Don't use Imp and "Imp-wannabe" enemies so frequently. The Pinky was underused and so were Mancubi and the Hell Knight. Generally more variety in enemy types and enemy attacks and behaviors and incorporate it in the level design.

 

- More colour variation on the enemies - too many enemies are basically grey-skinned. A few are brown.

 

- Give the shotgun a tiny bit more range; it should remain a close-quarters weapon, but not to the point of making it a 'melee' weapon with the ability to do extremely negligible damage at a few paces away. It's a firearm, make it feel like it.

 

- Slow the fire rate of shotgun-toting zombies and give their buckshot more spread. I'm fine with them being a threat, but the way it is makes it seem like they have a superior shotgun to the one the player is using and it's a discrepancy that's hard to ignore.

 

- Have more of the game take place in Hell. Also have the base facilities leading up to Hell be more obviously warped and Hellish (and make the same locations even tougher to recognize due to Hellish transformation when you return from Hell). Also, have more outdoor areas and get rid of the "limited oxygen" deal.

I generally feel that the Techbase theme vastly overstays its welcome and the game lacks a proper "Shores of Hell" theme that merges Hell and Base themes into a distinctive third theme. I also think the game has too many of the levels be "realistic" - having some of the later techbase levels be warped by Hell would be an excellent excuse to introduce an element of surrealism to not only mess with the player's mind, but also change up the gameplay experience.

 

- Have the Wraith's phase ability less obvious - a simple ghostly fog effect over the creature turning more and more translucent until it disappears would've been creepier and would perhaps made its movements less obvious to track. Also make the enemy less Imp-like in appearance (should've looked more like a smaller, slender version of the Pinky).
 

- Much fewer locked cabinets and less code hunting. Also on that note, have text alongside the Audio Logs to make codes more accessible and less of a chore to acquire through listening to audio, while hiding PDAs with non-optional codes in secret areas.

Edited by dsm
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Not sure about perfect but I never understood why Hell was only one level. After hours upon hours of techbases why do we get back to techbases right when the game just got interesting?! 

 

I think Doom 3's Hell was very well crafted. You can see plenty classic Doom as well as Quake 1 influences if you are attentive. It is a very interesting aesthetic experience that I wish had been developed in more levels. I particularly loved how each room was different in the BFG Edition levels, it was quite a treat. I also get the feeling that the new Hell levels were made using only vanilla textures which I really liked for some reason. Shame we had to go through MORE techbases to see them. The pacing of the game was all over the place.

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Someone would hate me for this but I like more Doom 3 than Doom 2, and I put it equal (or maybe a little inferior) to Doom 1 episode 1 (in quality).

Doom 3 have a great atmosphere and and it immerse you in the role of a marine struggling for survive. (I never wanted to consider the Doom 3 character as Doomguy, but as a regular marine.) I mean, playing it in a hard difficulty you feel that you're weak as another human being, you don't feel like a killing machine (like Doom 2 and episode 2 and 3 of Doom 1), you feel like the one there who knows that everything is fucked is you. You can sense the tension and fear, you feel paranoid, desperate, etc... like any mortal in that situation. Doom 3 it's great for that, because you're not a super-human killing machine but a desperate marine scared as hell fighting every sh*t that comes to survive. And I compare Doom 3 with Doom 1 episode 1 because it gave me the same feeling, in that episode (if you play it for first time) you don't feel like a super bad-ass killing machine at all.

Answering the question, What would have made Doom 3 perfect to me?.

1. Century 1230189239112312 and you don't have a flashlight in your suit/weapons.
2. Maybe less maps (yes, the game was too large and It can get boring/repetitive after the first 10 maps, but Hell was awesome).

3. A little more history, along with point 2. I mean, I wanted to know more about betruger, swann, and the ancient martians. 

4. MORE MAPS IN HELL. Damn, hell was amazing.

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Doom 3 would have been perfect for me if it basically had all the gameplay of Unreal Tournament but level based with all the enemies of Doom.

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