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Steve D

Abcess - 6-map Doom 2 episode - Now on Idgames

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On 7/24/2017 at 2:13 PM, dobu gabu maru said:

lol goddamn steve it's a little 90s game where you shoot colorful demons, not a death metal album cover. If you want something bloody yet aesthetically pleasing, use one of Jordan Eagles' works (like this). Also I don't think copyright issues necessarily apply to repaletted, low res pictures, no? It's not like you're selling the wad or claiming the art as your own.

Thanks for the Jordan Eagles link. Even though I think I have permanently solved my titlepic issues, too much is never enough. And besides, there's interpics to think about. As for death metal album covers, DoTW mentioned some . . .

 

I'll admit, I went all scaredy-cat when I heard about a couple files being pulled off idgames owing to copyright issues. DoTW explained that the biggest danger is using copyrighted MP3s. And . . . I'm willing to run the risk, at least with RoIC. We'll see how it turns out.

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On 7/24/2017 at 11:56 PM, Obsidian said:

See, now I'm curious as to what the original picture was. XD

I can PM it to you if you're not bothered by viewing a medical procedure on an open abscess wound.

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6 hours ago, rdwpa said:

01-02 were a couple I wasn't in the mood for yesterday, with all the ledge hitscanners and emphasis on small-arms combat. Amusingly in 01 when I first saw a chaingunner I thought for a second, 'wait what's a chaingunner doing in a D1 map' -- the Shotgun Symphony origins aren't too hard to discern. In 02 the instapop trap in the water near the end made me chuckle, because I was just thinking, 'no way is this area trapped'.

 

06 is pretty fine difficulty-wise. It's also possible to just bolt from the first fight while holding down fire with the chaingun, fleeing back to the start area. In the last big rev fight there is lots of space, so that should be fairly manageable. 

Since Impie brought up the high snipers in Map01, and since they weren't part of the original design, what do you think about maybe getting rid of those snipers? I floated the idea of using hanging twitcher decorations up there, and maybe stuffing more monsters into the closets behind the platforms, so that players who find the platform-lowering switch would face even more come-back enemies than now. I already have elevated sniper positions -- with switches -- from the original design that will stay. Another thing, you currently have to find that secret door to get up to the chaingunner rooms. You lucked out because I forgot to put a Block Monster flag on the lift and door, so a chaingunner opened it for you. Because I test with foreknowledge in mind, it never occurred to me that a player who fails to find that door, and who goes and fights all those elevated snipers from below, would feel like they'd wasted their time and failed to accomplish anything. So maybe I should use a regular, visible door instead?

 

I'm happy you found the secret RL on Map02. Sometimes I wonder why I put IMO fun traps like that in secret areas. I put that trail of rockets in the nukage based on DoTW's suggestion, and it made for a nice improvement. On the pop-up water trap, that was not in the 2001 original full episode, which I just found again. There used to be nothing there, but I figured players would go back there and be disappointed with empty water. Of course, putting Revvies and a Manc down there, and with the RL being a secret, might be a dodgy move, too. ;D

 

You completely nerfed the final battle in Map06. I had a feeling your skill level was too high. I always suffer in that battle, even with the BFG and Megasphere. And it was hell with just a PG. I unfortunately have to Rambo that fight, because I don't have the skill to hang back and BFG Cybs from up close. I have no choice but to run out there and try to provoke infights. It was really nasty with just the PG because Cacos draw your fire. Indeed, it was such a miserable experience for me that I wonder if I should put a free BFG -- out in the middle of the damaging floor in the main room, so players have to get into the thick of battle to grab it. Another worry I had with the mass of Revvies and Imps at the end was whether it was just boring monster spam. If a player hesitates, the Revvies and Imps from behind can close off the escape route. Otherwise, you can just run out there and start spamming rockets and plasma. The first revision just had those 2 banks of Revvies right by the radsuit and blue armor. Maybe that was enough?

 

Again, many thanks.

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7 hours ago, Veinen said:

The first big battle is probably the most dangerous event in the map since you're initially sandwiched in relatively tight quarters. The final arena is, in comparison, much less punishing if the player can just handle multiple Cybers at once (please ignore the face rocket in the demo, I forgot to dodge :D) since there is a lot of space to move around. I like the damaging floors in this part a lot, which add another dimension especially to the Cyber encounter. I had 200/200 so I wasn't too concerned about the damaging floors initially but if the player is not in such good shape, the battle can be a bit trickier I think. The sections in between the aforementioned ones could've been beefier for my tastes to be honest. The cavernous areas would've been perfect for some Caco-wave action or pesky distant Pain Elementals for example...

 

The age of the map does show in the general layout and style I think. I mean, this is more or less a hub map with linear completely linear progression. The map can be easily separated into a handful of large parts, each with it's own distinct texture theme. The music in this map didn't loop for me so it was basically silence after the first fight. I wasn't too dissatisfied by that though because the music was pretty damn loud in glboom+.

Hey, good to see you again, Veinen, and thanks muchly for the FDA!

 

I had some music-loop issues in PrBoom 2.5.1.4, where it would start and then come back and stop again. I think I have a fixed version of the file, so I should use that or maybe another Breathless track. I was happy that the between-maps music had the right volume for you and rdwpa.

 

You are also too good of a player to really get nailed by these fights. On the first fight, rdwpa took out the initial wave of monsters in the hallways, which I can also do, but it gives me problems. You went all the way back to the start, but whenever I do that, I sign my death warrant. What happens is that I can't stop the heavy monsters from crowding that entryway, so they begin to push me back, and then the Pain Elementals emerge, and from that point it's just a matter of time before I get killed. I typically fight the hordes from the water area, so I can use the columns for cover, but once that started to feel too easy, I threw the Mancs, Revvies and Chaingunners down there to spice it up. So for me, the good thing is the player has many options for that battle, depending on their skill level and playstyle. The worrying aspect is they can get nailed with infinite-height issues in PrBoom if they fight in the water like I do. 

 

Yes, it is indeed a linear old hub map. I don't mind that type of gameplay, since you're always going into new areas. And there's a lot of new enemies for the backtrack legs, plus ways to switch things around and get into fights out of sequence, like when you fell off the blue key platform. DoTW also mentioned wishing there was heavier action between the big battles. I think I was going for mood and suspense -- something I basically suck at -- so I tried to keep things just percolating between the main encounters. I also wasn't the huge Cacoswarm fan I am now, but those suckers manage to follow you around and make a nuisance of themselves throughout that area. And we're at 400+ monsters already. But ya never know, I could change my mind.

 

Killer job on getting 11 out of 12 secrets on the first-run. It would have been fun to watch you tackle the final fight with a PG instead of BFG, but secret-hunting is intended to be part of the fun, so it's all good. 

Edited by Steve D

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40 minutes ago, Steve D said:

Since Impie brought up the high snipers in Map01, and since they weren't part of the original design, what do you think about maybe getting rid of those snipers? I floated the idea of using hanging twitcher decorations up there, and maybe stuffing more monsters into the closets behind the platforms, so that players who find the platform-lowering switch would face even more come-back enemies than now. I already have elevated sniper positions -- with switches -- from the original design that will stay. Another thing, you currently have to find that secret door to get up to the chaingunner rooms. You lucked out because I forgot to put a Block Monster flag on the lift and door, so a chaingunner opened it for you. Because I test with foreknowledge in mind, it never occurred to me that a player who fails to find that door, and who goes and fights all those elevated snipers from below, would feel like they'd wasted their time and failed to accomplish anything. So maybe I should use a regular, visible door instead?

 

Yeah these ideas seem good. The enemies you face on your return are a cool mechanic (one of my favorite things in the mapset), and I wouldn't mind a bit more of them. About that secret door, I'm a bit conflicted: it'd be smoother to be able to always fight the chaingunners head on, but design choices like the secret door always add flair/mystery to a map. I guess it would depend on what you'd want to prioritize more in this instance. I don't think the sniping in this case is much of a nuisance in a vacuum, so in this case, removing the early shotgunner quartets that one has to pistol out (or replacing them with former human troopers) might go a long way towards making it feel better, because much of the annoyance with the chaingunners, if any, would probably be 'oh I have to do this again?' Another compromise would simply be to reduce the number of chaingunners there in half.

 

40 minutes ago, Steve D said:

I'm happy you found the secret RL on Map02. Sometimes I wonder why I put IMO fun traps like that in secret areas. I put that trail of rockets in the nukage based on DoTW's suggestion, and it made for a nice improvement. On the pop-up water trap, that was not in the 2001 original full episode, which I just found again. There used to be nothing there, but I figured players would go back there and be disappointed with empty water. Of course, putting Revvies and a Manc down there, and with the RL being a secret, might be a dodgy move, too. ;D

 

Yeah I should mention that I also noticed there wasn't that much rocket ammo. It felt like a 'surgical use' weapon, to get rid of one or two mid-tiers in the beefier encounters. 10 or so more rockets (perhaps in another secret if you're still open to changing geometry) would be cool.

 

40 minutes ago, Steve D said:

You completely nerfed the final battle in Map06. I had a feeling your skill level was too high. I always suffer in that battle, even with the BFG and Megasphere. And it was hell with just a PG. I unfortunately have to Rambo that fight, because I don't have the skill to hang back and BFG Cybs from up close. I have no choice but to run out there and try to provoke infights. It was really nasty with just the PG because Cacos draw your fire. Indeed, it was such a miserable experience for me that I wonder if I should put a free BFG -- out in the middle of the damaging floor in the main room, so players have to get into the thick of battle to grab it. Another worry I had with the mass of Revvies and Imps at the end was whether it was just boring monster spam. If a player hesitates, the Revvies and Imps from behind can close off the escape route. Otherwise, you can just run out there and start spamming rockets and plasma. The first revision just had those 2 banks of Revvies right by the radsuit and blue armor. Maybe that was enough?

 

I think the revenants would be a fun and cathartic conclusion even for a player who gets the jump on them and renders them harmless. I guess the players who dislike slaughter gameplay might find it tedious regardless, but given that you are using it, I thought it worked fine as is. It felt like a suitable sendoff.

 

Handing out a free BFG actually seems like a good idea if only because it's mildly engaging to fight cybers efficiently with the BFG with the other three cybers' rockets whizzing around, but potentially smoother/faster than plasma-ing down all of them. So I think if it lowers the threat level, it's only in the good way (making it potentially less frustrating for those who find it tough PR-only, without removing the excitement for others). 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Love it so far. Thumbs up for using standard Doom textures.

 

In the wad, you have an entry named PP_START which is actually a graphic title - "Death To You". I assume it's meant to be an M_xxxx difficulty level indicator, but I'm not sure which one. It's followed by an 'Untitled' marker, an RSKY1 graphic, D_RUNNIN music and then PP_END.

 

Working my way through MAP04 right now. Found a bug/exploit. You can run off the secret Computer Map platform and go through the low window across the way into the HK/AV room. I thought I found a huge secret area. Then I saw the exit sign. Fought my way there, but since I didn't have the Blue Key, I was stuck. I suppose the fastest fix would be to have the inside of that low window be a lift to let the player get back to exactly where he was. In retrospect, I like the idea of expecting the player finding a secret way to get to the exit, only to make him go back to get the key. Would it be too dickish to re-populate the area around the Blue Key door after he leaves?

 

If I find more, I'll post more. Considering the previous conversation, I'm looking forward to and wary of MAP06.

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4 hours ago, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Working my way through MAP04 right now. Found a bug/exploit. You can run off the secret Computer Map platform and go through the low window across the way into the HK/AV room. I thought I found a huge secret area. Then I saw the exit sign. Fought my way there, but since I didn't have the Blue Key, I was stuck. I suppose the fastest fix would be to have the inside of that low window be a lift to let the player get back to exactly where he was. In retrospect, I like the idea of expecting the player finding a secret way to get to the exit, only to make him go back to get the key. Would it be too dickish to re-populate the area around the Blue Key door after he leaves?

 

If I find more, I'll post more. Considering the previous conversation, I'm looking forward to and wary of MAP06.

Glad you're enjoying it, Effingham. Let me know your final thoughts even if you find no more bugs.

 

Speaking of which, thanks for the info on the window-jump. I've tried that jump a few times but never made it, so I figured the window was too small. I should have put an impassable flag on that line the second I saw the possibility. I definitely do not want players going through there too early, though you're right, it does add some spice to the otherwise linear layout. And congrats on surviving in a room with a Hell Knight and Archie and no cover. I'm guessing found found the secret PG and/or BFG?

 

There is another exploit that DoTW found in Map03 that I left in. When you get the yellow key, the lift-gate on the guardhouse allows you to stand on it and leap through the window, giving you a shorter trip to the secret SSG. I left it in because it isn't super-drastic, and it was easy to add another trigger line for the Demons. But . . . if people like your window-jump exploit, maybe I'll remove the impassable flag and put a switch in there to lower the wall. I really do like the cinematic when people get there the intended way, though. ;)

 

Edit: I also fixed that PP_Start issue you noticed. "Death To You" is the name of Map02, but it must have snuck in there when I was adding CWILVs with XWE and it started spazzing on me. Thanks for the catch! I have, however, changed all the difficulty setting names in another mapset, Realm of Intensified Chaos, which I hope to have up for beta-testing before the end of August.

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Okay, so I lied and put up RC9. I hope it really is the last one, but you never know. :D Get it here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ab6g970l83r4i9a/AbcessRC9.wad

 

The OP has been updated.

 

From the OP notice: "This proves that I'm a lying jagoff. I felt RC9 was worth uploading because of the huge changes to Map01, which mainly involves getting rid of all but one platform sniper -- the original sniping Chaingunner -- and stuffing more monsters in the closets that descend if you find the switch that also lowers the Blue Armor platform. Gameplay is much zippier and the monster count is basically unchanged, so if anyone played it before and hated it, consider giving the new version a spin. Changes also made to Map02 -- more rockets and shells -- and Map04, where I put an impassable flag on a window you could jump through, and Map06, where I replaced the original version of Heat Miser with a fixed version that loops properly in PrBoom. I also gave away a free BFG at the final fight in Map06 after suffering too much without it on a zero-secret run. Here's hoping there will be no more RCs. ;)"

 

I did both zero and full-secret UV runs for Map01. In the zero secret run, after I killed all the overhead Chaingunners plus the ground riff-raff, I had 14 shells and 32 bullets, which is plenty of ammo. The zero secret run is a bit hairy at first, because you still have to kill a Sergeant sniping you from above to get his shotgun.  

 

Map02 received 2 rocket boxes and 12 shotgun shells to boost the ammo supply.

 

I also fixed the PP_Start issue EffinghamHuffnagel found. This is why we playtest. ;)

 

@40oz @Impie Thanks for your input, guys. I might be a complete and total jagoff, but I do want these maps to be fun. I actually enjoyed Map01 more without all the platform snipers. And it was still dangerous thanks to the traps and incidental combat. Consider checking it out if you get the time, and if you do, let me know if you think it's improved.

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A couple more demos: Mostly-FDA (fooled around in the hub room a bit on the first day) for 04, with RC7, and a replay of 01 (I didn't hate it but I wanted to replay it anyway), with RC9.

 

abcessrc7rc9_0401_stuff.zip

 

There's an infinitely tall use-press in 01, but nothing that breaks anything. In fact it allows you to handle the shotgun snipers a lot more smoothly, so I really like it. 

 

04 was a fun map. I think the last area suffers from 'hit a switch to hit a switch to hit a switch to finally get somewhere' syndrome, where you're circumnavigating the same place in a somewhat prolonged manner. That's a bit of a recurring trope in the mapset, but it's not done so often that it gets annoying, outside of probably this instance. I enjoyed the archvile in at the early soulsphere in particular.

 

Good classic stuff all around. The soundtrack is a nice touch too, even though .oggs aren't what you'd expect.

 

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Still MAP04. Red Key room. Should probably have impassable tags on the insides of the windows with an AV in the room. Not likely he'd bounce you out of the room, but possible.

 

To answer your question: Yes, I found the BFG. But I only needed it for the AV. The HK is standing in front of the window and activated when I grabbed the Computer Map. I picked him off long before I made the window jump.

 

Edit: i completely missed the the graphic was the name of MAP02. Doh! Maybe it's because those names don't show up on the automap. You'd need a Dehacked or Mapinfo to change those.

Edited by EffinghamHuffnagel

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Thanks for the detailed response, I can tell you spent a lot of time thinking a out this. (would you want to talk about it more on my podcast?)

 

I didnt get to post in time, but I wanted to say not modify your maps. I think you've been dealing with these maps for a very long time and if people have things to say about them, that's ok. You'll spend an eternity pandering to perfection with your maps. If people are telling you to do things differently, just apply that knowledge to your next maps.

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On 7/26/2017 at 11:33 PM, rdwpa said:

A couple more demos: Mostly-FDA (fooled around in the hub room a bit on the first day) for 04, with RC7, and a replay of 01 (I didn't hate it but I wanted to replay it anyway), with RC9.

 

abcessrc7rc9_0401_stuff.zip

 

There's an infinitely tall use-press in 01, but nothing that breaks anything. In fact it allows you to handle the shotgun snipers a lot more smoothly, so I really like it. 

 

04 was a fun map. I think the last area suffers from 'hit a switch to hit a switch to hit a switch to finally get somewhere' syndrome, where you're circumnavigating the same place in a somewhat prolonged manner. That's a bit of a recurring trope in the mapset, but it's not done so often that it gets annoying, outside of probably this instance. I enjoyed the archvile in at the early soulsphere in particular.

 

Good classic stuff all around. The soundtrack is a nice touch too, even though .oggs aren't what you'd expect.

 

The infinite-tall use exploit in Map01 is something I decided to leave in, since most people will only play the map once, and thus won't make use of it, while it gives speedrunners a little gift. They can really fly through it on UV-Fast.

 

DoTW made the same note about the end of Map04 in 2013, but at the time I had no ideas. Since you echoed his criticism, I decided to fix it this time by making one switch all you need to raise both platforms from the water. No more switch-puzzle. I also re-jiggered the room behind the blue door, so it has a nice little trap in it, which you activate from the platform where the secret cell charge pack used to be. I also removed the windowsills in the rooms overlooking the water, as well as the midgrates I put in their place, so now you can leap out of them, which is another little timesaver. Another change is removing all but one of the Chaingunner snipers in that area, since they seemed a bit cheap and also slowed gameplay at that point.

 

And  a belated thanks for your cool FDAs -- hard to believe this was a month ago. ;D They were tons of fun to watch.

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On 7/27/2017 at 0:23 AM, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

Still MAP04. Red Key room. Should probably have impassable tags on the insides of the windows with an AV in the room. Not likely he'd bounce you out of the room, but possible.

 

To answer your question: Yes, I found the BFG. But I only needed it for the AV. The HK is standing in front of the window and activated when I grabbed the Computer Map. I picked him off long before I made the window jump.

 

Edit: i completely missed the the graphic was the name of MAP02. Doh! Maybe it's because those names don't show up on the automap. You'd need a Dehacked or Mapinfo to change those.

Hi EffinghamHuffnagel, sorry it took me a month to reply. All the usual IRL excuses.

 

I'm glad you brought up those big windows in Map04. I've never been blown through them myself, but that's because I always take the "proper" route. A more aggressive player might get blown through, so I put a teleporter out there as a way back.

 

I never thought of changing the names on the automap. Bummer, it's too late now. I'll try to remember that for the next mapset.

 

Thanks again for your help. I hope to see you again when I put up Realm of Intensified Chaos. :) 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Steve D said:

when I put up Realm of Intensified Chaos.

 

AND WHEN WILL THIS BE?

Asking for a friend. ;)

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3 hours ago, Jayextee said:

 

AND WHEN WILL THIS BE?

Asking for a friend. ;)

Good question. Right now, I'm dicking around with the end of E1M7 in Shotgun Symphony, trying -- and failing -- to make it a little harder. Once I either succeed or give up, I'll be releasing that episode, probably in a week or so. At that point, I'll switch to finishing RoIC. I'm down to tweaking one fight in Map05 and then revising Map06. The latter should take at least a month, so probably the beta will happen sometime in October, months behind my intended schedule. But . . . it's coming, and fairly soon, in Doom terms. ;)

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