Questions about vanilla Heretic/Heretic mapping/Heretic in general

[Death Egg]

I am looking into the possibility of moving an IWAD project I've worked on for a long time from vanilla Doom 2 to vanilla Heretic. In regards to how this project will be in comparison to Heretic, think less what Freedoom is to Doom 2, and more what REKKR is to Ultimate Doom. While I have extensive knowledge of how to work within the limits of the vanilla Doom 2 engine, what I can take advantage of and what I should avoid, I have no experience working with vanilla Heretic, and barely any experience with Heretic in general really. I want to as many of the intricacies of the engine and if it would fit the project that I'm considering. I have a wide variety of questions about the differences between Doom 2 and Heretic as well as questions regarding Heretic specific things. I don't expect one person to answer all of this; in fact, I would rather I get answers

 

I should mention most testing will likely be done with Chocolate Heretic so I assume the project will work with the vanilla .exe, but if there's anything I should know please tell me.

 

1. I can see there's a Heretic equivalent for DEHACKED called the Heretic Hack Editor. I have questions specifically regarding just that:
   1. How easy is it to work with? DEHACKED has had program after program to improve the ease of working with it, and it's pretty fast to get it down with the latest WhackEd editions, whereas this .exe from 1995 seems to be the latest edition, so I imagine the GUI is dated.
   2. Is there a list of HHE code pointers?
   3. How many of Doom's code pointers are hidden in the code? Could I end up remaking Doom enemies and/or weapons with this?
   4. Does HHE work built-in with Chocolate Heretic in the same way DEHACKED works with Chocolate Doom by simply loading it? I can't say I'm looking forward to the prospect of having a vanilla Heretic .exe lying around that I have to patch and then load up in a command line with DOSbox every time I want to test something.
   5. I know that with Doom 2 it is possible to add new enemies by taking advantage of unused states, or repurposing other states. Does Heretic have the same thing going for it, where I could add multiple new enemies? Do they count in final monster count?
   6. Are there any other tricks or tips regarding HHE that I should know?
   • Unrelated but has anyone made anything cool with HHE that has gone under the radar?
   • Also unrelated but someone should make an in-depth Doomwiki page for this...
2. What level editing features will I not have access to that Doom 2 has? What huge benefits do I get by using Heretic? I know Heretic has at least one distinct addition with the ability to make sectors slippery like ice.
3. Since I am making an IWAD what considerations would I keep into account regarding how data is stored in comparison to Doom 2?
4. To the vanilla Heretic mappers, all five of you, I have some questions for you and how you map for Heretic. Other people who have modded Heretic for more advanced ports can probably answer too. Please keep in mind that, the IWAD being a whole new project with new textures, specific map detailing or architecture is not something I will need suggestions for for the most part.
   1. What suggestions would you give in regards to how Heretic plays in comparison to Doom 2? It has a slightly different type of gameplay that I would say is more strategic in some places, yet at the same time just as fast paced if not even more fast paced as Doom 2.
   2. Heretic admittedly has some problems with feature bloat I've noticed, with a ton of extra abilities that really are difficult to find useful ways to employ across 9 map episodes. I am considering evaluating the powerups and not using a few as a result. What do you use least/not at all?
   3. In comparison to Doom 2, what mapping conventions are not explored that Heretic could better take advantage of?
   4. What mapping conventions usually used in Doom 2 should I avoid?
   5. How do you utilize the enemies? Do you have tips on how to use them in combat? They have vastly different abilities at times from the monsters in Doom 2, for better or worse.
   6. More personally, why do you map for Heretic? What do you get out of it that makes you choose it for your project?
5. What topics would be useful for me from Doomworld or elsewhere regarding its gameplay? Any good topics with different deconstructions or analyzations I should read?

 

This is all that I can think of at the moment but if I have more questions I'll ask them.

[scifista42]

One important thing you should know about HHE is that it's not (yet) supported by any source port other than Chocolate Heretic. Compare with Doom's DEHACKED, which is supported by practically all source ports, and therefore you can be reasonably certain that your DEHACKED modifications will work regardless on which port the player will use to play your wad. On the other hand, your HHE modifications will not work if the player will try to play your wad in anything else than Chocolate Heretic or a patched vanilla Heretic executable.

[Not Jabba]

@Fonze knows a lot more about both HeHacked and the challenges of working with/modifying vanilla Heretic than I do, so I'm summoning him. But here's what I can offer at the moment:

 

-One major problem with moving to Heretic is that it has fewer resources than Doom -- even Ultimate Doom, and certainly much less than Doom 2. You'll have fewer monsters and decorations to replace, and much fewer textures. For this reason alone, I would stick with Doom 2 unless you have very good, very specific reasons for using Heretic's features.

-From what I've heard, HeHacked is much harder to work with than DeHacked is.

-The main features you'd get from Heretic are inventory, flight, looking up/down (irrelevant for players using more modern ports, but you are targeting Chocolate, so somewhat relevant), powered-up weapon behavior, floors that push the player, slippery floors, more realistic liquid flat behavior (players/monsters sink into water), and some behaviors specific to certain items and monsters that you can use creatively to your advantage (for instance, D'Sparil's teleportation abilities and the fact that you can push the explosive pods around). There may be a few more, but that's it off the top of my head. (EDIT: also, ghost monsters/players that can only be hit by certain weapons)

-Some enemies in Heretic have multiple attacks, which may be useful to you. However, enemy attack behavior is highly hard-coded, and I'm not sure how much you can change it, especially without Decorate. Other than that, Heretic enemies do not behave significantly differently from Doom ones, except for D'Sparil's special abilities.

-I know next to nothing about what kinds of edits are possible in DeHacked, much less the weaker HeHacked. However, if you could take advantage of the flight ability and turn it into something that's a bigger part of the gameplay, it might be a way to set your game apart from others made in the Doom engine.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Not Jabba

[Gez]

Heretic has voodoo doll "scripting" in vanilla.

 

Heretic has over/under in vanilla, meaning that you are able to walk over things. There's a vanilla Heretic level where to reach a secret you need to run along a series of barrels. But more interestingly, you can walk over explosive pods. You can push explosive pods in a pit, then if needed push more pods over the pods, and so on, until you are able to cross the pit. (Or you run out of pods.)

 

Pods can be pushed into teleporters, and they will teleport. Pods can, and will, telefrag anything on the other end. Push two pods in a teleporter, the second telefrags the first and both explode.

 

Pods can be carried around by some of the scrolling sector types. You can make something where you have a pod generator dropping pods on a conveyor belt leading to a teleporter.

 

Basically Heretic is perfect for clever puzzle maps and fiendish traps.

[Not Jabba]

1 hour ago, Death Egg said:

1. What topics would be useful for me from Doomworld or elsewhere regarding its gameplay? Any good topics with different deconstructions or analyzations I should read?

Try this one for some interesting discussion of the artifact set. The people who responded to this thread gave me some interesting thoughts on quirks of various items: 

 

[Phade102]

I strongly suggest you speak to YukiRaven about this. They have recently been doing a project in heretic and may be able to help you a bit more too!

 

Just for you =) @YukiRaven

[Fonze]

<3 Heretic and best of luck here!

 

Also, just got to read Gez's comment as I typed this; awesome post :D

 

On HHE, it is really important to note what scifista said, as well as the fact that HHE itself only works on one version of the heretic.exe executable. Off the top of my head Idr if it was registered or sotsr. 

 

Note in all of this that we have no option currently for LR Heretic with HHE modifications, though a smart programmer could apply the heretic+ changes to the HHE-modified executable to achieve both. Still, that would require the exe to be bundled with the wad.

 

@kb1, scifista, and Gez are my sources of HHE info, they can all talk more about that than I can.

 

That all said, switching from Doom 2 to Heretic is a bit iffy, Doom 1 to Heretic is an easier call to make. You still do have the revenant in the form of the nitrogolem, but you lose the PE and AV. The disciples kinda work as flying mancs, and their hitbox is about equivalent to a lost soul, but their attack is less fun to dodge and they have to be applied a bit differently. The arachs is fairly similar to the ophidian in terms of use, and the gargs are like lost souls. 

 

For gameplay, make extensive use of items, all items. Every item in Heretic has its place and something that makes it useful. 

Utilize ghost features, including physical vs magical dmg types. Heretic has a rare advantage to Doom in creating projectile-Hells through the use of undead warriors in the back, firing their axes through ghosted nitros/UWs.

Design maps with BPPT in mind; BPPT is something that should be utilized more often as a means of a top difficulty due to its lack of the -respawn parameter. You can make maps difficult without starving the player in smite-meister, but the straight-shooting, non-leading projectile monsters of Heretic can be extremely underwhelming at "normal" speed and when not in large groups/arenas. BPPT also multiplies ammo by 1.5, so keep that in mind. Some maps can be more difficult on smite-meister than BPPT when ammo starvation is a thing, but I'm of the mindset that while limiting helps nurture fun, starving kills it.

 

Heretic has a gameplay much more akin to the exploratory mindset of Doom 1 than the action-packed mindset of Doom 2; while you do certainly want to embrace that Doom 2 mindset to make tight, multi-pressuring situations, keep in mind what you are working with and also embrace that side of it, but be careful to avoid tedious encounters and monotony. Using those items will allow for more varried strategies to tackle various encounters, and item use and effectiveness is a good way to distinguish difficulties of certain set pieces. 

 

I can talk about heretic all day, but it's back to work for me for now :)

[Not Jabba]

Awesome post @Fonze, but one nitpick:

 

8 minutes ago, Fonze said:

 

Design maps with BPPT in mind; BPPT is something that should be utilized more often as a means of a top difficulty due to its lack of the -respawn parameter. You can make maps difficult without starving the player in smite-meister, but the straight-shooting, non-leading projectile monsters of Heretic can be extremely underwhelming at "normal" speed and when not in large groups/arenas. BPPT also multiplies ammo by 1.5, so keep that in mind. Some maps can be more difficult on smite-meister than BPPT when ammo starvation is a thing, but I'm of the mindset that while limiting helps nurture fun, starving kills it.

If the OP is creating a new Heretic-based iwad with new monsters, wouldn't it be better to just balance the game to be challenging on Smite-Meister (e.g., faster, deadlier projectiles) and have BPPT as an extra challenge mode?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Well, I originally started a map using Heretic's IWAD, then switched to Doom 2's IWAD, but it was always in UDMF format and targeted at GZDoom.  I haven't messed with vanilla or DeHacked or similar in probably 15 years or more.

 

The switch for me came about when I realized that Heretic's weapons just weren't as fun (to me, anyway) as Doom's, and that this had a direct impact on how monster encounters felt.  But, one thing I miss is making situations with overwhelming numbers of gargoyles.  It's crazy just how dangerous those things can be in groups.

 

Outside of that, I can't really add much more to what @Not Jabba, @Gez, and @Fonze already mentioned.

[fraggle]

50 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

One important thing you should know about HHE is that it's not (yet) supported by any source port other than Chocolate Heretic. Compare with Doom's DEHACKED, which is supported by practically all source ports, and therefore you can be reasonably certain that your DEHACKED modifications will work regardless on which port the player will use to play your wad. On the other hand, your HHE modifications will not work if the player will try to play your wad in anything else than Chocolate Heretic or a patched vanilla Heretic executable.

This is correct. From the source port developer's perspective: certain details about how HHE works mean that it is very awkward to support (the string replacement and action pointer mechanisms, in particular). I added HHE support to Chocolate Heretic a few years ago, but it required a lot of work to support it. There are also very few HHE mods in the idgames archive, so it's very hard to justify the investment - I don't blame other source port devs for not having bothered.

 

8 minutes ago, Fonze said:

On HHE, it is really important to note what scifista said, as well as the fact that HHE itself only works on one version of the heretic.exe executable. Off the top of my head Idr if it was registered or sotsr. 

It's slightly complicated, but the basic summary is that there are three versions of Heretic, and you can use HHE with any of them, but a patch developed for one version can't be applied to others. That's in contrast to Dehacked where patches are kind of "universal" and can be applied to any version in the 1.666 - 1.9 range at least. Part of that is because of Heretic itself - entries were added and removed from the frame table between versions.

 

Chocolate Heretic can load patches from any version, but you have to explicitly tell it which version the patch was made for (it assumes v1.0 if you don't say). It can sometimes guess and give you a hint.

 

If you're really determined to make use of HHE, one approach might be to develop your mod in HHE and then "port" it to DECORATE since it should be straightforward enough to recreate it.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

A while back I put up what stuff I know about HHE here:

http://ettingrinder.youfailit.net/heretic-hhe.html

 

I kind of gave up on documenting it further since it seems like it's kind of junk, but if someone wants to suggest anything more about it to me I might update again.  Too bad it never got polished to the same level as DeHackEd.  I think there was a source code to DeHackEd released that could maybe be adapted, but, I figure most people would look at that as a "no point" sort of project.

[Fonze]

4 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

Awesome post @Fonze, but one nitpick:

 

If the OP is creating a new Heretic-based iwad with new monsters, wouldn't it be better to just balance the game to be challenging on Smite-Meister (e.g., faster, deadlier projectiles) and have BPPT as an extra challenge mode?

 

I dont think you can define new attacks in HHE. Speeds, damage and sprites maybe, but you're still going to be stuck with the same basic missiles. For example, you can't make a nitrogolem throw eggs which turn the player into a chicken through HHE. Perhaps there could be some subtle, interesting changes made, but it'll still basically be Heretic. I could be wrong; would love to be tbh, heh.

 

BPPT could be seen as the extra challenge mode I suppose, though it trades a small amount ammo management for greater health management, but it is no more-so than UV is the extra challenge mode for Doom. The benefit here though is that most players won't play "the hardest difficulty" and complain about it being too hard later as they refuse to play on a level which will "not give them the full experience." A chance to combat the UV-or-bust mentality :) Also it prevents wtf encounters in BPPT, heh, but this helps with the overall balancing of the total package, at least imo. Especially given that wasd+mouse helps immensely with maneuverability and aim.

 

4 hours ago, fraggle said:

It's slightly complicated, but the basic summary is that there are three versions of Heretic, and you can use HHE with any of them, but a patch developed for one version can't be applied to others. That's in contrast to Dehacked where patches are kind of "universal" and can be applied to any version in the 1.666 - 1.9 range at least. Part of that is because of Heretic itself - entries were added and removed from the frame table between versions.

 

1 hour ago, ETTiNGRiNDER said:

A while back I put up what stuff I know about HHE here:

http://ettingrinder.youfailit.net/heretic-hhe.html

 

I kind of gave up on documenting it further since it seems like it's kind of junk, but if someone wants to suggest anything more about it to me I might update again.  Too bad it never got polished to the same level as DeHackEd.  I think there was a source code to DeHackEd released that could maybe be adapted, but, I figure most people would look at that as a "no point" sort of project.

 

Ah, interesting stuff; thanks for the info! I ran into the problem of the tables being improperly labeled; I didn't realize I was supposed to change the config file's info. I will definitely have to read that more in-depth later on.

 

 

[Death Egg]

Thank you to everyone for your replies! There's a lot of things to respond to so I'll try my best to comment on the slew of information I've been given.

 

//////////////////////////////////

 

7 hours ago, scifista42 said:

One important thing you should know about HHE is that it's not (yet) supported by any source port other than Chocolate Heretic. Compare with Doom's DEHACKED, which is supported by practically all source ports, and therefore you can be reasonably certain that your DEHACKED modifications will work regardless on which port the player will use to play your wad. On the other hand, your HHE modifications will not work if the player will try to play your wad in anything else than Chocolate Heretic or a patched vanilla Heretic executable.

This surprisingly is not something I was considering. It is definitely something I'll have difficulty trying to work around. I may end up having to just use default enemy and weapon behaviors then, if I end up going this route, though I'll still need something to replace story and other text no matter what way I slice it.

 

7 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

-One major problem with moving to Heretic is that it has fewer resources than Doom -- even Ultimate Doom, and certainly much less than Doom 2. You'll have fewer monsters and decorations to replace, and much fewer textures. For this reason alone, I would stick with Doom 2 unless you have very good, very specific reasons for using Heretic's features.

Decorations and textures aren't an issue for me, but the monsters might prove difficult if I can't get HHE working in my favor. That depends on how much I'll even need to change, though.

Quote

-I know next to nothing about what kinds of edits are possible in DeHacked, much less the weaker HeHacked. However, if you could take advantage of the flight ability and turn it into something that's a bigger part of the gameplay, it might be a way to set your game apart from others made in the Doom engine.

This is a good idea. I can imagine tall maps and settings this could work in, possibly even scaling a vertical level with flight, though if the player isn't careful about clearing flying enemies they'll run out of energy and crash before making it high enough. Of course they could make it to the top without it too.

 

Thanks for the thread link about artifacts too, by the way!

 

7 hours ago, Gez said:

(...)

 

Basically Heretic is perfect for clever puzzle maps and fiendish traps.

Hm. There are a lot of good additions here, but my maps would need a lot of tune-up to better suit this theme. I don't have much of a puzzle aspect to them, and focus solely on run-and-gun.

7 hours ago, Fonze said:

On HHE, it is really important to note what scifista said, as well as the fact that HHE itself only works on one version of the heretic.exe executable. Off the top of my head Idr if it was registered or sotsr. 

I won't need the extra two episodes so hopefully it's the former.

 

Quote

That all said, switching from Doom 2 to Heretic is a bit iffy, Doom 1 to Heretic is an easier call to make. You still do have the revenant in the form of the nitrogolem, but you lose the PE and AV. The disciples kinda work as flying mancs, and their hitbox is about equivalent to a lost soul, but their attack is less fun to dodge and they have to be applied a bit differently. The arachs is fairly similar to the ophidian in terms of use, and the gargs are like lost souls. 

Lucky me I don't use PE's very often, and I don't think I had yet to even place any AV's. The lack of Manc may be difficult but I kind of like having more enemies with lower health, seems like it might suit a more frantic style gameplay rather than taking down behemoths with crazy amounts of health.

Quote

For gameplay, make extensive use of items, all items. Every item in Heretic has its place and something that makes it useful. 

Utilize ghost features, including physical vs magical dmg types. Heretic has a rare advantage to Doom in creating projectile-Hells through the use of undead warriors in the back, firing their axes through ghosted nitros/UWs.

Interesting that different attacks have different effects depending on the monster and weapon class. Any info lying around that's more detailed on that?

Quote

Design maps with BPPT in mind; BPPT is something that should be utilized more often as a means of a top difficulty due to its lack of the -respawn parameter. You can make maps difficult without starving the player in smite-meister, but the straight-shooting, non-leading projectile monsters of Heretic can be extremely underwhelming at "normal" speed and when not in large groups/arenas. BPPT also multiplies ammo by 1.5, so keep that in mind. Some maps can be more difficult on smite-meister than BPPT when ammo starvation is a thing, but I'm of the mindset that while limiting helps nurture fun, starving kills it.

It's nice to know the last difficulty isn't a joke thrown in as a rebuttal to a magazine. :p

Quote

Heretic has a gameplay much more akin to the exploratory mindset of Doom 1 than the action-packed mindset of Doom 2; while you do certainly want to embrace that Doom 2 mindset to make tight, multi-pressuring situations, keep in mind what you are working with and also embrace that side of it, but be careful to avoid tedious encounters and monotony.

Lucky for me I prefer the level design of Doom 1 over Doom 2, though I usually utilize more Doom 2-esque monster encounters.

 

6 hours ago, YukiRaven said:

The switch for me came about when I realized that Heretic's weapons just weren't as fun (to me, anyway) as Doom's, and that this had a direct impact on how monster encounters felt.

Would you say it's just the weapon visual and sound design that makes them feel weaker/less fun, or just all around not right? I do agree that there's something off about them compared to Doom or even Hexen.

 

6 hours ago, fraggle said:

If you're really determined to make use of HHE, one approach might be to develop your mod in HHE and then "port" it to DECORATE since it should be straightforward enough to recreate it.

That was my idea I was having. I'd likely support a bunch of the notable source ports that support Heretic through their own scripting languages, likely going GZDoom, then 3DGE, Eternity when support is finished, and Doomsday.

 

//////////////////////////////////

 

Overall, I'm way more on the fence about this approach than when I first made the topic. For the type of project that I'm developing, Heretic's strengths in gameplay over Doom's are limited when compared to the downsides and lack of vanilla mod vs advanced mod source port parity. I'm happy for all of the responses, but unless anybody has information that could change my mind, there's a good chance I'll just end up keeping it a Doom 2 mod, and just use a more advanced port/set of ports. Maybe I'll take advantage of newer cross-port features, like the upcoming UMAPINFO, or maybe I'll stick with Eternity and help give it more reasons for players to give it a chance. Eitehr way, thanks for the help!

 

[Not Jabba]

21 minutes ago, Death Egg said:

(1) I can imagine tall maps and settings this could work in, possibly even scaling a vertical level with flight, though if the player isn't careful about clearing flying enemies they'll run out of energy and crash before making it high enough. Of course they could make it to the top without it too.

 

(2) Interesting that different attacks have different effects depending on the monster and weapon class. Any info lying around that's more detailed on that?

 

(3) Would you say it's just the weapon visual and sound design that makes them feel weaker/less fun, or just all around not right? I do agree that there's something off about them compared to Doom or even Hexen.

 

(4) Overall, I'm way more on the fence about this approach than when I first made the topic. For the type of project that I'm developing, Heretic's strengths in gameplay over Doom's are limited when compared to the downsides and lack of vanilla mod vs advanced mod source port parity. I'm happy for all of the responses, but unless anybody has information that could change my mind, there's a good chance I'll just end up keeping it a Doom 2 mod, and just use a more advanced port/set of ports. Maybe I'll take advantage of newer cross-port features, like the upcoming UMAPINFO, or maybe I'll stick with Eternity and help give it more reasons for players to give it a chance. Eitehr way, thanks for the help!

 

(1) Assuming you can make the change in HeHacked, you may want to extend the length of the flying time for the artifact (Wings of Wrath), or even make its effects permanent (the player can control whether they're flying or walking while it's in effect), like the version of the Wings that appears in Hexen. This obviously creates its own set of unique mapping challenges, but if you used flying as a required part of a given level's progression, then you would basically have to give the player permanent flight or risk making the level very breakable.

 

(2) This refers to the ghost monsters, right? Here's the information on what hits ghosts and what doesn't: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Ghosts_(Heretic)

 

(3) Heretic's weapons are generally weaker than Doom's, especially relative to the health of the monsters (since nearly all Heretic monsters have health similar to a Cacodemon). This is something I've worked on fixing, and I'm happy to compare notes if you end up trying to rebalance the Heretic weapon set -- I found they mostly just needed minor tweaks to damage output.

 

(4) If you end up removing the vanilla limitations, you can use Decorate, and I hasten to point out that Decorate/ZDoom compatibility allows you to add any and all Heretic and Hexen features into a Doom-based iwad. Since you're looking to make your own iwad with your own monsters, etc., a switch to ZDoom would mean you don't have to worry about any of the limitations of whatever stock iwad you're starting with.

[Remilia Scarlet]

44 minutes ago, Death Egg said:

Would you say it's just the weapon visual and sound design that makes them feel weaker/less fun, or just all around not right? I do agree that there's something off about them compared to Doom or even Hexen.

I love how they look and sound, but they feel off just slightly, though I think it has more to do with the enemies than the weapons themselves.  Sometimes I don't feel like I'm shredding through them enough, while other times they feel so weak (both in health and attack) that they aren't even a threat.  Truth be told, I'm not sure what I'd change to make it better, because I think some of it is just weak sound design and not enough gore.  But some of it is definitely the mechanics.

 

Also, it feels like there should be a larger variety of enemies in how they attack, look, and behave.  The lack of hitscanners makes this especially glaring.

 

Going back to weapons though, I will say this: Why in the hell does that stupid Firemace even exist?  While it does pretty good damage, it feels so incredibly underwhelming given its weapon slot.  The powered up version is more a nuisance than a buff.  It's like you find a BFG, but all it does is shoot rocks.

[Gez]

Heretic weapons are more uniform in their power range, so to speak, than Doom's. By that I mean that a low-end weapon like the gold wand is better than its equivalent the pistol, while a high-end weapon like the skull staff is weaker than its equivalent the plasma rifle. The firemace shouldn't at all be considered to be the equivalent of the BFG; it's some sort of weird bonus weapon that the manual doesn't even speak about.

[kb1]

I am a bit ashamed that I got half-way through a Heretic hack project, and just never completed it. It was designed to allow you to tweak things not normally available to tweak, like which missile was fired during a specific attack, or the maximum angle the tracer missiles could turn. This involved some .EXE disassembly. It was meant to be used in conjunction with HHE, and it allowed you to enable/disable the limit-removing Plus hacks.

 

One nice thing was that it had the ability to use heuristics to find the thing table and the frame table. I wanted to get it to the point where you could edit any idTech1 DOS engine, either with heuristics, or, better yet, by detecting the engine. But, like a lot of things, it's sitting there halfway done :(

 

Yes, Heretic needs some serious love.

[Death Egg]

@kb1 You should release what's done of it if you don't plan to turn to it,  I'd be very interested in seeing that. 

[kb1]

On 7/29/2017 at 2:45 AM, Death Egg said:

@kb1 You should release what's done of it if you don't plan to turn to it,  I'd be very interested in seeing that. 

I can (and will), but I really owe it to someone to get it just a bit more functional. It's like all my projects, I get them to where I can "see the light at the end of the tunnel", then move on to something else. Pity.

 

I am ramping up to where I'll be bulk-releasing a bunch of stuff 0 just have to get through this nightmare RL paying project first. If I forget, remind me in a few weeks, ok?