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MrGlide

Monster Categorization.

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In your opinion, how would you categorize The Doom 2 enemies? Any way you would like! I really want to have a conversation about this. For Me, I see it as 5 groups, in kind of difficulty order.

 

Threat Level 1 Low end- Trooper, Seargent, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre.

Threat Level 2 Mid teir - Caco, Hell Knight, Chaingunner.

Threat Level 3 High Tier - Revinent, Mancubus, Aracnotron.

Threat Level 4 Mini Boss - Archvile, Baron of Hell, Pain Elemental.

Threat Level 5 Boss - CyberDemon, Spider Mastermind.

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I think I'd place them in mostly similar categories.  I'll include Doom 64 monsters here, too.

 

Low: Former Human, Former Sergent, Imp/Nightmare Imp

Low-Mid: Demon/Spectre, Lost Soul, Chaingunner when he's easy to get to

Mid: Cacodemon, Hell Knight, Pain Elemental, Mancubus, small groups of Revenants, Arachnotron, Lost Souls in large groups and cramped spaces, Chaingunner that's hard to get to or ambushes you

Mid-High: Baron of Hell, Arch-Vile, large groups of Revenants

Boss: Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind, Mother Demon

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1. Those with 20-70 HP.

2. Those with 100-150 HP.

3. Those with 300-500 HP.

4. Those with 600-1000 HP.

5. Those with 3000-4000 HP.

 

Note that I don't call this a categorization "by difficulty", just by how much damage they absorb before dying.

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To be honest, it's difficult to categorize because every map has a different style. It's just a general idea for me, or I'm just for fun, or not fun, or my stupidity...

 

Threat:

1 - Zombieman, Nazis, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre

2 - Shotgunner, Cacodemon, Hell Knight

3 - Chaingunner, Mancubus, Aracnotron, Baron of Hell, Pain Elemental

4 - Revenant, Arch-vile

5 - Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind

 

If there's map which forces you to use Rocket Launcher all the time, Pinky/Spectre could on Threat 4. If a map only gives you Shotgun and there are a bunch of Pain Elementals, they could be on Threat 4. I put Revenant up there is that 2 bad rolls can kill you even you have 100 health with Armor...

 

Weapon:

1 - Pinky/Spectre, Imp, Hell Knight

2 - Wait? Who uses this...

3 - Hitscanners, Imp, Lost Soul (Snipe)

9 - Everything...

4 - Hitscanners, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre (Snipe / Minor Control)

5 - Everything except Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind (Crowd Control)

6 - Everything (Burst through / stunlock enemies)

7 - Well...

 

Also, weapon wise is also not a good way to do because many factors should be considered. I don't like rocket duels with Cyberdemon, but sometimes you have to... just like this.

 

Material:

Human Meat: Hitscanners

Crap: Imp, Mancubus

Pork Chop: Pinky/Spectre (Pork Chop you can't see)

XoXatos: Cacodemon, Pain Elemental

Ribs: Revenant

Ethereal: Lost Soul

Crispy Chips: Arch-vile

 

Cuteness:

Cute: Cacodemon

Not Cute: Everything else

 

Color:

Purple: Nothing! That's why we need more Stardate 20X6/20X7!!

 

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Cannon fodder tier : Imps, specters and pinkies.

Low threat : Zombiemen.

Low but less low threat : Cacos, Lost souls, Hell knights, shotgunners.

Medium threat : Arachnotrons, Pain elementals and mancubi.

High Threat : Arch-vile above Revenants.

Special Tier : Chaingunners (High threat or medium depending on placement), Spider Mastermind (Either easy as hell or OH GOD WHY) and Barons (Hell knight tier unless ammo starvation\Tight corridor slap room)

Boss Tier : Cyberdemon and Icon of Sin.

 

Ranked by how much they tend to ruin my game and how many of them were needed to do it :p.

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I can categorize each one of them in order of how much I'm prone to be killed by, from less to more in the same category, whether it's by a single one or equal/mixed groups.

 

Never: Commander Keen, SS Nazi

Rarely ever: Zombieman, Demon, Lost Soul, Pain Elemental, Hell Knight

Once in a while: Imp, Cacodemon, Shotgunner

Sometimes: Chaingunner, Spectre, Baron of Hell

More often: Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind

Even more often: Archvile, Arachnotron, Mancubus

 

And the winner is: Revenant

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I give my categories colorful names.

 

Zeddites: All zombie gunmen, including chaingunners.

Molded From Basic Elements: Imps and pinkies.

Born By Shackles: Hell barons and whoever was the other dude with horns.

Aerial Weaponery: Cacos and Pain Elementals.

Live Ammo: Lost Souls.

Agitated Artillery: Revenants and Cybies.

Tanks: Mancubi and SMMs.

"Support": Archviles.

 

Dunno if I forgot someone :P

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Hmm, i usually categorize them by their castes with additional info in their mechanics (attack types, health and damage):

Zombies: Obviously, Zombieman, Shotgunner and Chaingunner goes here, pretty much any other modded possessed people.

Hell Soldiers: The weakest among the Hell army, Imps, Pinkies and Lost Souls.

Hell Gladiators: Those who can withstand considerable damage and also have potential damage with few mechanics in their attacks, Cacodemons, Mancubi, Revenants and Arachnotrons in case.
Hell Nobles: Basically a meat shield mostly but great melee and great proj. damage, Baron of Hell and Hellknights.
Arcanists: The ones which really seems to cast heavy spells or lives with magic in their bodies, Archviles and Pain Elementals.
Majors: Oppresive damage, fuckton of health and at least 2 times taller than the player, Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind.
General: Any modded bitch which have a Health Bar shown in HUD with autistic health and damage, JRPG mechanics also included if they have it.

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When I saw the title I immediately thought of this post by Linguica, which apparently you have read as well. 

 

This is how I'd characterize monsters when I work on slaughtermaps. I invented the category names for this post.

 

Big bads: Archviles, cyberdemons.

Complex attackers: Revenants, mancubuses, arachnotrons.

Straight-line firers: Hell knights, barons, cacodemons, imps.

Attention whores: Chaingunners, shotgunners, lost souls, pain elementals.

Miscellaneous fodder: Former human troopers, pinkies.

Spider mastermind: Spider mastermind.

 

Big bads tend to be more dangerous than the rest, and even a single vile or cyber will change or define the character of a fight a lot more than a single member of any other species. Cybers are often latent threats more than actual threats, particularly when there is enough space, but the fact is that a single slip-up can be costly in a way that it wouldn't against a HK, which changes the character of combat with them significantly. 

 

Complex attackers are the projectile monsters that are most resistant to autopilot dodging. Removing revenants and mancs from the bestiary would neuter gameplay a lot. Associated with them are the game's most interesting dodging patterns. The arachnotron is technically a straight-line firer whose attack isn't so hard to avoid in most circumstances, but based on its unconventional properties (big hitbox, continuous fire), and the fact that a number of turreted trons at roughly the same z-location as the player can overlap in such a way to create an oppressive stream, I'm slotting it here.

 

Straight-line firers have simple attacks and usually need to be fought en masse to prove much of a threat. A lot of the time, they get their threat from invading the player's space. Their simple projectiles aren't much of a threat on their own, generally, but when the player's movement space is restricted they can be more interesting, and the hierarchy of projectile types (rev/manc on one end, these on the other) makes 'attention prioritization' a thing in mixed-species projectile-heavy fights, which I enjoy. Attention whores are rude (shotgunners, chaingunners) or loud-mouthed (lost souls, pain elementals) nuisances that get their strategic properties from the annoyances they pose. Individual lost souls can typically be ignored (which would slot them closer to miscellaneous fodder), but they are flying heads on fire that yell at you while charging -- definite attention whores. The miscellaneous fodder category houses the leftovers that aren't dangerous enough to be annoying. Troopers are not exceptionally useful, but pinkies eat up quite a lot of space and so can play interesting roles sometimes.

 

Last but not least, the spider mastermind. Too weak to be a big bad, not a projectile monster, too helpful to be an attention whore, so taxonomically, it's an oddball. Amusingly, it's closest to the miscellaneous fodder category than anything, especially when the player is armed with a BFG.

 

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34 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

Too weak to be a big bad

It's ironic to me how one of these queens cannot represent more than just an obstacle sometimes, but for a cyber can be a lethal opponent. 

 

You didn't mention spectres, I would place them in your "attention whores" category, for me it's not the same to see, for example, pinkies and a cyber, than spectres and a cyber. Sure they eat up space, but the moment I'm in a scenario featuring usage of rockets (mine or from cybers), I'm inclined to clear spectres as soon as possible by using anything but the RL, if rockets were the most provided. Of course this is a very specific example, in general spectres and pinkies are equal threats, I tend to feel more pressured when the first ones are there, and they'd draw my attention more than pinkies. 

 

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1. Lower Low- Former Human, Shotgunner, Imp, Pinky, Spectre (if in light), Lost Soul
2. Higher Low- Chaingunner, Spectre (if in a dark map), Hell Knight, Cacodemon, SS (thanks BFG Iwads -_-)

3. Lower High- Revenant, Baron of Hell, Chaingunner, Aracnotron, Pain Elemental, Mancubus

4. Higher High- Cyberdemon, Icon of Sin, Spider Mastermind, Archvile

This applies generally to solitary monster encounters, if there is a hoard they may skip a tier.

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Potentially annoying: Pinkies/spectres, Souls, low tier hitscans.

 

Mostly dangerous in numbers or tight places: Imps, HKs

 

Worthy of attention: Viles, Revenants, Mancubi, trons, PEs

 

Best frienemy 4 eva: Cyberdemon

 

Don't die in that spot, pretty plea-aaawwww: Cacodemon

 

Seldomly fun to put in maps because size: SMM

 

Rarely used well: Baron of hell

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The cool thing about Doom is that monsters can fill well multiple scaling levels, going from 1 which is low density/hp scenary to 4 which is for "late game" scenaries:

 

Zombieman: 1

Shotgun guy: 1-2

Imp: 1

Demon: 1-2

Lost Soul: 1-2

Chaingunner: 1-3

Hell knight, Caco: 2

Revenant: 1-4

Mancubus: 2-3

Arach: 2-3

Archville: 3-4

Baron: 3

Cybedemon, Spider: 4

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This is how I've been using for vanilla monsters:

 

Usually it takes a single point blank SSG shot to kill = Low tier

Usually it takes two or three point blank SSG shots to kill = Mid tier

Usually it takes four or more point blank SSG shots to kill = High tier

Immune to rocket blast damage = Boss

 

Point blank SSG shot can be replaced to direct hit of rocket launcher.

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Get out of my way: zombieman, pinkies (as well as spectres), imps and lost souls

Ok, what do you want?: shotgunners, cacos, hell knight, and SS Nazi

I'd be careful: chaingunners, revenants, pain elementals, arachnotron, barons and the Mastermind

WATCHOUT, WATCHOUT, WATCHOUT....!!!: archvile and cyberdemon

 

 

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  • Too easy to dodge: imps, hell knights, barons, cacodemons
  • Get outta here -- you're ruining the WAD: SS and pain elementals, maybe lost souls too
  • Hitscanners (grumble, snarl): hitscanners
  • Interesting mid-tiers: mancubi, arachnotrons, revenants
  • BFG playmates: cybers, archies, SMMs

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Guest

Cannon fodder: zombiemen, shotgun guys, imps, pinkies, lost souls

 

Pain in the ass: chaingunners, arch-viles, revenants, pain elementals 

 

 

Haven't really thought about the rest.

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  • Fun to punch: pinkies, spectres, lost souls, pain elementals, imps, gunners
  • Really fun to punch: hell knights, barons, revenants
  • Really, really fun to punch: mancubi, arch-viles
  • Really, really, really fun to punch: arachnotrons, cyberdemons
  • Not fun to punch: SMMs

:-P

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Dangerous : imp , zombies , baron of hell , cacodemon , lost soul , cyberdemon , SM , mancubus , archvile , revenant , pain elemental , Arachnotron , hell knight , demons , spectres , Icon of sin , Nazis

 

Not dangerous : Commander Keen

Edited by Roofi

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Arachnotron

Archvile 

Baron of hell

Cacodemon

Commander Keen

Cyberdemon

Demon

Former human 

Former sargeant 

Heavy weapon dude

Hell knight 

Icon of sin 

Imp

Lost soul

Mancubus

Our Hero

Pain elemental

Revenant

Spectres

Spider Mastermind

Wolfenstein SS

 

 

 

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Under the assumption -fast is on.

 

1. Meh

Imp, Lost Soul, Arch-Vile (unless it is well placed), Hell Knight

 

2. Slight threat

Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Cacodemon, Pain Elemental, Arachnotron, Baron of Hell (not threatening but is one of the few monsters that takes a lot of ammo to kill)

 

3. Moderate threat

Heavy Weapon Dude, Mancubus, Spider Mastermind, Demon/Spectre

 

4. High threat

Revenant, Cyberdemon

 

 

When -fast is NOT on.

 

1. Meh

Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Imp, Demon, Spectre, Lost Soul, Cacodemon, Pain Elemental, Hell Knight, Mancubus, Arachnotron

 

2. Slight threat

Heavy Weapon Dude, Arch-Vile, Spider Mastermind, Cyberdemon, Revenant, Baron of Hell

 

3. Moderate threat

<EMPTY>

 

4. High threat

<EMPTY>

 

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Things that need to die:
Arachnotron, Archvile, Baron of hell, Cacodemon, Cyberdemon, Demon, Former human, Former sargeant, Heavy weapon dude, Hell knight, Icon of sin, Imp, Lost soul, Mancubus, Pain elemental, Revenant, Spectres, Spider Mastermind, Wolfenstein SS

Things that need to not die:
Me

Things I'm not sure why they have to die but I need to exit the level so okay:
Commander Keen

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