MrGlide Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) In your opinion, how would you categorize The Doom 2 enemies? Any way you would like! I really want to have a conversation about this. For Me, I see it as 5 groups, in kind of difficulty order. Threat Level 1 Low end- Trooper, Seargent, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre. Threat Level 2 Mid teir - Caco, Hell Knight, Chaingunner. Threat Level 3 High Tier - Revinent, Mancubus, Aracnotron. Threat Level 4 Mini Boss - Archvile, Baron of Hell, Pain Elemental. Threat Level 5 Boss - CyberDemon, Spider Mastermind. 2 Share this post Link to post
Remilia Scarlet Posted July 30, 2017 I think I'd place them in mostly similar categories. I'll include Doom 64 monsters here, too. Low: Former Human, Former Sergent, Imp/Nightmare Imp Low-Mid: Demon/Spectre, Lost Soul, Chaingunner when he's easy to get to Mid: Cacodemon, Hell Knight, Pain Elemental, Mancubus, small groups of Revenants, Arachnotron, Lost Souls in large groups and cramped spaces, Chaingunner that's hard to get to or ambushes you Mid-High: Baron of Hell, Arch-Vile, large groups of Revenants Boss: Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind, Mother Demon 2 Share this post Link to post
scifista42 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 1. Those with 20-70 HP. 2. Those with 100-150 HP. 3. Those with 300-500 HP. 4. Those with 600-1000 HP. 5. Those with 3000-4000 HP. Note that I don't call this a categorization "by difficulty", just by how much damage they absorb before dying. 5 Share this post Link to post
GarrettChan Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) To be honest, it's difficult to categorize because every map has a different style. It's just a general idea for me, or I'm just for fun, or not fun, or my stupidity... Threat: 1 - Zombieman, Nazis, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre 2 - Shotgunner, Cacodemon, Hell Knight 3 - Chaingunner, Mancubus, Aracnotron, Baron of Hell, Pain Elemental 4 - Revenant, Arch-vile 5 - Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind If there's map which forces you to use Rocket Launcher all the time, Pinky/Spectre could on Threat 4. If a map only gives you Shotgun and there are a bunch of Pain Elementals, they could be on Threat 4. I put Revenant up there is that 2 bad rolls can kill you even you have 100 health with Armor... Weapon: 1 - Pinky/Spectre, Imp, Hell Knight 2 - Wait? Who uses this... 3 - Hitscanners, Imp, Lost Soul (Snipe) 9 - Everything... 4 - Hitscanners, Imp, Lost Soul, Pinky/Spectre (Snipe / Minor Control) 5 - Everything except Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind (Crowd Control) 6 - Everything (Burst through / stunlock enemies) 7 - Well... Also, weapon wise is also not a good way to do because many factors should be considered. I don't like rocket duels with Cyberdemon, but sometimes you have to... just like this. Material: Human Meat: Hitscanners Crap: Imp, Mancubus Pork Chop: Pinky/Spectre (Pork Chop you can't see) XoXatos: Cacodemon, Pain Elemental Ribs: Revenant Ethereal: Lost Soul Crispy Chips: Arch-vile Cuteness: Cute: Cacodemon Not Cute: Everything else Color: Purple: Nothing! That's why we need more Stardate 20X6/20X7!! 6 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted July 30, 2017 Cannon fodder tier : Imps, specters and pinkies. Low threat : Zombiemen. Low but less low threat : Cacos, Lost souls, Hell knights, shotgunners. Medium threat : Arachnotrons, Pain elementals and mancubi. High Threat : Arch-vile above Revenants. Special Tier : Chaingunners (High threat or medium depending on placement), Spider Mastermind (Either easy as hell or OH GOD WHY) and Barons (Hell knight tier unless ammo starvation\Tight corridor slap room) Boss Tier : Cyberdemon and Icon of Sin. Ranked by how much they tend to ruin my game and how many of them were needed to do it :p. 0 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted July 30, 2017 I can categorize each one of them in order of how much I'm prone to be killed by, from less to more in the same category, whether it's by a single one or equal/mixed groups. Never: Commander Keen, SS Nazi Rarely ever: Zombieman, Demon, Lost Soul, Pain Elemental, Hell Knight Once in a while: Imp, Cacodemon, Shotgunner Sometimes: Chaingunner, Spectre, Baron of Hell More often: Cyberdemon, Spider Mastermind Even more often: Archvile, Arachnotron, Mancubus And the winner is: Revenant 1 Share this post Link to post
Battle_Korbi Posted July 30, 2017 I give my categories colorful names. Zeddites: All zombie gunmen, including chaingunners. Molded From Basic Elements: Imps and pinkies. Born By Shackles: Hell barons and whoever was the other dude with horns. Aerial Weaponery: Cacos and Pain Elementals. Live Ammo: Lost Souls. Agitated Artillery: Revenants and Cybies. Tanks: Mancubi and SMMs. "Support": Archviles. Dunno if I forgot someone :P 1 Share this post Link to post
Zanieon Posted July 30, 2017 Hmm, i usually categorize them by their castes with additional info in their mechanics (attack types, health and damage):Zombies: Obviously, Zombieman, Shotgunner and Chaingunner goes here, pretty much any other modded possessed people. Hell Soldiers: The weakest among the Hell army, Imps, Pinkies and Lost Souls. Hell Gladiators: Those who can withstand considerable damage and also have potential damage with few mechanics in their attacks, Cacodemons, Mancubi, Revenants and Arachnotrons in case.Hell Nobles: Basically a meat shield mostly but great melee and great proj. damage, Baron of Hell and Hellknights.Arcanists: The ones which really seems to cast heavy spells or lives with magic in their bodies, Archviles and Pain Elementals.Majors: Oppresive damage, fuckton of health and at least 2 times taller than the player, Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind.General: Any modded bitch which have a Health Bar shown in HUD with autistic health and damage, JRPG mechanics also included if they have it. 0 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) When I saw the title I immediately thought of this post by Linguica, which apparently you have read as well. This is how I'd characterize monsters when I work on slaughtermaps. I invented the category names for this post. Big bads: Archviles, cyberdemons. Complex attackers: Revenants, mancubuses, arachnotrons. Straight-line firers: Hell knights, barons, cacodemons, imps. Attention whores: Chaingunners, shotgunners, lost souls, pain elementals. Miscellaneous fodder: Former human troopers, pinkies. Spider mastermind: Spider mastermind. Big bads tend to be more dangerous than the rest, and even a single vile or cyber will change or define the character of a fight a lot more than a single member of any other species. Cybers are often latent threats more than actual threats, particularly when there is enough space, but the fact is that a single slip-up can be costly in a way that it wouldn't against a HK, which changes the character of combat with them significantly. Complex attackers are the projectile monsters that are most resistant to autopilot dodging. Removing revenants and mancs from the bestiary would neuter gameplay a lot. Associated with them are the game's most interesting dodging patterns. The arachnotron is technically a straight-line firer whose attack isn't so hard to avoid in most circumstances, but based on its unconventional properties (big hitbox, continuous fire), and the fact that a number of turreted trons at roughly the same z-location as the player can overlap in such a way to create an oppressive stream, I'm slotting it here. Straight-line firers have simple attacks and usually need to be fought en masse to prove much of a threat. A lot of the time, they get their threat from invading the player's space. Their simple projectiles aren't much of a threat on their own, generally, but when the player's movement space is restricted they can be more interesting, and the hierarchy of projectile types (rev/manc on one end, these on the other) makes 'attention prioritization' a thing in mixed-species projectile-heavy fights, which I enjoy. Attention whores are rude (shotgunners, chaingunners) or loud-mouthed (lost souls, pain elementals) nuisances that get their strategic properties from the annoyances they pose. Individual lost souls can typically be ignored (which would slot them closer to miscellaneous fodder), but they are flying heads on fire that yell at you while charging -- definite attention whores. The miscellaneous fodder category houses the leftovers that aren't dangerous enough to be annoying. Troopers are not exceptionally useful, but pinkies eat up quite a lot of space and so can play interesting roles sometimes. Last but not least, the spider mastermind. Too weak to be a big bad, not a projectile monster, too helpful to be an attention whore, so taxonomically, it's an oddball. Amusingly, it's closest to the miscellaneous fodder category than anything, especially when the player is armed with a BFG. 5 Share this post Link to post
galileo31dos01 Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, rdwpa said: Too weak to be a big bad It's ironic to me how one of these queens cannot represent more than just an obstacle sometimes, but for a cyber can be a lethal opponent. You didn't mention spectres, I would place them in your "attention whores" category, for me it's not the same to see, for example, pinkies and a cyber, than spectres and a cyber. Sure they eat up space, but the moment I'm in a scenario featuring usage of rockets (mine or from cybers), I'm inclined to clear spectres as soon as possible by using anything but the RL, if rockets were the most provided. Of course this is a very specific example, in general spectres and pinkies are equal threats, I tend to feel more pressured when the first ones are there, and they'd draw my attention more than pinkies. 1 Share this post Link to post
Major Arlene Posted July 30, 2017 1. Lower Low- Former Human, Shotgunner, Imp, Pinky, Spectre (if in light), Lost Soul 2. Higher Low- Chaingunner, Spectre (if in a dark map), Hell Knight, Cacodemon, SS (thanks BFG Iwads -_-) 3. Lower High- Revenant, Baron of Hell, Chaingunner, Aracnotron, Pain Elemental, Mancubus 4. Higher High- Cyberdemon, Icon of Sin, Spider Mastermind, Archvile This applies generally to solitary monster encounters, if there is a hoard they may skip a tier. 0 Share this post Link to post
Nine Inch Heels Posted July 31, 2017 Potentially annoying: Pinkies/spectres, Souls, low tier hitscans. Mostly dangerous in numbers or tight places: Imps, HKs Worthy of attention: Viles, Revenants, Mancubi, trons, PEs Best frienemy 4 eva: Cyberdemon Don't die in that spot, pretty plea-aaawwww: Cacodemon Seldomly fun to put in maps because size: SMM Rarely used well: Baron of hell 3 Share this post Link to post
Deadwing Posted July 31, 2017 The cool thing about Doom is that monsters can fill well multiple scaling levels, going from 1 which is low density/hp scenary to 4 which is for "late game" scenaries: Zombieman: 1 Shotgun guy: 1-2 Imp: 1 Demon: 1-2 Lost Soul: 1-2 Chaingunner: 1-3 Hell knight, Caco: 2 Revenant: 1-4 Mancubus: 2-3 Arach: 2-3 Archville: 3-4 Baron: 3 Cybedemon, Spider: 4 1 Share this post Link to post
antares031 Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) This is how I've been using for vanilla monsters: Usually it takes a single point blank SSG shot to kill = Low tier Usually it takes two or three point blank SSG shots to kill = Mid tier Usually it takes four or more point blank SSG shots to kill = High tier Immune to rocket blast damage = Boss Point blank SSG shot can be replaced to direct hit of rocket launcher. 0 Share this post Link to post
leodoom85 Posted July 31, 2017 Get out of my way: zombieman, pinkies (as well as spectres), imps and lost souls Ok, what do you want?: shotgunners, cacos, hell knight, and SS Nazi I'd be careful: chaingunners, revenants, pain elementals, arachnotron, barons and the Mastermind WATCHOUT, WATCHOUT, WATCHOUT....!!!: archvile and cyberdemon 0 Share this post Link to post
42PercentHealth Posted July 31, 2017 Too easy to dodge: imps, hell knights, barons, cacodemons Get outta here -- you're ruining the WAD: SS and pain elementals, maybe lost souls too Hitscanners (grumble, snarl): hitscanners Interesting mid-tiers: mancubi, arachnotrons, revenants BFG playmates: cybers, archies, SMMs 0 Share this post Link to post
Guest Posted July 31, 2017 Cannon fodder: zombiemen, shotgun guys, imps, pinkies, lost souls Pain in the ass: chaingunners, arch-viles, revenants, pain elementals Haven't really thought about the rest. 0 Share this post Link to post
42PercentHealth Posted July 31, 2017 Fun to punch: pinkies, spectres, lost souls, pain elementals, imps, gunners Really fun to punch: hell knights, barons, revenants Really, really fun to punch: mancubi, arch-viles Really, really, really fun to punch: arachnotrons, cyberdemons Not fun to punch: SMMs :-P 2 Share this post Link to post
Roofi Posted July 31, 2017 (edited) Dangerous : imp , zombies , baron of hell , cacodemon , lost soul , cyberdemon , SM , mancubus , archvile , revenant , pain elemental , Arachnotron , hell knight , demons , spectres , Icon of sin , Nazis Not dangerous : Commander Keen Edited July 31, 2017 by Roofi 2 Share this post Link to post
GarrettChan Posted July 31, 2017 46 minutes ago, 42PercentHealth said: Not fun to punch: SMMs :-P TBH, it's "funny" to punch to me... lol 1 Share this post Link to post
Yugiboy85 Posted July 31, 2017 Arachnotron Archvile Baron of hell Cacodemon Commander Keen Cyberdemon Demon Former human Former sargeant Heavy weapon dude Hell knight Icon of sin Imp Lost soul Mancubus Our Hero Pain elemental Revenant Spectres Spider Mastermind Wolfenstein SS 2 Share this post Link to post
Bottomsup Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) Should I leave documentation of evolutionary-anatomic approach here? Ironically, it even has something common with BSP, that went standardized by Doom.https://biologicalmarginalia.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/cladistics-of-doom/ Table of data matrix is also given, so have fun with PAST/R/whatever else. Edited August 1, 2017 by Quadrops 1 Share this post Link to post
idbeholdME Posted August 1, 2017 Under the assumption -fast is on. 1. Meh Imp, Lost Soul, Arch-Vile (unless it is well placed), Hell Knight 2. Slight threat Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Cacodemon, Pain Elemental, Arachnotron, Baron of Hell (not threatening but is one of the few monsters that takes a lot of ammo to kill) 3. Moderate threat Heavy Weapon Dude, Mancubus, Spider Mastermind, Demon/Spectre 4. High threat Revenant, Cyberdemon When -fast is NOT on. 1. Meh Zombieman, Shotgun Guy, Imp, Demon, Spectre, Lost Soul, Cacodemon, Pain Elemental, Hell Knight, Mancubus, Arachnotron 2. Slight threat Heavy Weapon Dude, Arch-Vile, Spider Mastermind, Cyberdemon, Revenant, Baron of Hell 3. Moderate threat <EMPTY> 4. High threat <EMPTY> 0 Share this post Link to post
Johnatone Posted August 1, 2017 Things that need to die: Arachnotron, Archvile, Baron of hell, Cacodemon, Cyberdemon, Demon, Former human, Former sargeant, Heavy weapon dude, Hell knight, Icon of sin, Imp, Lost soul, Mancubus, Pain elemental, Revenant, Spectres, Spider Mastermind, Wolfenstein SSThings that need to not die: MeThings I'm not sure why they have to die but I need to exit the level so okay: Commander Keen 1 Share this post Link to post