Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
DarKHunTeR

My First Doom 2 Mini-Episode! (Finalized)

Recommended Posts

NOTE: This is not a fan sequel to "Sunder" nor is it a set of Slaughtermaps! Maps are in line with Vanilla-style Doom and Doom 2. I just thought the name was cool (also a pun on the phrase, "return to sender") and worked well with the story, which is viewable in the readme.

 

I joined the forums yesterday and now I am posting my first ever Doom 2 WAD mini-episode, "Return to Sunder", fresh off the press for all to play! Please leave your thoughts here! I'm very excited to hear your feedback :D Enjoy!

 

v2.0: https://www.mediafire.com/file/qdcz6vpvfsnubac/returntosunder2.0.zip

v1.0: https://www.mediafire.com/file/8ip7xbics4bkc97/returntosunder.zip

 

What port(s) did you test with? ZDoom

 

For advanced ports (e.g., GZDoom) does your map expect any of the following:

Freelook? No

Jumping/crouching? No

Specific compatibility settings? I highly reccomend ZDoom to play this WAD. I will not be testing other source ports as of now.

Which IWAD did you use? Doom II

Starts on which map? Mapset starts on MAP01.

 

How much content is there? 5 Maps from scratch.

Are there new textures/enemies/weapons? 1 New Texture for Space. 4 Custom Bosses with Custom Sprites and Behaviors by me.

Does your map contain specific gameplay themes? Going for a Vanilla-style feel as far as map layouts are concerned. No slaughter maps here. Just good ol' fashioned Doom 2 gameplay.

What difficulties did you implement, and roughly how difficult is the gameplay? No vanilla difficulty settings used. New settings are Painless (vanilla "I'm too young to die" only even more easy), Classic (the vanilla experience for this WAD), Survival (Classic with a twist), and Hell (vanilla "Nightmare!"). I and my playtester consider the gameplay difficulty to be a tough, but fair challenge on Classic (the reccomended difficulty for first time players).

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_133700.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_133919.png

 

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140105.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140137.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140212.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140326.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140342.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140632.png

Screenshot_Doom_20170802_140848.png

 

Edited by DarKHunTeR

Share this post


Link to post

The last screenshot looks cool and hilarious at the same time :D

Share this post


Link to post
36 minutes ago, Jimp Argon said:

LOL ya, kinda looks like he's showing you his new watch.

"Hey, I know you're about to get incinerated by my friend back there, but could you tell me the time? These arms are unwieldy."

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, SOSU said:

The last screenshot looks cool and hilarious at the same time :D

"Keep it classy!" Thanks for stopping by! I hope you'll consider giving the WAD a shot :D

Share this post


Link to post

So I've played through the first two levels, and I'm enjoying what I'm playing so far. The first map is okay. I dig the color schemes and claustrophobic action that is evocative of, dare I say it, Wolfenstein at points, but the map is really linear. Like one singular path with one secret linear. Not that your first map has to be a sprawling epic, but the experience here is a little bare bones. The secret is also a little strange and is placed in a strange position which left me confused more than anything. Was the red key used at all? If the end door (which is also oddly textured) is the red key door, then there's little use in putting the red key 64 pixels or so away from the door. All that being said, the combat here is solid first level stuff, and the brevity does play to the map's benefit here, as it ended up being more of a nice little burst of action than a corridor grindfest.

 

The second level is a marked improvement over the first in terms of gameplay. My only real criticisms with this map is that the overall path the player is required to take is still decidedly linear, but the little Hell Knight scavenger hunt and the green armor locked behind the blue key door do add a small sense of exploration here. The map is, again, fairly short but a bit more challenging than the first, so I died a few times. The weird SILVER door is still present.

 

On the whole, I enjoyed playing through the first two levels. Main takeaways here -- the way I see it -- are to expriment with expand your layouts, creating areas of various shapes/sizes/themes and connecting them in fun and interesting ways. I'm intrigued to see if the improvement continues with the next few maps.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Matt534Dog said:

So I've played through the first two levels, and I'm enjoying what I'm playing so far. The first map is okay. I dig the color schemes and claustrophobic action that is evocative of, dare I say it, Wolfenstein at points, but the map is really linear. Like one singular path with one secret linear. Not that your first map has to be a sprawling epic, but the experience here is a little bare bones. The secret is also a little strange and is placed in a strange position which left me confused more than anything. Was the red key used at all? If the end door (which is also oddly textured) is the red key door, then there's little use in putting the red key 64 pixels or so away from the door. All that being said, the combat here is solid first level stuff, and the brevity does play to the map's benefit here, as it ended up being more of a nice little burst of action than a corridor grindfest.

 

The second level is a marked improvement over the first in terms of gameplay. My only real criticisms with this map is that the overall path the player is required to take is still decidedly linear, but the little Hell Knight scavenger hunt and the green armor locked behind the blue key door do add a small sense of exploration here. The map is, again, fairly short but a bit more challenging than the first, so I died a few times. The weird SILVER door is still present.

 

On the whole, I enjoyed playing through the first two levels. Main takeaways here -- the way I see it -- are to expriment with expand your layouts, creating areas of various shapes/sizes/themes and connecting them in fun and interesting ways. I'm intrigued to see if the improvement continues with the next few maps.

Thanks for the feedback! This is some good stuff! Yeah, the red key on level 1 is to access the ship. I thought, from a story standpoint, that having the ship's door be completely unlocked would be silly, but I also thought, from a gameplay standpoint, that the proximity of the key is rather silly. So, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to prioritize there, so I left it in. As far as the SILVER doors go, I suppose I could update them to normal doors with silver walls on the sides. As for level 2's SILVER door, I was having a hard time finding a good texture for a longer door. I want that door to be that wide. I'll look into possibly changing that one. Overall, I find this review of the content fair, and I hope you enjoy the rest of the WAD. I feel level 3 is where things will get spicier as far as linearity and variety, but you be the judge :)

Share this post


Link to post

@DarKHunTeR A lot the issues surrounding the door textures are really just a consequence of Doom being a 20-year-old game with well-established door textures. Though there's no rule stating that you have to use the standard Doom door textures, a lot of the players in this community have been around since the 90's, and they'll likely be confused by an important door appearing as a normal wall texture. Old habits die hard I suppose. In this instance, it's just a matter of knowing your audience and knowing standard Doom conventions, all of which come with time.

 

I played the third and fourth levels, and I gotta say the third level is another serious improvement here! I really enjoyed the layout of the whole level (much less linear with a lot more space to run around and do your thing). The automap markers were also a nice nice touch. I always enjoy it when a mapper takes full advantage of the source port they're mapping for. The architecture was more varied, and it lent itself well to the combat, giving it a sense of variety even though you use the same enemies throughout... which brings me to the only real con of this map. The enemy variety is well-executed here, but the enemy progression in two of the key areas follows largely the same sequence: Zombiemen/Shotgunners/Imps --> Chaingunners/Revenants/Hell Knights --> Barons/Arch-Viles. While this is a pretty natural progression, a lot of the encounters happen between the player and a small set of monsters from either the first, second, or last group, but rarely do the encounters occur between monsters of different groups past the intro. Often times, it is more fun to fight against a solid combination of demons or a good horde than a one-on-one battle or a small group of similar demons. This is, however, remedied by the boss fight with the giant revenant which is a good change of pace.

 

MAP04... is a step backwards. I didn't enjoy this map. At first the maze concept was cool, but it quickly wears out its welcome when it becomes, in essence, another linear hallway to shoot monsters in. Sure there are branches with extra ammo, but the maze always forces you towards a singular exit, and the main combat and gameplay was mostly more shooting enemies down narrow hallways with a similar tier progression as above. The use of invisible monsters of all kinds was kind of neat, but it changes the gameplay very little once you realize they're there. I also played in in GZDoom with translucency instead of the fuzz effect, so I'm sure that had something to do with why I didn't find them a huge challenge. And as soon as the player exits the first maze, they're greeted with... another very similar maze which is much of the same but darker. Sure it made the invisible enemies a little harder to fight, but it made me lose a interest by the end. Luckily, there was another cool little custom monster boss battle at the end to refocus the player before the map was over, but the bulk of the map, in my opinion, felt like filler.

 

Overall, I can see that you're improving and experimenting with new layouts and ideas which is exactly what I was hoping I would see as I played through these last two maps. Sometimes you have an idea that doesn't pan out too well, but it's a small price to pay for an improvement in your overall skill, and it's the absolute best way to learn what works and what doesn't. Keep up the good work. I will return soon with my opinions on the fifth level.

 

P.S. Those custom monsters are actually really cool. I can definitely see you having a knack for creating cool boss battles in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Matt534Dog said:

@DarKHunTeR A lot the issues surrounding the door textures are really just a consequence of Doom being a 20-year-old game with well-established door textures. Though there's no rule stating that you have to use the standard Doom door textures, a lot of the players in this community have been around since the 90's, and they'll likely be confused by an important door appearing as a normal wall texture. Old habits die hard I suppose. In this instance, it's just a matter of knowing your audience and knowing standard Doom conventions, all of which come with time.

 

I played the third and fourth levels, and I gotta say the third level is another serious improvement here! I really enjoyed the layout of the whole level (much less linear with a lot more space to run around and do your thing). The automap markers were also a nice nice touch. I always enjoy it when a mapper takes full advantage of the source port they're mapping for. The architecture was more varied, and it lent itself well to the combat, giving it a sense of variety even though you use the same enemies throughout... which brings me to the only real con of this map. The enemy variety is well-executed here, but the enemy progression in two of the key areas follows largely the same sequence: Zombiemen/Shotgunners/Imps --> Chaingunners/Revenants/Hell Knights --> Barons/Arch-Viles. While this is a pretty natural progression, a lot of the encounters happen between the player and a small set of monsters from either the first, second, or last group, but rarely do the encounters occur between monsters of different groups past the intro. Often times, it is more fun to fight against a solid combination of demons or a good horde than a one-on-one battle or a small group of similar demons. This is, however, remedied by the boss fight with the giant revenant which is a good change of pace.

 

MAP04... is a step backwards. I didn't enjoy this map. At first the maze concept was cool, but it quickly wears out its welcome when it becomes, in essence, another linear hallway to shoot monsters in. Sure there are branches with extra ammo, but the maze always forces you towards a singular exit, and the main combat and gameplay was mostly more shooting enemies down narrow hallways with a similar tier progression as above. The use of invisible monsters of all kinds was kind of neat, but it changes the gameplay very little once you realize they're there. I also played in in GZDoom with translucency instead of the fuzz effect, so I'm sure that had something to do with why I didn't find them a huge challenge. And as soon as the player exits the first maze, they're greeted with... another very similar maze which is much of the same but darker. Sure it made the invisible enemies a little harder to fight, but it made me lose a interest by the end. Luckily, there was another cool little custom monster boss battle at the end to refocus the player before the map was over, but the bulk of the map, in my opinion, felt like filler.

 

Overall, I can see that you're improving and experimenting with new layouts and ideas which is exactly what I was hoping I would see as I played through these last two maps. Sometimes you have an idea that doesn't pan out too well, but it's a small price to pay for an improvement in your overall skill, and it's the absolute best way to learn what works and what doesn't. Keep up the good work. I will return soon with my opinions on the fifth level.

 

P.S. Those custom monsters are actually really cool. I can definitely see you having a knack for creating cool boss battles in the future.

Yet again, I am extremely pleased with this fantastic feedback! I've been playing Doom since I was in grade school, so I understand the sentiment about established tropes and they are definitely important to consider.

 

As far as demon variety is concerned, it was definitely something I considered while making the WAD. I didn't change up the stats of any of the enemies nor did I change any of their actor properties (except for the bosses), which in turn leads to one of the things I love as a player and hate as a designer. Infighting. I would love to combine different monsters into singular groups, but infighting can mess with the intended scenario. I plan on being much more custom in the future with my WADs and disabling infighting or at least limiting it, might help in this regard.

 

As far as level 4 is concerned, I was going for creeping tension involving semi invisible enemies. All the enemies are intended to be transparent, not rendered like Spectres. I also am starting to understand the importance of exploration for players and hope to include more in future WAD projects. However, as a player, I REALLY loathe getting lost in a map. I've played some WADs where people go too overboard with the puzzle aspects and make there levels as archaic as an old point and click game and I have no patience for that. So I may have oversimplified things a bit in some regards. Again, I'll consider more exploration and balance customization for future endeavors :D I will also implement some of this feedback for this WAD in the future as well! Hope you enjoy the final battle :D

Share this post


Link to post

@DarKHunTeR I definitely dig that you make maps that satisfy your criteria! "Make what you would play" is a mentality that I often use when mapping, so I respect that. I also respect that you explain what you're going for rather than just blindly take or leave my advice. It shows that you're trying to achieve a synthesis of both your original intent and my critique which, in my honest opinion, is the best possible way to receive feedback. There's a balance to everything, and who's to say that I'm in the right here? If you ask me, the best Doom wads have elements that appeal to any fan of Doom while imbuing something unique into the experience. My favorite wad right now is Ancient Aliens because Skillsaw et al. bring the funderful shooting action that makes Doom great while putting their own spin on it.

 

In regards to monster infighting, it's one of those elements in Doom that can backfire on you, but you can, in turn, backfire on it. What I mean is that, at first, it seems like it's a mechanic that just ruins what you had planned for the scenario at hand, but, as you create more complex scenarios, it can become a viable and fun tool to spice things up or just experiment with.

 

I'm excited to see where Doom mapping takes you!

Share this post


Link to post

Hello, DarkHunTeR!

 

Firstly I would like to thank you for bringing us this piece of entertainment and work. It's great that you are interested in making maps for Doom II!

I played through all the levels and finished it! I like how you made it with a story it was interesting to read it.

 

Now about the levels and overall experience! I liked how the first map started, in the jail, the classic. It was interesting and it had more detail in it. However, I think the transition between areas is way too excessive from bright jail into a dungeon pretty much. However, the first level was fine. During the second level, I had to switch from arrow keys to WASD and mouse as the difficulty level went rocking up. However, the first part of level 2 design was great. I liked the space thing, reminded me of Duke Nukem instantly, awesome. Also, the mini rooms from left and right, was interesting. However, I did not find any secrets in any of the maps. I did not go full on "use" on every wall but still... Perhaps finding at least one secret would be nice.

 

What I really disliked was that there were too many monsters mashed together and it was like in "wave" form as from riflemen to harder monsters instead of having strategic planning on enemies... Perhaps try to think that part through more... Also, there were not enough ammo or health packs and the labyrinth design is really frustrating. Halfway through the levels, I was considering quitting the maps. After clearing the brown labyrinth with the frustration I discovered that later on there was a whole level (the blue one) made of them so I skipped many monsters and ran till the exit ( while dying a lot and loading). I would recommend putting more effort in detail perhaps. Make "interesting" level design rather than going full on "painkiller/serious sam" area clearing. I also disliked that bosses required too much shooting, not hard, just too bullet spongy.

 

Long story short about what I disliked:

  • Not enough ammo/health
  • No secret areas/ or are very very hard to find
  • Too linear level design
  • Too many labyrinths
  • Boss enemies are bullet sponges
  • Perhaps too dark at some points 
  • Too many enemies/enemy spamming
  • Too  many ****** Arch-viles.
  • Levels use same design - The "icon of the sin" level kind of elevator walls on 2 levels on last level, and the other one... Personally I just ignored bullets and went for the top floor without bothering any of the monsters before.
Now I'll talk about things I liked.
 
  • I liked the other wads that were used, I agree on plasma gun sound, and other sounds - nice.
  • I liked how you thought about a story and tried to bring it to life in your levels.
  • Special monsters were great. Also the door "mission" the kill 3 imps pretty much... I liked that
  • I liked the "space" skybox and the first part of that level, also the first level was fine!

 

 

Well There's not too many things I liked right now, and I do not mean to be offensive or insult you. I thank you for making the levels! However all my negativty is to help you see what I think is not that great right now. I hope you get something out of this feedback and continue making levels and keep bringing your story ideas to life with Doom.

 

Thank you again for making the levels and reading this feedback.

 

Sincerly,

SkillZilla

 
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

@SkillZilla No need to apologize, this is excellent! Very well thought out and extremely useful feedback and very detailed! I really appreciate the bullet lists and will definitely take this into consideration!

 

Funny enough, my play tester (my younger brother, an avid Doom player) also said there might be a few too many archies near the end, though he didn't think it was game breaking.

 

I was also curious what people would say about the labryinth areas. I tried not to make them too hard, though I had a feeling level 3's "brown" maze might be a little difficult. I definitely want to revisit that area. It's supposed to be the engine room of the space ship and I wanted to possibly incorporate some lava and landmarks to make it a little easier to navigate and give it some much needed detail.

 

As far as level 4 is concerned, I should probably add some more stuff to that maze as well or open the level up a bit more. Definitely, something to take into consideration.

 

As for the "spongy" bosses, I balanced there health around the super shotgun so you couldn't just blast your way through them, you would need to utilize other weps in the arsenal. I LOVE the SSG, but incorporating it without making the game a cakewalk is a balancing act.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the concept for my story and read through the readme!

 

Again, this is some great feedback and I appreciate the fact that even though you weren't sold on the WAD, you gave it a fair chance and left a critical, but polite review! Thank you very much :)

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Matt534Dog said:

@DarKHunTeR I definitely dig that you make maps that satisfy your criteria! "Make what you would play" is a mentality that I often use when mapping, so I respect that. I also respect that you explain what you're going for rather than just blindly take or leave my advice. It shows that you're trying to achieve a synthesis of both your original intent and my critique which, in my honest opinion, is the best possible way to receive feedback. There's a balance to everything, and who's to say that I'm in the right here? If you ask me, the best Doom wads have elements that appeal to any fan of Doom while imbuing something unique into the experience. My favorite wad right now is Ancient Aliens because Skillsaw et al. bring the funderful shooting action that makes Doom great while putting their own spin on it.

 

In regards to monster infighting, it's one of those elements in Doom that can backfire on you, but you can, in turn, backfire on it. What I mean is that, at first, it seems like it's a mechanic that just ruins what you had planned for the scenario at hand, but, as you create more complex scenarios, it can become a viable and fun tool to spice things up or just experiment with.

 

I'm excited to see where Doom mapping takes you!

Thanks so much for playing my WAD! Your feedback is awesome and I'm excited to implement it soon! I hope to hear from you again in the future :)

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, DarKHunTeR said:

 

I am happy that you find my feedback useful! I am looking forward to the future WADs you are making and I hope to see great improvements in the future! If you make major updates to the current WAD and I happen to see it then I probrably look into it aswell, make sure to tag me somehow then. I myself started to make a map yesterday aswell and am fairly new to Doom level design. It's fun and if it's ready I might post it here too! This community is great.

 

 

EDIT: Also  If you sometimes think that supershotgun would be mainly used during your maps then... You don't have to add it, Doom 1 did not have this OP weapon and survived. Or add SS on end levels to make it more rewarding. It was a shame in my opinion that plasmagun was only obtainable in the last level. (oops going to feedback again..)

Share this post


Link to post

Status Update: Version 2.0 is currently in the works! A more specific set of changes will be listed when 2.0 is released! I'm taking my time with this newer version so I appreciate your patience.

Share this post


Link to post

Update 2.0 Now Available!

 

Download Link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/qdcz6vpvfsnubac/returntosunder2.0.zip

 

Across The Board Changes:
-Ammo types and placement.
-Toned down amount of Archviles present in WAD.
-Monster variety, counts, and placement in the levels.
-Managed to squeeze some Mancubus into the maps this time around, as well ;)
-Plasma Rifle is now accessible before the final stage.
-Chainsaw has been placed in one of the stages for players to find.
-Changed some door textures.
-Added detail to some sparce looking areas.

 

Difficulties:
-Painless: Now completely vanilla "I'm too young to die." Original iteration was excessive.

 

Level 1:
-Removed Red Key and Red Key Lock from Level 1.
-Beefed up Secret's reward.

 

Level 3:
-New Music Track for Level!
-Maze area has been given more detail and better navigation. (Note: Lava floors are intended not to hurt player, but are merely decorative elements for the area.)
-Fixed a rare teleporter glitch I stumbled upon.

 

Level 4:
-Made level design less labryinthine, more freeform and open. Hope you enjoy the results :D

 

That's all for this WAD. I'm moving on to greener pastures with my next WAD, (one of the reasons this update took some time to get finished). Unless there are some glitches, I'm not going to be updating this WAD further. I hope you enjoy the final product and thanks for your feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×