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Myst.Haruko

Greymood(new map after few months) (uploaded in idgames)

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4 minutes ago, Mikami41 said:

I found these failure sectors on the final part :( 

1.png

2.png

3.png

4.png

You had press switch. It's important. Press switch no matter what.

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People aren't going to know what you intend for them to do, so it's important to make a map that is fool proof. It's really unpleasant when you play a map for x amount of time, when suddenly it's broken and you've now just wasted your time. People wont want to play your map. As a designer, you need to be thinking about how the player is going to do unintended thing and adjust your map to accommodate for this.

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1 minute ago, everennui said:

People aren't going to know what you intend for them to do, so it's important to make a map that is fool proof. It's really unpleasant when you play a map for x amount of time, when suddenly it's broken and you've now just wasted your time. People wont want to play your map. As a designer, you need to be thinking about how the player is going to do unintended thing and adjust your map to accommodate for this.

Some grates which go down to floor with walkable line trigger will fix this and prevents player to fall down before floor trap will be revealed while pressing switch. I don't see problem here. Only problem that I need get some rest before I'll put update. 

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46 minutes ago, Mikami41 said:

I found these failure sectors on the final part :(

 

42 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

You had press switch. It's important. Press switch no matter what.

I am inclined to think that this is a texture lump issue or something along those lines. The test version I had used in GLBoom+ did not have any of these issues at all. After downloading the released version, I noticed that it wouldn't even load in GLBoom+ to begin with, because it spits out a "missing texture" error message, meaning, that there lies a problem.

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3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 

I am inclined to think that this is a texture lump issue or something along those lines. The test version I had used in GLBoom+ did not have any of these issues at all. After downloading the released version, I noticed that it wouldn't even load in GLBoom+ to begin with, because it spits out a "missing texture" error message, meaning, that there lies a problem.

Those pits don't have texture. Maybe should kept wad with all textures, because I cleaned those unused ones. Heck, I really need some sleep :""")

I mean, my glboom+  worked fine. I'll put grates and put all textures in place if this can solve missing texture problem.

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3 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

Those pits don't have texture. Maybe should kept wad with all textures, because I cleaned those unused ones. Heck, I really need some sleep :""")

okay, so the player missed the switch by which you raise the pits. That in and off itself is a problem I did not test for (maybe I should have). If all the switch does is to raise the pits, you can easily replace the switch with a tripwire-linedef and be done with it.

 

The missing texture issue is another matter entirely, and that also needs to be looked into.

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1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

okay, so the player missed the switch by which you raise the pits. That in and off itself is a problem I did not test for (maybe I should have). If all the switch does is to raise the pits, you can easily replace the switch with a tripwire-linedef and be done with it.

 

The missing texture issue is another matter entirely, and that also needs to be looked into.

Which missing texture gives error in prboom? 

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1 minute ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

Which missing texture gives error in prboom? 

I am currently looking at it...

 

It says LAVFALL4 is missing, and I am currently looking around to see if that texture is even used anywhere to begin with.

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6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am currently looking at it...

 

It says LAVFALL4 is missing, and I am currently looking around to see if that texture is even used anywhere to begin with.

This one gave me error too. Alright. 

 

To do list for me:

1.Reinclude cctex4 again in wad

2. Replace switch with walkable wires

3.Create grates to prevent player to fall way too early in last area.

4. Check all tags if they connected correctly with action  lines.

 

I mean in first wad version when I cleaned all unused things.

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After digging around in the texture lumps of your wad, there is at least a total of 6 textures missing:

 

LAVFALL2
LAVFALL3
LAVFALL4

 

GRYFALL2

GRYFALL3

GRYFALL4

 

These textures need to be included the wad to make sure that the the corresponding textures can be animated. An animated wall texture is a series of several different textures that get changed at a specific speed, in a specific order. You removed a few too many textures, which makes it so that when I launch the WAD in GZDoom, the lavafalls aren't animated, because the engine can't find any other textures to switch to. That's why this does not work properly.

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^ Oops, you said what I wanted to say about the non-animated lava falls / grey falls.

 

Some of the elevators are going up and down automatically, that's intentional, right?

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Just now, GarrettChan said:

Some of the elevators are going up and down automatically, that's intentional, right?

It is intentional.

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Just now, leodoom85 said:

It is intentional.

OK, that's good. Because I saw trigger points at the edge of some, that's why I asked.

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Fortunately, all of those bugs can be fixed. I should have tested that last part in a meticulous way. 

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Now I made quick update, animated liquid textures should work now in prboom+/glboom+ and in other ports too. I'm still waiting for review and suggestions.

Edited by MysteriousHaruko

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I did an FDA with the first version of the map posted in the OP. It runs as is if you load cc4-tex.wad after it.

 

greymood_rd_fda.zip

 

Here's the old version of the wad in case it's needed to preserve playback sync.

 

Important note: For a short time I thought the map was broken in prBoom+ -cl 9. You have a switch comfortably within 'touching range' of the player, the one that lowers the bars on the east side of the map. It doesn't make a lot of sense for this to be a shoot switch instead of a regular use-activated switch, so it took me a minute or so to think, "Wait, really, is that a shoot switch?" In general, shoot switches should be placed such that it's immediately obvious that they are shoot switches. Usually where they can't be easily 'touched' -- recessed in holes, at the same height level as the player but inaccessible due to topography, etc. Some mapsets also use a dedicated shoot switch texture. 

 

The presence of the IoS was quite a shock. Non-player objects can telefrag the player with classic Doom behavior only on map30, and monsters are prone to getting stuck inside one another otherwise. I don't think that affects the fight much. From a combat perspective, the warp-ins are mostly inconsequential given the invuls and cells provided, and the presence of the IoS successfully does its only job -- to give the player a kick in the ass by instilling time pressure. Still something to keep in mind, however. My descent into the arena below could have been blocked by infinite height, thanks to the mob of monsters underneath. Getting stonewalled by infinite height as the invul wore off would be quite an annoying way to die, so I think it's important to figure out how to convey the 'safe' path down, or set up the mobs so that they can't block the player like that. I didn't quite understand what was going on in the IoS fight. Why not? Well I didn't notice the teleporter that had become accessible until my second trip through the switch sequence, and naturally, I didn't even look over there the first time I was up there, because all of the monsters had my attention. This teleporter plays a very essential role in completing the map, yet it's off to the side like an afterthought. It would be more conventional to place it such that it's a lot more noticeable. Confused, however, I managed to stumble through.

 

I didn't feel too pressured at any point in the map, but the combat was serviceable and satisfying enough, particularly the stuff en route to the blue key. Fun archvile reveal. The pit spectres beneath lifts are mostly awkward -- they don't do much but intercept autoaim headed towards chaingunners or temporarily block your dropoffs. You could afford to dial up the pressure in a number of places. The red key encounter is somewhat underwhelming and could use an additional threat vector (monsters warping in at the corners of the top level, perhaps). The archvile and crew in the area that makes the red key accessible is a meat door; it's possible that these monsters all warped in too soon. These would work better if they appeared when the player is already in the room, with a couple of pillars added for the archvile. I think that given the number of invuls and cells you have in the last fight, you could turn up the heat there too. Three invuls on ground level is a lot to work with. I'd be inclined to cut it down to one, or to replace these with some mix of health and armor.

 

But overall, this is a definite improvement from your past works. You are getting somewhere. Keep it up. 

 

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Gosh is this the map you wanted me to test? I feel horrible for not getting around to it, but having gotten the flu and such I just couldn't.

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16 minutes ago, rdwpa said:

I did an FDA with the first version of the map posted in the OP. It runs as is if you load cc4-tex.wad after it.

 

greymood_rd_fda.zip

 

Here's the old version of the wad in case it's needed to preserve playback sync.

 

Important note: For a short time I thought the map was broken in prBoom+ -cl 9. You have a switch comfortably within 'touching range' of the player, the one that lowers the bars on the east side of the map. It doesn't make a lot of sense for this to be a shoot switch instead of a regular use-activated switch, so it took me a minute or so to think, "Wait, really, is that a shoot switch?" In general, shoot switches should be placed such that it's immediately obvious that they are shoot switches. Usually where they can't be easily 'touched' -- recessed in holes, at the same height level as the player but inaccessible due to topography, etc. Some mapsets also use a dedicated shoot switch texture. 

 

The presence of the IoS was quite a shock. Non-player objects can telefrag the player with classic Doom behavior only on map30, and monsters are prone to getting stuck inside one another otherwise. I don't think that affects the fight much. From a combat perspective, the warp-ins are mostly inconsequential given the invuls and cells provided, and the presence of the IoS successfully does its only job -- to give the player a kick in the ass by instilling time pressure. Still something to keep in mind, however. My descent into the arena below could have been blocked by infinite height, thanks to the mob of monsters underneath. Getting stonewalled by infinite height as the invul wore off would be quite an annoying way to die, so I think it's important to figure out how to convey the 'safe' path down, or set up the mobs so that they can't block the player like that. I didn't quite understand what was going on in the IoS fight. Why not? Well I didn't notice the teleporter that had become accessible until my second trip through the switch sequence, and naturally, I didn't even look over there the first time I was up there, because all of the monsters had my attention. This teleporter plays a very essential role in completing the map, yet it's off to the side like an afterthought. It would be more conventional to place it such that it's a lot more noticeable. Confused, however, I managed to stumble through.

 

I didn't feel too pressured at any point in the map, but the combat was serviceable and satisfying enough, particularly the stuff en route to the blue key. Fun archvile reveal. The pit spectres beneath lifts are mostly awkward -- they don't do much but intercept autoaim headed towards chaingunners or temporarily block your dropoffs. You could afford to dial up the pressure in a number of places. The red key encounter is somewhat underwhelming and could use an additional threat vector (monsters warping in at the corners of the top level, perhaps). The archvile and crew in the area that makes the red key accessible is a meat door; it's possible that these monsters all warped in too soon. These would work better if they appeared when the player is already in the room, with a couple of pillars added for the archvile. I think that given the number of invuls and cells you have in the last fight, you could turn up the heat there too. Three invuls on ground level is a lot to work with. I'd be inclined to cut it down to one, or to replace these with some mix of health and armor.

 

But overall, this is a definite improvement from your past works. You are getting somewhere. Keep it up. 

 

Thank you for your kind words. I think I'm going to put one shootable switch texture to reduce confusion. I'll check your demo file and see what can I do with your pointed things. Actually, I'm pleased that I've got more good words than bad words besides some errors in first version.

 

21 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

Gosh is this the map you wanted me to test? I feel horrible for not getting around to it, but having gotten the flu and such I just couldn't.

You can do this now or later, it won't go away, just new versions will replace older ones.

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Just finished the wad . Music is great, it blends quite well with the atmosphere . I don't think that many invulnerabilities was necessary , however the overall map was great . I am pretty sure it would have better if you gave the map an actual name ;)

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3 minutes ago, A7MAD said:

Just finished the wad . Music is great, it blends quite well with the atmosphere . I don't think that many invulnerabilities was necessary , however the overall map was great . I am pretty sure it would have better if you gave the map an actual name ;)

It's better name than MAP01(speedmap stuff) and I named this "greymood", because when I mapped this, I was quite sad and wanted express my sadness through grey/brown/white textures. 

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This map is quite easy for me, didn't die at all. The visuals aren't so good, and the IoS doesn't make much sense. The lift in the blood pit is annoying, I could not figure out how to lower it.

greymood_vita.zip

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1 minute ago, 38_ViTa_38 said:

This map is quite easy for me, didn't die at all. The visuals aren't so good, and the IoS doesn't make much sense. The lift in the blood pit is annoying, I could not figure out how to lower it.

greymood_vita.zip

I can't make everyone happy and lift was set down and up only once as emergency if you fall down. I rather have a good gameplay(or average one) than overdetailed map which can't offer good encounters. This my only fourth map in this forum, which I shared here. 

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I played it just now and i find it quite good ,the visuals are pretty nice and i liked how abstract it got at the "colorful waterfalls" place and the midi really added to the atmosphere but it was like many maps "2Hard4Me" (and i don't play on easy!) it was a bit slaughter-ish with over 300 mosters and the weapons and monsters get introduced a bit too fast,i recommend trying to make smaller combat encounters with less ammo using just 1 or 2 weapons oh and you should make the combat encounters a little bit more varied with monsters coming from multiple directions instead of facing most enemies in a encounter.
So i would give this map a 3.5/5 :)

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So i decided to upload a video about this map:

 

Despite of the missing textures, Many structures and texture pacement inspires me and i'm agree that the music fits with the map :)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SOSU said:

the weapons and monsters get introduced a bit too fast,i recommend trying to make smaller combat encounters with less ammo using just 1 or 2 weapons

There's a certain philosophy of mapping that seems to treat every wad as The First Pwad Ever Made: you start off with single shotgun combat, and then you pick up the chaingun somewhere and fight with that. Then you find either the rocket launcher or the super shotgun -- usually the rocket launcher because this type of philosophy also holds the super shotgun as overpowered -- and later the other one. Toward the end in the map, often for the 'final encounter', you get the plasma rifle or the BFG, usually the plasma rifle because the BFG is also held as 'overpowered'. There might be a secret melee weapon somewhere. Through the map, monsters are introduced similarly, again as if the player hasn't played Doom before and needs to be introduced to the monsters the same way the original iwads do. Everything is handed out as expected and there are no surprises. 

 

This is usually what many people consider 'progression'. Experienced players have played this particular map archetype dozens of times. It's really old hat by now. (Often this sort of map in ZDoom in Hexen format despite using no features other than flats as textures and vice versa, or Thing_Spawn where conventional monster teleporters would do, or a random 'This doesn't seem to work' message.) There's no reason to map that way, and no rule that says you need to dawdle around in warm-up combat before jumping into the actual good stuff. There are other ways to handle progression. Scale is one: the core fights can start off small and grow larger. Intensity is another: you might use the RL and BFG for the whole map, but fights can steadily increase in difficulty. Variety is its own form of progression: shifts from smaller to larger areas and vice versa, from areas you can traverse freely to those that require movement over damaging floors and vice versa, or brighter ones to darker ones, or significant changes in height levels, and so on . . . all the types of contrast possible have their own inner logic. Narrative is another type of progression: imagine a map that has you clearing out peripheral areas before storming an imposing central bastion you could see, but not reach, from the start of the map. There's no reason to adhere to small arms -> gradually larger arms in every map when there are so many more interesting ways to change things up.

 

MysteriousHaruko's map jumps to the SSG and RL early, with ample ammo for both, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every time we make a map. Encounters are already small -- except for the last one, in which the player gets a BFG and multiple invuls, no more than a couple dozen monsters are active at a single time. Weapon choice is usually a good or neutral thing, not a bad one; instead of fighting solely with one or two weapons as the map dictates, I get to choose what to do with my varied arsenal.


 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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