Hardest map of the Doom series

So in your opinion, which is the hardest map out of the four official Doom WAD files, Ultimate Doom, Doom II, TNT Evilution, The Plutonia Experiment, and NO MEGAWADS?

 

I think E4M2: Perfect Hatred is the hardest. Reply about your opinion of the hardest map of the four WAD files or if you agree/disagree with me.

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I think one has to differ between pistol start or not and on which difficulty and if single player or multiplayer. i.e. doom2 map17 on nightmare multiplayer pistol start can be quite difficult, whereas on UV singleplayer pistol start is easy

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Map15 - you get to listen to D_RUNNIN for a long long time.

Map28 - all I can say is: good luck finding that damn exit.

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1 hour ago, HavoX said:

Go 2 It.

 

I don't think this requires any further explanation.

 

Canonically, this is the accepted answer. But I vehemently disagree, and offer that TNT Evilution's MAP08 - Metal is probably the toughest owing to a bullshit end segment with hitscanners that are often outside autoaim range in an open area with little cover.

 

And personally, I can beat Go 2 It from a pistol start; but will happily IDDQD that last segment of Metal because, actually, fuck Metal.

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2 hours ago, HavoX said:

Go 2 It.

 

I don't think this requires any further explanation.

Technically speaking it has the toughest monster count and a fuckton of cyberdemons, but at least that level gives you the proper ammo and health to deal with all that. E4M1 doesn't even have that to help you through the beatdown, and I still can't get past this level without dying at least once. On top of that, there's a good chance the player is playing Go 2 It on a continuous run, and they may have extra health/armor from MAP31 (though that level is pretty damn hard itself). E4M1 is the first goddamn level in E4. This is all talking UV difficulty into account though, and E4M1 is not nearly as hard on HMP and below.

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Can we put to rest the myth that MAP32 is Plutonia's toughest map? I generally have more a hard time with MAP16, personally.

Or, MAP02 pistol start. Or MAP12. And so on and so forth.

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The question is easier to answer if you narrow it down to pistol-starts vs continuous or saves vs no-saves or foreknowledge vs blind.  I first played the iwads continuous with saves, which influences my impression of them. (ps, thanks for clarifying with previous post as i write this)

 

I just played Go 2 It after reading this thread to see how hard it was from pistol-start no-saves.  I remembered this being one of the hardest and most fucking intimidating maps when I first played.  Playing it just now though, I came out with no deaths on my first try and took ~25 minutes (I paced myself and didn't rush if I didn't need to).  The only really tricky parts involved archviles, some of which I remembered but some of which caught me off-guard a bit.  The main thing that cuts the difficulty of the map is being able to enter all fights at 200:200 health from the megaspheres, also BFG at start helps.  Anyways, it was satisfying to replay the map after the years.

 

I've played a couple plutonia maps from pistol start, and I remember them being pretty hard because you have to scramble for weapons with omni-directional chaingunner turrets everywhere.  I guess I'll have do Final Doom pistol starts at some point because I feel like the hardest iwad map will be in there, but I don't have sufficient knowledge of them to vote on them.

Edited by NoisyVelvet
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The hardest is actually E4M2: Perfect Hatred, because there is much less ammo and health and it seems a lot, but is too small against everything in the map. So basically scarcity of health/armor/ammo is closer than it appears.

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MAP27 of TNT, hardest map to do without cringing at any aspect of it. It's long, has loads of crappy damaging floor hallways, weird door triggers, blah. also highest monster count of the IWADs too, so its a chore to max.

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1 hour ago, Jayextee said:

Can we put to rest the myth that MAP32 is Plutonia's toughest map? I generally have more a hard time with MAP16, personally.

Or, MAP02 pistol start. Or MAP12. And so on and so forth.

Agreed totally. Well of Souls, Speed, Slayer, NME, and Anti-Christ are all way tougher than Go2It.

Edited by Cynical

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E3M2. I always found that map pretty hard because of ammo restriction and narrow spaces.

Edited by Roofi

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Actually E3M2 is easy. I don't have much trouble and the limited ammo and space does not increase the difficulty. In fact, you get a plasma rifle, berserk pack, soul sphere and combat armor in that map.

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1 minute ago, Roofi said:

E3M2. I always found that map pretty hard because of ammo restriction and narrow spaces.

Really? I usually get through that map pretty easily.

The blue key is extremely easy to find, you don't have to go through all that extra stuff.

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I wanted to mention a map outside the fourth episode. I know that the fourth episode is harder than the third one globally. I found E3M2 hard especially when I was young but this map is rather easy to finish today.

 

In Doom 2 , map 09 and map 22 were the hardest maps for me.

 

However  , I never found Plutonia map 32 really hard. Ammo and Health are plenty although there a lot of monsters.

Edited by Roofi

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I'll probably do a pistol start for ALL maps of the IWADs and then give a proper opinion. That's because I played all of the maps in a continuous way and also depends of the difficulty or the challenge that you planned, like doing UV-Fast or speedruns or UV-Tyson and such.

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Assuming UV pistol starts and conventional routes, Plutonia Map12 i think. Some really nasty enemy placement and that immensely harsh chaingunner trap that's hard to eradicate in advance.

 

In PL32 you get given the BFG immediately and enough cells to spam it quite a lot.

Edited by Scotty

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2 minutes ago, CzechMate29200 said:

Either that's a really shitty joke, or you're a troll. Which ever one you might be, just stop

Get the berserk in E3M2 and you win automatically......

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1 minute ago, leodoom85 said:

Get the berserk in E3M2 and you win automatically......

I don't get it...

Edited by CzechMate29200

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1 minute ago, CzechMate29200 said:

I don't get it...

Really? If you're saving ammo from the start, the best choice is to get the berserk and you'll clear E3M2 with almost no problem.... 

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E3M2? get key, wake up souls then relax in spawn for 20 seconds before rushing to the exit? No need to conserve ammo if you play like a rat :P.

 

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Obviously to answer this I would have to play each map to remember exactly what map caused me more lives. At this moment, I can assure that Go 2 It is NOT the hardest map, it is hard and intimidating at first, maybe at second too, but once you know the map it's practically forgiving in a slow way, given the abundance of ammo and megaspheres. 

 

If I recall correctly, from TNT the two hardest for me were Prison and River Styx (map 07 and 29 respectively), but they are also not that hard. Then for Plutonia, I don't know. For Ultimate Doom, I also don't know, probably E4M6, and for Doom II it has to be The Living End, the part where you teleport in front of zombiemen and revenants always deal the most damage to me, and then falling on lava type worst. 

Edited by galileo31dos01
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3 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

At this moment, I can assure that Go 2 It is NOT the hardest map, it is hard and intimidating at first, maybe at second too, but once you know the map it's practically easy in a slow way, given the abundance of ammo and megaspheres. 

Especially since you're spamming the BFG most of the time while side-strafing like a madman.

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I haven't yet finished TNT or Plutonia, so take this with a grain of salt (newer player, gone about twenty levels into both), but I'm going to offer the hot take that The Master Levels' "Mephisto's Mausoleum" is the hardest officially released map I've played. It's the only one so far I cannot imagine beating without saves, due to its first indoor section with Revenants and bridges. Too tedious and luck-based. Had to make a save beforehand and just throw myself at it until I scraped through.

 

Of course, maybe it's not fair to include Master Levels entries as they're all designed to be played in stand-alone fashion from a pistol start, and I can't speak to how every level from the iwads plays from the same.

 

In Ultimate Doom, at least, I can say that the hardest is E4M6 (narrowly beating out E4M2), and all of those maps I actually have played from pistol start before, recently having replayed Episode 4 with carryover. None of them are "Will I ever be able to beat this?" hard though.

 

EDIT -- I want to clarify that it's not my habit to play with in-level saves, so when I say, "cannot imagine beating without saves," I functionally mean "can't imagine beating." In this case I just made a save to see if there were better strategies for that section, and eventually wound up getting through to the end.

 

Even with levels I haven't finished yet, or ones I attempt that may be beyond my skill level, I can generally see how if I do steps X, Y, and Z, I'll be able to conquer it (and that's the fun of playing hard games to me; the initial feeling of being overwhelmed, followed by the simultaneous puzzle and execution elements required to complete it). With "Mephisto," I literally can't see how to get through reliably. If a Revenant wanders into the wrong spot while you're circle-strafing the room, you're dead. If you slip off one of the bridges, you're very likely dead (though a safe reentry up top comes almost entirely down to luck, which is also kind of infurating). If you stop for a second too long to pick one off, you're dead. If you waste too many rockets when you have them clustered, you're dead fifteen minutes later when you need enough to quickly clear out the Barons and finish off the Icon of Sin at the end. So much has to go right in such a tight spot there, and if you fail it's back to a start that's either incredibly tedious or incredibly risky (if you choose to just try to stun the Revenant guarding the warp and slip past him).

 

Maybe this is a case of "hard for the wrong reasons," then, but at any rate, it's certainly designed to be intentionally difficult, and it's the least conquerable official level I've played, and for that reason it feels like the right answer to this thread.

 

EDIT EDIT -- Just tried on HMP and it's almost too easy. What a difference a handful of Revenants make in that space.

Edited by Cipher
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Map 01: Entryway is the hardest. D_Runnin is just TOO much to bare.

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