The Given - A large, monsterless, puzzle map (on /idgames)

[Surreily]

Played it, completed all puzzles in 1.5 hours (unless there are secret ones I missed). The map looks beautiful, but lagged every source port I tried (I ended up going with GZDoom because it provided the most frames). Warning: the spoiler describe all puzzles, play before you look!!!

 

Spoiler

The "way too many switches" puzzle: It had me stumped until I found what that strange blob on the ground nearby was referring to. Looking up at the ceiling also helped: this area has stars, there's another area with stars too, oh it matches the blob, let's go there). Once I did, I had no problems.

 

The "you go through gates to raise and lower blocks" puzzle: Pretty good puzzle! However, the player can be a bit naughty here: there are two action lines in each gate, so it is possible to cross one and back out before crossing the other. I think this is an easy fix: just add a third line and "sandwich" the floor lowering action between two floor raising actions (don't really know how to describe it better, sorry).

 

The "raising and lowering platforms in the castle" puzzle: I liked how this one takes place in a castle/fortress thing. No problems at all with this one, though it was the one I found the hardest (I couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing lol).

 

The "arrows pointing the way" puzzle: Not really a "puzzle" in my definition of the term, but it's done well enough that I have nothing to complain about :)

 

The "raise the steps with the candles" puzzle: The first thing I noticed was that little bit of "player training" you provided, it really helps with this type of puzzle. I found it a bit misleading that there were more than two candles in some groups, yet interacting with them was impossible.

 

The "reverse invisible maze thing" puzzle: I had no trouble at all with this one, I even noticed the maze was flipped before going in and did it on the first try (though I did cheat with a pen and paper).

 

The FINAL puzzle: It's a memory test, nothing really to say about this one other than it works.

 

Thanks for this, it was fun :)

[Jimmy]

I'mma stream in 20 minutes.

 

https://www.twitch.tv/jimmysquared

[snapshot]

I Like how no custom textures were used in this, I believe there's no custom textures anywhere yet it looks gorgeous, Hell even the ceiling which people usually don't give so much attention to, I spent about 15 minutes fooling around, I didn't care much for the puzzles eventhough I tried solving some, slight FPS drop If I try to look upside, on GTX1060 but It wasn't that bad. Great work.

[Man Q. Bus]

I loved this.

 

Spoiler

You were really clever with the stock texture usage. I especially liked the FIREBLU vegetables.

 

My favorite puzzle was the one where you had to run over the candles. I had no idea what to do with it for like 20 minutes. Then I noticed all the hints.

 

I also liked how the entrance to the maze area was marked on the map. It reminded me of Bob Evans' maps in Eternal Doom.

 

The only puzzle I didn't really figure out was the one with all the skull textures on the rocks. I thought I was suppose to be hitting switches that were wrapped around corners and found the answer only by chance. I do like the idea of giving the player so many possibilities that guessing is unfeasible, though.

 

For some reason, I particularly liked this little place:

 

 

 

It took me about two and a half hours to beat, and I had no problems running it with version 2.5.1.3 of PrBoom+.

[Kaido]

Apparently to complete this wad you have to NOT complete this wad

[Surreily]

22 minutes ago, Man Q. Bus said:

 

  Hide contents

The only puzzle I didn't really figure out was the one with all the skull textures on the rocks. I thought I was suppose to be hitting switches that were wrapped around corners and found the answer only by chance. I do like the idea of giving the player so many possibilities that guessing is unfeasible, though.

 

For some reason, I particularly liked this little place:

 

 

Spoiler

I don't know if you picked up on this already, but do those green structures in the "little place" you found remind you of anything? :)

 

[Tristan]

5 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

Also god dammit, Eris is pulling ahead in the musical sweepstakes.

Now I'm waiting for that call-out thread over in multiplayer, haha. ^{pls don't you'll wipe the floor with me :<}

 

Congratulations on the release dobu! As I expected I was getting about 1.4 SPF at the start area, though it improved to about 2-3 once I moved away from there. Moving about almost feels like a puzzle in itself in these circumstances, like you're being challenged to do stuff while avoiding looking in a certain direction. I feel like one could make something like a limit-removing/Boom-compatible Gorgon this way...

So far I only managed to do the puzzle in one of the far ends with the coloured gates/lowering slabs. I then moved on to the castle platforming one but fucking hell that's tough with a low framerate, even with saves and reloading every time I fell off, so I'm stuck there ultimately.

I think normally I'd be raging about this but fortunately I just can't out of my appreciation for the insane amount of work that's been put in here. Starting to think dobu himself is from one of these distant otherworldly realms :P

 

Glad people seem to be enjoying the music so far too. Over the past few months I've been working on a fairly large musical contribution to one of dobu's other projects, and I hit the halfway mark with it about a month ago, which is when the music of this map was brought up, my repertoire is still pitifully tiny so when dobu asked if I had anything that would fit the map, nothing even really came close, and I wanted a break from Pano so here we are.

Dobu asked for a 5 minute piece, I gave him nearly 7, and part of me feels that still isn't enough Given that it took me that long just to work out where I wanted to go first, but nobody has complained about it being too short so far so I guess it's not really an issue. Happy to have had the opportunity to contribute to this, thanks dobu :)

[antares031]

"7 out of 7 puzzles has been solved in the middle of nowhere."

 

I've been looking forward to play this one since I saw the mapping stream on Twitch. I didn't expect to see this kind of puzzle map on Doom, honestly. But you managed to make me spend about 70 minutes to test my IQ in a good way. Surprisingly, the last puzzle in the middle was the easiest one, since the automap of glBoom+ allowed me to see the symbols with no problem :D. And my favorite one was the four-colored platforms puzzle, which was also the most difficult one to me. What a brilliant stuff.

 

Maybe this is a minor flaw, but the texture alignment of linedef 22097 and 22098 should be corrected.

 

Spoiler

 

You've got to be kidding me. xD

 

[Linguica]

1 hour ago, Eris Falling said:

I feel like one could make something like a limit-removing/Boom-compatible Gorgon this way...

Why do you think it's called the Medusa effect?

[Steve D]

I stopped in to look around, but as you're aware, my interest in puzzles is so low as to be subterranean. Indeed, a team of scientists at MIT has used near-magical technology to locate that interest as just outside the earth's core. ;D But nonetheless, I enjoyed 15 minutes or so of poking around with my jaw agape at the vistas.

 

I used GZDoom 3.1, but even with a Core i7 and a GTX 1060 I bought for Doom 2016, I still had some stuttering, so a little finger-wag at you for that, young man. ;)

 

Even though it's not my thing, I love that you're pushing the boundaries, Dobu. Please don't stop.

 

And as for Eris, well, he gave me yet another reason to drop him a line in the nearish future. Seems like you're pretty stuffed with work ATM, Eris, so worry not, it will likely be at least a couple months before I come a-begging. ;)

[Linguica]

I have a minor suggestion for the western puzzle:

Spoiler

The steps to get out of the pit area should all be in place before you jump in, and the stair should lower itself when you jump in to trap you. This would embolden players to actually go down there, since they wouldn't be able to recognize it was a forced-trap area and thereby avoid it, and you sort of need to go down there to figure out the mechanic.

 

To add onto that, you should make the sound for the raising / lowering of the tutorial candle pillars audible. I apparently walked over the raising-candle once but I didn't even notice because I didn't hear anything, and I assumed that I had broken progression somehow and was "soft locked" to use the term all the kids use. If you had arranged the dummy sectors so that I could *hear* that one when I tripped it, it would have clicked with me, I think.

 

[scifista42]

26 minutes ago, Linguica said:

I have a minor suggestion for the western puzzle:

  Reveal hidden contents

The steps to get out of the pit area should all be in place before you jump in, and the stair should lower itself when you jump in to trap you. This would embolden players to actually go down there, since they wouldn't be able to recognize it was a forced-trap area and thereby avoid it, and you sort of need to go down there to figure out the mechanic.

 

To add onto that, you should make the sound for the raising / lowering of the tutorial candle pillars audible. I apparently walked over the raising-candle once but I didn't even notice because I didn't hear anything, and I assumed that I had broken progression somehow and was "soft locked" to use the term all the kids use. If you had arranged the dummy sectors so that I could *hear* that one when I tripped it, it would have clicked with me, I think.

I disagree about the first part.

Spoiler

It's a good thing that the player can predict a forced trap so that he can temporarily avoid it and explore other areas first, instead of suddenly becoming trapped and forced to deal with it before once again being able to explore other areas.

 

[NinjaLiquidator]

The western 2 switches seem to do nothing - anyway the puzzle is non-mandatory, right? All puzzles I had to do was the arrow one, the raising platforms one, and the teleporting maze one to make raise bridge to central island. There was puzzle with looking for symbols and pass the portals, and after that you pass the guilottine and go to next map. Looks cool but dont know what I am supposed to do here. Is it the end?

[Jimmy]

I got solutions for anyone wanting them. Thanks to everybody on Twitch chat and Discord who figured these out before me. :P I just figured I'd formalise 'em.

 

Absolutely do not open this spoiler if you intend to finish this map for yourself.

 

I haven't provided a solution for the final puzzle in the center because it's pretty straightforward and you can solve it purely with the power of your common sense (and/or savescumming :P).

 

Spoiler

Puzzle 1: The Portraits (located E)

Spoiler

 

The switch is surrounded by colored barriers. Running through the destroyed portrait frames will raise the color barrier denoted on the side that's higher, and lower the color barrier denoted on the side that's lower. You can approach the frames from any angle but they will have the same effect. You want one of the three chains of barriers to be completely lowered in order to reach the wooden switch.

 

First, keep in mind the two frames that just use blue and light grey. These two frames are red herrings, somewhat; blue is only used for one of the barrier chains, along with light grey, so the two are mutually exclusive. You won't be able to approach the switch from the left-hand side.

 

You therefore want to lower RED, BROWN, LIGHT GREY and DARK GREY, in (more or less) that order. You can basically beat this puzzle in four strokes from the outset, so it might in fact be the easiest one.

 

 

 

Puzzle 2: The Maze (located NE)

Spoiler

 

In order to reach this puzzle, you'll need to find the marble lion face in the north-east corner; this will lower a wall that will allow you to step into the area. If you have keen enough eyes, the fence above this switch is out of alignment - this is presumably a clue and not a map error. :P

 

As you step into the area, you'll see a grey-and-green rocky building with an entrance into a maze on a 5x5 grid, that appears to go nowhere. You might wish to note down the maze's layout nonetheless, as well as take note of the 4 colored torches seen in the center.

 

[GREEN] [BLUE]

[RED] [RED]

 

The critical point of interest that will get you to the skull switch is the almost-identical building in the opposite corner of this area. The orientation of the torches is:

 

[BLUE] [GREEN]

[RED] [RED]

 

The maze layout is therefore identical to the first building's, but mirrored. The walls have also been replaced with invisible teleporter lines, so you'll have to move carefully. Here's how you should traverse this maze:

 

2 UP, 1 LEFT, 1 DOWN, 1 LEFT, 3 UP, 2 RIGHT, 1 DOWN, 2 RIGHT, 1 UP, 1 LEFT, 1 UP, 1 RIGHT.

 

Ascend the rubble stairs, then the stairs on the marble platform, then cut across the grey platform and head down the steps to the skull switch.

 

 

 

Puzzle 3: The Town (located N)

Spoiler

 

You'll want to raise a marble platform to the skull switch in the large fountain structure at the far north. Facing the switch while standing on the large eye on the floor, turn right and go up the steps and you'll find a black arrow.

 

1. Follow the exact direction of the arrow into the village. There'll be a few trees in your way but you'll come to a building that on the side you're facing has a couple of vertical rivets in the wood. Press use here. Another arrow will appear behind you. Follow it.

 

2. This arrow does not appear to point to anything in particular, but simply hit use on the building between the two rightmost candelabras. Another arrow will appear.

 

3. Go up the steps. A large wooden pillar will have appeared. Simply press use on the side facing you. Another arrow will appear.

 

4. Head down towards the lake. Go up the large steps, then past the large brown tree until you come to another building. On the square of wood that looks darker than its neighbor, press use. Another arrow will appear.

 

5. Head in the arrow's direction past the same tree, past the green torch on the wooden pillar, and press use against the wooden square next to the large tree (there is a green marble pedestal above it). Another arrow will appear.

 

6. Again head past another tree, and press use against the side facing you of the large wooden support with the green torch on it. Another arrow will appear, along with a wooden step leading into a large grid of wooden pillars with green pedestals. Head into this area.

 

7. Follow the stony path until you get into the center of the grid. The pillar you want to press use on is just in front of you and has a tall marble pedestal on top of it, instead of a short one. Alternatively, face the ladder, then turn 45º to the right. Press use on the inward-facing side of the wooden pillar.

 

8. A metal switch will raise up in front of you. Press it, then head back to the fountain to hit the wooden skull switch there.

 

 

 

Puzzle 4: The Graves (located W)

Spoiler

 

The points of interest here are the gravestones in the yellow cobblestone pits. These have piles of stones stacked at varying heights, 1-4.

 

Only five of these grave sites are important to you - scope out the ones that have either a black or blue banner beside them, as well as the series of banners in the center of this area that occurs in the order BLUE BLACK BLUE BLACK BLUE. The sites with a destroyed banner support beside them are not important to the puzzle - this includes a site of two graves located in a pit towards the south. One of the steps that gets you out of this pit is raised by running across the grave with 2 stacked stones, and you must do this three times in order to "finish" the staircase and get out of the pit. Running over the grave with 1 stone will lower the step back to ground level. Consider this the "training pit", since it's not integral to solving the puzzle but teaches you how the graves operate.

 

In the extreme western corner you'll find two metal switches, and the skull switch required to solve the puzzle. The graves around it are unimportant. The metal switch on the left will appear to raise a platform up to the skull switch; the other will lower it back to ground level. This is actually a set of stairs that needs to be constructed by crossing the graves with 2 stacked stones at five of the other sites.

 

Again, remember BLUE BLACK BLUE BLACK BLUE. We want to run over the graves this number of times at each site in order to correctly build the staircase:

BLUE "A": 5 TIMES.

BLACK "A": 4 TIMES.

BLUE "B": 3 TIMES.

BLACK "B": 2 TIMES.

BLUE "C": 1 TIME.

 

The next step is figuring out which site corresponds to which step on the staircase. The order I'm going to go in is in terms of site proximity, rather than step order.

 

1. First you'll want to visit BLUE site "A", the site closest to the skull switch (4 graves - this number isn't important). Run over the grave with 2 stacked stones 5 TIMES.

2. The next closest site is BLUE site "B" (3 graves). Since our next BLUE is the third step in the puzzle, you'll want to run over the grave with 2 stones 3 TIMES.

3. The next closest site is BLUE site "C" (3 graves). Since it's the final BLUE in the sequence, run over the grave with 2 stones 1 TIME.

4. The next closest site is BLACK site "A" (4 graves), and it's the one located on the hill. This is our first black in the sequence so run over the grave with 2 stones 4 TIMES.

5. The last site is BLACK site "B" (2 graves). It's the second BLACK in the sequence, so run over the grave with 2 stones 2 TIMES.

 

Once you've done this, head back to the western corner and hit the metal switch on the left. This will build the staircase to the skull switch for you.

 

If you've done it right, you'll be able to head up the steps and hit the switch immediately. If you've built the staircase incorrectly, locate which step(s) is/are incorrect, hit the right-hand metal switch to set the stairs back to ground level, and "reset" the problematic steps by running over the grave with 1 stone at the corresponding site, then you can run over the 2 stacked stone graves at that site the correct number of times. Hit the left-hand metal switch to rebuild the staircase, and if it's still not built properly, repeat these corrective steps as necessary.

 

 

 

Puzzle 5: The Castle (located SW)

Spoiler

 

Locate the smashed wall in the grey castle to the southwest and you'll find yourself in a courtyard with colored strips littering the ground.

 

Pairs of switches are located at various sides of the courtyard surrounded by the same colors of the strips they correspond to - the left-hand switch will raise the strips a little, the right-hand switch will reset them back to ground level.

 

This area involves no small amount of platforming, with at least some SR40 required, so you'll need to be nimble, and probably savescum to save frustration. You must use the green platforms as the means to traverse between colors, since you won't be able to cross between one color and a higher-raised color.

 

1. Hit the BLUE left-hand switch ONCE.

2. Hit the BEIGE left-hand switch TWICE.

3. Platform across the strips and ascend to the RED switches. Hit the left-hand one TWICE.

4. Ascend to the GREY switches. Hit the left-hand one TWICE.

5. Go back to the RED switches, and hit the left-hand one ONCE.

6. Drop back down to the ground. Hit the BLUE left-hand switch TWICE to raise the blue strips up two more steps. BEIGE now needs to be reset with the right-hand switch, and then needs to go up ONCE with the left-hand switch.

7. Make your way back to GREY and hit the left-hand switch ONCE again. All the strips should now be at their highest elevation save for BEIGE.

8. Cross all the strips to the wooden ledge on the far side.

 

Make your way over the parapets, drop down carefully to the wooden ledge below you (if you fall back to ground level you'll have to do this all over again!), and then ascend the stairs to the skull switch.

 

 

 

Puzzle 6: The Islands (located S)

Spoiler

 

At the south you'll see six large islands plastered with marble skull switches. You only need to flip one of these to solve the entire puzzle. Finding the right one basically is the puzzle.

 

At the edge of the brown lake you'll find a small patch of land with some strange white and brown shapes on it. This set of shapes is more or less identical to a much larger area further north. If you make your way to the "sawmill" building (found in the middle of the map, to the east of the central puzzle area), you'll have to navigate through some trees until you come to a rocky maze of star shapes. In the heart of this maze is a miniature of the islands you find at the far south in the brown lake. Notice how one of the islands (the three-layered one furthest to the left) is slightly illuminated. Look very closely at this and you'll see a tiny skull embedded in the second layer of this miniature island. That's where the skull switch you need to flip is.

 

Heading back to the islands, find the three-layered island furthest to the left, and make your way up three of the brown steps to the second layer of switches. Move to the left along the island and stop at the second corner you come to. The switch is split in two by this corner, and you need to hit the left-hand side of the switch in order to trigger it and solve the puzzle.

 

 

 

[rehelekretep]

On 16/08/2017 at 6:07 PM, Steve D said:

I stopped in to look around, but as you're aware, my interest in puzzles is so low as to be subterranean. Indeed, a team of scientists at MIT has used near-magical technology to locate that interest as just outside the earth's core. ;D But nonetheless, I enjoyed 15 minutes or so of poking around with my jaw agape at the vistas.

 

I used GZDoom 3.1, but even with a Core i7 and a GTX 1060 I bought for Doom 2016, I still had some stuttering, so a little finger-wag at you for that, young man. ;)

 

Even though it's not my thing, I love that you're pushing the boundaries, Dobu. Please don't stop.

 

And as for Eris, well, he gave me yet another reason to drop him a line in the nearish future. Seems like you're pretty stuffed with work ATM, Eris, so worry not, it will likely be at least a couple months before I come a-begging. ;)

haha came in here to post the same sentiments as Steve. against my better nature i fired this up and promptly gave up after 30 minutes poking around at the colour-coded platforming section within the castle - i dont like puzzle games and this didnt change my mind. but as you can see plently of other people loved it so youre doing something right, keep it up!

[dobu gabu maru]

I think I've received enough feedback that I'll probably send this over to /idgames soon. I'm only gonna fix the SR50 jumping thing for the eastern section, I think.

 

13 hours ago, NinjaLiquidator said:

Is it the end?

Yup.

 

On 8/16/2017 at 11:21 AM, antares031 said:

Maybe this is a minor flaw, but the texture alignment of linedef 22097 and 22098 should be corrected.

Thanks!!! You have no idea how much errors like these bug me when I replay a map and spot them. Since I did all the ceiling adjustments last, a lot of the lower unpegged stuff got messed up, but I couldn't remember which lines did or did not have them.

 

On 8/16/2017 at 1:16 PM, Linguica said:

I have a minor suggestion for the western puzzle

This isn't a bad idea, but I intentionally left a step down for people to be curious about why it looks like an inescapable pit so that they'll hop in. Plus I'm trying to keep the map as static as possible. Good call on the sound trigger though—since I played in Zdoom this was something I completely overlooked until dew mentioned it for the northern section.

 

On 8/16/2017 at 4:36 AM, Alfonzo said:

It looks like you had some fun cooking up an allegory, here.

No symbology here, at least nothing intentional... I mainly just like creating archaic societies and imagining what their hierarchy & daily life would've been like. Then again, I also might have an anti-authority/anti-patriarchy/anti-Abrahamic muse whispering in the back of my head that I haven't fully acknowledged ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited August 17, 2017 by dobu gabu maru

[Big Ol Billy]

Late to the party, but this deserves a bump anyway. Love it, though I suck at puzzles--I'm two hours in and have 4 of the main puzzles solved (enough to exit). Raising/lowering the colored platforms was my favorite so far, still have to figure out the arrow on the ground and skull islands, which have really stumped me. Btw I played on PrBoom+ on my MacBook and it ran great (GzDoom was basically unplayable though, like watching a slideshow if I looked at the middle of the map).

 

I p much second all the superlatives--great concept, atmosphere, visuals, music. Maybe the most impressive aspect to me is the creative use of stock textures. And overall I can't emphasize enough how absorbing an experience it is.

 

Curious what your inspiration was and to what extent there's a precedent for this kind of thing. Cyber Dreams is the only thing I've played that might qualify as a puzzle wad, though I vaguely remember a thread for a puzzle-oriented CP some months ago. Anyway, I'm kinda hungry for more now!

 

 

 

 

[Katamori]

Hope it's not necrodump but it was surprisingly hard to find again. Search engines don't see the thread. Whatever...

 

I'm speechless.

Only you can put out such an insane stuff, but I'm also happy that you've made what I rarely dared even to attempt: a map without monsters.

 

Turned out I suck at puzzles, which is kinda worrying because it may imply my ability to solve problems is way more limited than I expected, but still, your puzzles are nice.

The visuals are gorgeous, as well as the music.

Overall it's an experience I've been waiting for since ages, so thanks for doing it! However long you've worked on it, was worth.

[Tristan]

I finally played it last week, latest GZDoom runs this at a relatively smooth 15-20fps in most places for me. Seeing the screenshots and wandering around for a bit, I knew this was something where I could be proud about the fact I was involved in a small way through the music.. but it never really sunk in until I played the whole map, immersed in this world for over an hour.

 

Now, like Katamori, I too am speechless.

[dobu gabu maru]

3 hours ago, Katamori said:

Hope it's not necrodump but it was surprisingly hard to find again.

Yeah, sorry about this—it should've been on /idgames like... 3 months ago, but I've been delaying work on some bonus stuff I wanted to make for the release.

 

Anyway, here is the final version of the wad for now (RC2). This only includes really minor changes, like making the hints to the west and the south more "obvious", adding the sound trigger for the stairs in the pit, and fixing an incorrect territorial flag for the lore (lol). It's not worth a download if you've already played through the map—just wait for the final release.

 

 

[Dedalus 80]

I would play it but my PC is frying :|

Is anyone doing a playthrough of it?

[dobu gabu maru]

 

Hey! The Given is now on /idgames! Hooray!

 

The most significant addition to the official /idgames version is the inclusion of a new wad: The Given (Low Detail)! I’ve removed around 50% of the lines from the original map while keeping it mostly intact, so hopefully more people will have a chance to play it without an agonizing framerate. The second big addition is a short story you’ll find buried within the wad itself, which will explain a bit of the lore behind Occula. Thanks once again to all the playtesters that provided feedback, and to everyone for giving the wad a shot!

[Beed28]

I just beat it. It took me a while to figure out the puzzles, and it took me an hour and an half of playtime, oddly enough (according to my total time on the automap at the end).

 

Spoiler

That ending, though.

 

Also, my only gripe, is I can't seem to fit through this gap here (in GZDoom, at least), but otherwise, good work! Was quite different from what you would normally see in a Doom wad. :)