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Jon

WadC 2.2 released

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version 2.2 is finally available

 

https://github.com/jmtd/wadc/releases/tag/v2.2 link to  ZIP (627 KB) and source files

 

release notes: https://github.com/jmtd/wadc/blob/master/doc/release_notes.adoc#2-2 

 

I guess the headline feature is having experimental filled sectors in the drawing pane. Demo

 

5a0b612f5a402_uzC2Ej7-Imgur.png.a439c519f15815a7eb0354c30457ebb5.png

 

 

There's also a new Preferences scheme and a new UI for settings preferences meaning wadc.cfg is deprecated

 

I've also tried to improve the documentation and there's a much more extensive gallery of the examples

https://redmars.org/wadc/examples/

 

Two new large programs for 2.2

 

Edited by Jon

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Great job - very impressive! I hope to get into this sometime soon, and see what it can do.

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I wonder if WadC can be embedded into map editors via plug-ins. It would make it more accessible to usual editors.

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11 hours ago, printz said:

I wonder if WadC can be embedded into map editors via plug-ins. It would make it more accessible to usual editors.

That's funny - I recently suggested exactly the same thing! I was thinking it could be somewhere between a map editor, and Oblige, and could be used to "make an interesting room here". WadC takes mathematical formulas and statements, and knows how to turn those into completed complex shapes. A map editor could maybe provide the full WadC code window, or it could have a PreDef/random formula generator type thing which could get you started on making your own WadC formulas, with instant visual feedback - bridging the gap between mapping and programming, propelling WadC to mainstream usage.

 

I was also thinking that, as an Oblige plugin, WadC could assist Oblige in creating some super-interesting beautiful rooms. Oblige knows that it needs a room of a certain size, with a specific number of exits. This, coupled with some Oblige seed-generated variant data could be all the info WadC needs to make twisting, spiralling staircases, geometrically interesting alien tech bases, elaborate temple entrances, etc. In this manner, each program plays to its strengths.

 

Of course, WadC is fascinating on its own, from what I've seen - I definitely need to spend more time on it.

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I'm slipping the release of WadC a little. There's some changes that I'm making to the shared libraries as a result of working on HUMP.  Some of the UI changes I made already appear to look terrible on Linux and I need to resolve that. This might eventually be the last release of WadC by me.

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"HUMP"? Heh.

Re last release: Do you have someone in mind to take over? Why the last release? (just curious).

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3 hours ago, kb1 said:

"HUMP"? Heh.

 

Heretic Upstart Mapping Project. Give it a look when it's done, it should be a lot of fun!

 

3 hours ago, kb1 said:

Re last release: Do you have someone in mind to take over? Why the last release? (just curious).

 

Nobody, basically anybody who was interested could. Last because I think if I want to take the ideas further, I need to design a new language, and I think I might enjoy that more.

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Ah, that does look fun!

 

Re: designing a new language: That's something I've been also wanting to do for a long time. I think it stems from 2 places: #1 Frustration with writing the same basic structures over and over in projects, the long way, and dealing with the deficiencies therein, inherent in just about any language you choose. And #2: It just seems like a massive, but logical and fun challenge. But, for it to be really good takes a LOT of work. Good luck! From what I've seen so far, you are capable.

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I've just built and pushed a release candidate RC1 for WadC 2.2

 

https://redmars.org/wadc/wadc-2.2rc1.jar (just the JAR program, 177K)

https://redmars.org/wadc/wadc-2.2rc1-bin.zip (the whole distribution, docs, examples, etc. 7.3M)

 

Various library additions and changes made during the development of my HUMP map

The HUMP map itself as a new example

 

as before, the new examples gallery is worth a look e.g.

 

https://redmars.org/wadc/examples/#_birds_wl

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question:

is there any way to merge geometry like how doom builder does? like let's say i draw 2 intersecting linedefs, at least by default it doesnt add a vertex at the intersection. unless i wrote that by hand in the .wl file. or if i draw two linedefs exactly in the same spot, they dont merge

 

is there no way to do this? or am i missing something

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WadC will split/merge parallel linedefs only if they partially overlap and are perfectly aligned to the x or y axis. For other situations you either need to adjust your drawer to draw two short linedefs instead of one long one (to force a vertex in between) or something more complicated involving a data structure .

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Just now, StevenC21 said:

Question: Why would I use this instead of, say, GZDoom Builder, or @anotak's Doom Builder X?

 

They are completely different and you could achieve completely different things with them. Unless you are a programmer WadC is probably not for you.

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@Jon Can you explain the difference please? This just seems like a code-based level editor. I'm not trashing it, I just don't see its purpose.

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If you can confirm you've looked at the examples linked above first, and the description on the homepage linked above, I'll then spend the time to try and explain it.

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Ok.

 

so we all know the kind of things you can achieve with a traditional editor. Trying to achieve the same with WadC is difficult, because it's not great or fast to churn out arbitrary lines.

 

what WadC is good for is for generating structures that would be a serious pain in the ass to build by hand: very intricate or repetitive structures, like fractals etc.

 

the challenge is trying to make an *interesting* map from things like that, because repetition and patterns on their own would not be interesting to play.

 

the other area of interest is with randomness. For example I'm looking at writing some rules for various dungeon room shapes and then using randomness to generate a map of such rooms interconnected. Would it be interesting to play? We'll see. When I've finished I could generate a huge number of levels like that, then jump in , warp or clip around, and see if there are any particularly interesting bits; then figure out which algorithm and seed generated the interesting bits, and tweak, cut, combine etc and try again. Kind of like Brian Eno approach to algorithmic music, "gardening" some stuff: controlling initial conditions and leaving other stuff to chance.

 

finally it can do the heavy lifting for some wad effects that are really awkward to do by hand. Write the code once  for an intricate poly object, like a door, and reuse it as often as you like.  Or, I have a library that makes it really easy to apply boom 242 water to all sectors you draw. Set a global "water level" and the code does the rest (including: doing nothing if your sectors are all above the water level). My unfinished sewer level in the "beta" directory has (from the top of my head) thousands of control sectors.

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So... could you do part of the level in this, and transfer over into a traditional editor?

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31 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

So... could you do part of the level in this, and transfer over into a traditional editor?

 Yes that's possible, at least one-time. Trickier would be to regenerate and replace some stuff via WadC, but that'd depend on how much work you'd spent on it in the other editor.

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I remember MAP32: Hexagon in the 10 Sectors wad was designed in WadC. It was one of my favorite maps in 10 sectors and one of my most favorite maps to this day. I think the author went on to develop the Cube and Cube 2 engines if I am not mistaken. Thanks Jon for continuing in Aardappel legacy.

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Steven heres some 2 things ive done with it that would be pretty inconvenient to do in a traditional editor. (i did some touching up after in DBX but the core of the geometry was done with wadc)

 

etrn213.png

 

etrn215.png

 

 

i've been exploring making my own scripting thing as part of a doom builder plugin. i wanted to explore how wadc did things and if there's any way for me to have some interoperability between the two (unfortunately it's looking like it's unlikely, bc of how DB is architected)

 

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Very cool! Please consider throwing any interesting experiment maps at me and I'd add them to the examples directory :)

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@Jon While I was over at the WadC website I found out that I could not download any of these wads. birds, church, don, fractal, garden, laby, square. I know that you can create them yourself with the editor but those links are dead.

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16 hours ago, Halfblind said:

@Jon While I was over at the WadC website I found out that I could not download any of these wads. birds, church, don, fractal, garden, laby, square. I know that you can create them yourself with the editor but those links are dead.

 

Thanks for letting me know: I've fixed that (and need to more permanently fix my generation script)

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Just a quick question, Is there a tool that can convert a Doom, Heretic or Hexen map into a script usable by WadC? I build all my maps visually with Doom Builder and I want to know what they look like translated visually into WadC script language.

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A bit like decompilers that generate source code from compiled programs, the output is unlikely to be very legible to humans.

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I’ve been dusting off a WadC map I started in 2006. I’ve gone back over the functions I wrote and extracted their “api”, and built alternatives that are very simple (just box rooms etc). I’ve then had a go at trying to finish the layout. It’s muxh faster trying alternatives this way without getting bogged down in detailing.

 

and when I fancy doing detailing I go back to the detailed functions and tweak them; so long as they (eventually) match the api it will be drop in replacement. The detail level is truly insane, mostly due to 242 control sectors: I think I hit 2000 control sectors for a couple of lengths of corridor. There’s no way I’d be able to do that in a traditional editor. I’m wondering if I’ll hit some limits even in prboom etc eventually 

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11 hours ago, Jon said:

I’ve been dusting off a WadC map I started in 2006. I’ve gone back over the functions I wrote and extracted their “api”, and built alternatives that are very simple (just box rooms etc). I’ve then had a go at trying to finish the layout. It’s muxh faster trying alternatives this way without getting bogged down in detailing.

 

and when I fancy doing detailing I go back to the detailed functions and tweak them; so long as they (eventually) match the api it will be drop in replacement. The detail level is truly insane, mostly due to 242 control sectors: I think I hit 2000 control sectors for a couple of lengths of corridor. There’s no way I’d be able to do that in a traditional editor. I’m wondering if I’ll hit some limits even in prboom etc eventually 

Oh, please, please release a demo map!

 

You know, I would love to take something like a Mandelbrot generator, and somehow feed its output into a WadC function generator, to make some truly abstract, twisty, curvy, crazy looking levels with awesome spirals in all dimensions, with weird super detailed pillars, lifts, floor patterns, etc. Don't know how, but it'd be neat to try.

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