Heretic Upstart Mapping Project [Community Project]

I've started my map and I was very surprised how few assets that Heretic uses, there must be less than 100 wall textures! The added sector effects and sound things are all very helpful. Raven sure knew how to do a lot with not much (compared to how many textures and decorative things are in Doom). I have never messed with any of Hexen's assets but I'd imagine that that game has significantly more of everything compared to Heretic.

 

I believe that in the first post you said that this is being made for Shadow of the Serpent Riders, right? Because after looking at my copy of the .wad again I noticed that I somehow ended up with the original release that only had three episodes. Will that cause problems when integrating the map into the project?

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22 minutes ago, Skeletonpatch said:

there must be less than 100 wall textures

99 textures,66 flats lol.

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18 minutes ago, Cacowad said:

@Skeletonpatch no, there should be no problem

Ok, good. Thank you!

 

1 hour ago, SOSU said:

99 textures,66 flats lol.

I was expecting to be wrong about that!

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Some pics taken few minutes ago on heretic+ source port with dosbox, it works with some bugs here and there on that port too!

hereticp_000.png.d82e0d6c379738f1dfc46e9d1f291dc7.pnghereticp_001.png.9825f25bf1f3c88df8869aef54b07d24.pnghereticp_002.png.17857119b2048f501f443ebb99aaf301.png

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10 hours ago, Skeletonpatch said:

this is being made for Shadow of the Serpent Riders, right? Because after looking at my copy of the .wad again I noticed that I somehow ended up with the original release that only had three episodes. Will that cause problems when integrating the map into the project?

As cacowad said, this won't be a problem. I believe they use the same assets, just with some new episodes added on.

 

@Walter confetti Looking good man!

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@Skeletonpatch

Between v1.0 and v1.2 (SotSR is v1.3) the SAINT texture was given a little more contrast.  It's the same texture though, just touched up a little.  The firemace randomization was also changed a little (it originally spawned monsters on the unused spots in v1.0).  There might also be some demo desync issues in the game behavior between earlier and later versions but I'm uncertain of the exact causes of any that aren't related to the firemace change.

 

In short, maps made for the early versions, if they're strictly maps (and not using HHE and such) should in most cases be okay in later versions, especially if you're using a port to test them anyway, but if you want to be 100% sure, you're best off to patch your version up, especially if you're putting firemace spots in.  The extra two episodes are a free upgrade so outside of the very small number of older mods/tools that require the old version, there's little reason not to patch to the v1.3 Heretic.

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Here are some quick screenshots of my WIP map, any input is welcome:

 

Spoiler

59b996390ed9b_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-32-18.173R2787.jpg.5ae1021c04d9e58c58fac3c0fd8269e7.jpg

 

It's a sort of prison in the ocean type of thing, I'm trying to make this as simple as possible. The circle in the middle is the play area and if you should leave it you get teleported into a small chamber that is meant to simulate drowning as if you can't swim and just sunk past an underwater shelf. I surrounded the outer edge of the play area with waterfall sound effects to help let players know that they are getting too close. I hate invisible walls so I thought this was a more creative way to restrict the player's movement.

 

Here's a closer look at the play area so far:

59b997dc31f6c_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-37-52.971R2787.jpg.5f43d925fdf002911df3c058f2da60dc.jpg

The topmost building is the prison cell block, the lower building is a church, I haven't decided what the middle is going to be yet and I'll probably add one or two more buildings.

 

Here are some visuals of the church exterior and interior:

59b997e19157b_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-38-51.196R2787.jpg.79b3923202f65fd4316c7118a53a375c.jpg59b997e5907da_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-39-51.838R2787.jpg.8936ccec0652f9e912d8cb88e9e111b3.jpg

 

Here's the exterior of the cell block:

59b997e2d4b6a_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-39-04.837R2787.jpg.c619a9fba0cc9916fb2e587efcfa40aa.jpg

I couldn't get a good looking screenshot of the interior.

 

Here's a closeup of the surrounding islands outside the play area:

59b999d790aaa_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1314-49-16.653R2787.jpg.fbdb9ceee6bbcf3d410bd86486cbe169.jpg

These islands were added because you could see the skybox tiling vertically in some places. They are not detailed and are not going to serve any gameplay purpose. Unfortunately this means that I can't include the Wings of Wrath in this map unless I significantly restructure the layout and make the map much larger, which I'm not doing.

 

This map is meant to be one of the first maps in an episode, with a simple layout and relatively short playtime.

I haven't planned out the layout of the map in any way, I'm just making it up as I go along. Does this look good so far? I haven't placed many items or monsters yet due to my desire to let the final layout dictate what happens.

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Looking awesome Skeletonpatch! I'll make you a text channel in the discord

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@riderr3 I posted a demo and some feedback on your discord channel, should i also post it here?

 

Edited by Cacowad

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@Impie you got a suggestion for your map, with regards to the starting area:

 

"I would shift the carpet over slightly so it doesn't go to the very edges of the stairs, leaving a wooden area of about 8-16 units on either side of the steps."

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1 minute ago, HexenMapper said:

@Impie you got a suggestion for your map, with regards to the starting area:

 

"I would shift the carpet over slightly so it doesn't go to the very edges of the stairs, leaving a wooden area of about 8-16 units on either side of the steps."

So it looks more like a rug, or a line of carpet down the stairs, instead of the entire staircase just being carpet?

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28 minutes ago, Phade102 said:

So it looks more like a rug, or a line of carpet down the stairs, instead of the entire staircase just being carpet?

I think that's the idea yeah. It was just a suggestion I thought I'd pass on.

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I posted some more screenshots on Discord, I figured it would be a good idea to repost them here for the benefit of those not on Discord:

Spoiler

It's just the exit:

59bb488b47732_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1419-32-24.588R2787.jpg.eaa4966508ecedef24d5dc5a65943eac.jpg

59bb488d0a0a5_IslandPrisoninHeretic(editarea)at2017_09.1419-32-46.987R2787.jpg.eef18177322c5ad7ed109507941bade3.jpg

 

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13 hours ago, HexenMapper said:

@Impie you got a suggestion for your map, with regards to the starting area:

 

"I would shift the carpet over slightly so it doesn't go to the very edges of the stairs, leaving a wooden area of about 8-16 units on either side of the steps."

I like the idea but I think the stairs would move weird in vanilla ports. The carpeted and non-carpeted sectors would all have to be tagged, and I noticed when you have lots of moving sectors moving together in certain ports they don't move simultaneously as a unit. Unless I'm just smoking crack, in which case I'll probably do it and see if it looks all right. I remember trying something like this in the past and the sectors didn't move right.

Edited by Impie

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@Impie Yep I thought this might be an issue. No worries, I think it looks fine as-is. Its usually quite realistic to have fully carpeted stairs and I don't think the guy who made the comment realized the stairs all move and that it needs to work on limit removing vanilla :)

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3 hours ago, HexenMapper said:

@Impie Yep I thought this might be an issue. No worries, I think it looks fine as-is. Its usually quite realistic to have fully carpeted stairs and I don't think the guy who made the comment realized the stairs all move and that it needs to work on limit removing vanilla :)

No I didn't. I thought those were stationary stairs (kind of hard to tell from a single screenshot, heh). Still, it works either way.

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On 31.08.2017 at 5:11 AM, HexenMapper said:

 

Here's the demo, Its pretty short but I will record a few others after work, as well as some for the second map 

 

 

Improved the "ceremony", added location-an arena for boss fights, but this fight may be circumvented. Now this level need the test.

 

To run fast is not necessary, interesting not to leave enemies behind alive. I hope the demo on the map will be updated to the finish line.

 

https://yadi.sk/d/-LigFdix3MvazG

 

The second level is to determine the name you need to pass it through. Tower is not the main part of the map, here the pools of water. They need to do is empty out

 

 

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Thanks @BeeWen, I will do another demo for you.

 

You can give the map a Russian name if you like :)

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I made a walkthrough of my map if any testers are having trouble solving it. It's a deceptively complex puzzle map, but there are some slight variations from the current version since I'm trying to make it vanilla compatible. But even if I get rid of all the special effects, I don't think vanilla compatibility is possible due to the map's size. So do you want to keep it in the running or cut it? I doubt separating the vanilla and advanced maps into different episodes is an option.

 

 

Spoiler

 

The main goal is finding the three keys to open the three doors in the music room. Each key is lost in an alternate dimension, the entrance to which is hidden somewhere in the house. When you enter the room with the three switches that reveal themselves, other switches are revealed in the rooms you just came from that will help you reach the portals. Desert realm is revealed via the fireplace (will probably change to a push switch in later versions), Water realm is accessed via the attic lab, Mire realm is at the end of the upstairs hallway. The staircase can be raised and lowered by toggling the stair switch.

 

Just upstairs is the clue for solving the puzzle in the switch room that gives you access to the Phoenix Rod, which will make your life MUCH easier! Pay less attention to the skulls' positions and more to the lengths of their nooses when figuring out the sequence.

 

There's a trick to beating the end boss as well, which I also showcase.

 

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2 hours ago, Impie said:

even if I get rid of all the special effects, I don't think vanilla compatibility is possible due to the map's size. So do you want to keep it in the running or cut it? 

I'm happy to keep it as it's a great map. Our target is zdoom so its not too much of a problem that it won't run in vanilla/limit removing. The vanilla/limit removing was mostly for the map limitations so people would be forced to work within vanilla heretic options. Korax is displeased by your failure to map within the limitations, mortal Submit your latest map file when you're done and provide a textfile and midi if you like (both optional), or choose a midi from heretic (but not E1M1)

 

I see you included a 24 second .ogg file with your wad - I would rather you chose a MIDI file (in fact I could probably write you one based on that loop but extended out to 2 or 3 min), ideally one that isn't a 20 second loop for a quite long exploration map :)

Edited by HexenMapper

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1 hour ago, HexenMapper said:

I would rather you chose a MIDI file (in fact I could probably write you one based on that loop but extended out to 2 or 3 min)

I wouldn't mind if you gave it a shot so we can see how it sounds. Else I'll just dig something up from the 'net.

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11 hours ago, Cacowad said:

@BeeWen

 

It was a blast to explore, i had a good time: maybe there are a little too much ammo and quartz flasks,i was flooding with both of those until the last fight, i'll try to providesome more feedback a bit later.

Thanks, but the demo does not run in Zdoom 2.8.1 How to solve this problem?

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@BeeWen

 

Here's a demo for your during the ceremony map. I got absolutely wrecked the first time through, and failed to record the demo, this is the second time through. I got a lot further and the balance felt very good. I played on skill 4 and it was nice and hard :) really cool map man, nice job.

 

Here's the demo (note I added _ where the spaces were in your filename - I'm not sure if spaces make a difference or not in the wad filename for playing demos)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4wc7ddw1tkxfutb/beewen2.lmp

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