Is armor pointless?

I have often wondered this. What does it do that health doesn't? Why give the player armor when you can just give him more medkits or health potions/powerups?

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Armor allows you to survive more attacks. With 100 hp you don't feel that safe yet (one revenant can almost kill you in one shot), but 100 hp + 100 armor gives a lot more confidence, even if it's of the green variety.

 

I guess you could achieve a similar effect by giving soulspheres all the time (or stacking health potions), but that would be kind of silly and\or less flexible.

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Just now, dew said:

I sometimes wonder if you even play this goddamn game

Well, the most precise description of my mind.

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set of quotes

 
11 minutes ago, esselfortium said:

No.

 

9 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

stopquotingimagesdumbass.jpg

 

6 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

I need to get more clever in order to avoid these clickbait threads.

 

6 minutes ago, dew said:

I sometimes wonder if you even play this goddamn game, ...

 

6 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Oh god, greatest comment ever on Armors.

 

4 minutes ago, an_mutt said:

...

you are an exceptional individual

 

 

Have y'all thought of actually providing some arguments to prove your point, or do you consider saying just "omg your so exceptionally stupid" to be enough?

Yeah, thought so. :]

Edited by bzzrak
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Yes technically armor is pointless. 100% health plus a Soul Sphere will keep you alive longer than 100% health plus a Green armor.

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Someone said that we should appreciate these kinds of questions. Let's play along.

 

Imagine that instead of having armor, we can have 300-400 HP. Wouldn't that be about the same? What are the benefits of distributing damage between two different counters, other than an obvious aesthetic one?

 

I've seen this conversation outside of Doom community, but I don't remember where it went.

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1 minute ago, Jaws In Space said:

Yes technically armor is pointless. 100% health plus a Soul Sphere will keep you alive longer than 100% health plus a Green armor.

But 200% health with no armor is the same as 100% health and 200% blue armor.

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Armor allows you to stay in the fight longer and make more mistakes before running for a health kit. Without armor, any mistake can be deady, and you have to play much more carefully.

 

If you wanted to provide a player with the same "tankiness" armor provides without placing any on the map, you have to litter the floor with health kits, just so the player can stay alive.

Edited by Archvile Hunter

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Geez.....having armor saved my life many times...

isn't that reason enough for not being pointless ladies and gentleman????

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3 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

Imagine that instead of having armor, we can have 300-400 HP. Wouldn't that be about the same? What are the benefits of distributing damage between two different counters, other than an obvious aesthetic one?

 

I've seen this conversation outside of Doom community, but I don't remember where it went.

I was thinking this is his point, just like Megasphere having 400 HP instead of 200 HP / 200 Armor, but still, we now have two separate counter for the designers to control difficulty, and to be honest, there are a third factor, which is absorption rate (33%/50%) in this control. BTW, I'm really interested in the conversation outside Doom on this topic although you couldn't find it.

Edited by GarrettChan
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5 minutes ago, bzzrak said:

set of quotes

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have y'all thought of actually providing some arguments to prove your point, or do you consider saying just "omg your so exceptionally stupid" to be enough?

Yeah, thought so. :]

For someone who claimed to have been playing Doom for such long time, it's seems odd to me how's that they still don't know the value of armor. 

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34 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

I have often wondered this. What does it do that health doesn't? Why give the player armor when you can just give him more medkits or health potions/powerups?

Here's a quote from Doom Wiki to answer your question.

 

Quote

The armor will absorb one third (1/3) of all damage received, rounded down, until it is fully depleted.

 

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24 minutes ago, Archvile Hunter said:

Armor allows you to stay in the fight longer and make more mistakes before running for a health kit. Without armor, any mistake can be deady, and you have to play much more carefully.

 

If you wanted to provide a player with the same "tankiness" armor provides without placing any on the map, you have to litter the floor with health kits, just so the player can stay alive.

The opposite should also be important, if not the defining point: You can have all the armour you want, but having 1% health still makes any damage (within unmodded Doom) instant death.

 

The point of armour is therefor not to be more health, but to be the RPG-equivalent "defense points". It makes you resistant to damage, but not impervious to it.

 

In deathmatch, this actually creates a weird meta strategy. Maps that have Blue armour (50% resist) can allow you to run around a map tanking hits while also allowing you to hoover up all the health, denying it to opponents. Thus it's typically why duel maps don't have blue armour, as it can make you insanely deadly.

Edited by Edward850
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There are some games built entirely around resource management. It can be fun. Having health plus two different types of armor, with only some varieties than can take the values above 100, gives players and map designers a little bit more space to play around with resource management than health would on its own.

 

Finding the sweet spot of complexity, where things are simple and intuitive but still interesting, is what good game design is all about, and I think Doom's health+armor system is pretty great in this regard.

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Why don't you play a game without armor and find out? Write up some DECORATE that'll make armor not appear on maps at all, such as using RandomSpawner.

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6 minutes ago, Voros said:

Why don't you play a game without armor and find out? Write up some DECORATE that'll make armor not appear on maps at all, such as using RandomSpawner.

Let's make a map without having armor bonuses or proper armor...

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20 minutes ago, Ichor said:

But 200% health with no armor is the same as 100% health and 200% blue armor.

In terms of pure numbers this is precisely correct at the time either the soulsphere or the blue armour is picked up. However: 200% health is just that, 200 hit points. You can't heal again until you've lost at least 100 of them, or find another "magic" health powerup that still works when you have more than the non-demonic health maximum.

 

200% blue armour on the other hand is effectively half damage / double health while the armour lasts, so if you keep your health topped up, which can be done with common health items, you still can take up to 400 damage before the armour runs out. The difference is probably psychological, but I distinctly prefer having 100 / 200 blue over 200 / 0.

 

Also as @rdwpa points out blue armour is a huge reduction in redscreen which means you are much less likely to become disoriented after a high damage.

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Just now, leodoom85 said:

Let's make a map without having armor bonuses or proper armor...

I guess Scythe Map21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27 and 28 fit the bill, IRC?

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Just now, GarrettChan said:

I guess Scythe Map21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27 and 28 fit the bill, IRC?

Oh....good point

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1 minute ago, GarrettChan said:

I guess Scythe Map21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 27 and 28 fit the bill, IRC?

 

Yeah and if anything they prove the benefit of armour? Especially the early E3 maps.

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