Can I use 3D models to create true 3D levels?

[hardcore_gamer]

Normally Doom can't have true 3D even with Gzdoom, since technically 3D bridges aren't actually real 3D. But I was wondering, since Gzdoom supports 3D models is it possible to use them to create actual 3D? Or can 3D models only be placed on the floor and ceiling the same as 2D sprites?

[diggedypomme]

If it's of any interest - this is what I have been playing with for a little while - a system with pre defined lines for multiple layouts, individually addressable and then arranged in a grid of 9 by 9, with a random generator to build a map. It then spawns in the 3d models for buildings, and then sets the appropriate linedefs to blocking. 

This was from a little while ago, so I have a bit more since then, and can give info on how it works if you want

 

 

[scifista42]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Normally Doom can't have true 3D even with Gzdoom, since technically 3D bridges aren't actually real 3D.

3D floors are arguably real 3D, as any 3D architecture can be constructed using them.

[esselfortium]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Normally Doom can't have true 3D even with Gzdoom, since technically 3D bridges aren't actually real 3D.

Excuse me?

[Da Werecat]

It's all an illusion, man. 3D is not real. In any game. I mean your screen is still 2D, right??

[Zanieon]

10 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

since technically 3D bridges aren't actually real 3D

I think only @Graf Zahl is allowed to say what "Technically" is 3D and what isn't in GZDoom.

[Dragonfly]

Okay people seem to be arguing over some bullshit about what is and is not 3D and not actually answering the question.

 

YOU CAN MAKE AN ENTIRE LEVEL IN A 3D MODEL

 

However, not without a lot of additional work. So to get a 3D model into GZDoom, you replace a sprite for an actor with your model, presumably MD3 or whatever.

 

Because you've replaced a sprite, that means the 3D model has either NO COLLISION or a 6-sided BOX COLLISION. What this means then, is you need to ensure the actor has no collision, then manually re-create the 3D model as a map AROUND the model itself, but do so in such a way that your terrain is not visible through the 3D model. This becomes more intense when you have multiple 3D elements, sloped floors / ceilings, so on and so forth.

 

The tl;dr of it is - do not do this unless your 3D model really is above and beyond what's possible in Doom normally, and then be willing to pump numerous hours into painstakingly recreating the terrain again in a more primitive doom format.

 

Screenshots below to prove I'm not talking shit and have done exactly this.

 

 

 

 

[Bauul]

3D Models are specifically to replace Sprites, AFAIK. So they will always have a rectangular boundary box that is locked to the orthagonal directions. If the only models you wanted to make we're perfectly rectangular, great, but otherwise you're rather limited.

[snapshot]

Guess not, You have to construct the collision manually using regular geometry below your 3D Model

 

English : Yes you can use a 3D Model for your level, But you will clip through it unless you build something below it to hold objects.

[ReX]

Another way to create blocking in (static) models is to use invisible bridge things. Sometimes, creating collision geometry using 3D sectors may not be practical, or it may be time-consuming - e.g., placing a model on one or more 3D sectors, and then adding 3D sectors for blocking geometry around a complex model. Invisible bridge things work well in such circumstances.

[ReX]

3 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

.... since Gzdoom supports 3D models is it possible to use them to create actual 3D? Or can 3D models only be placed on the floor and ceiling the same as 2D sprites?

3D models can, indeed, be used to create "actual 3D". However, the native blocking imposed by the DECORATE (or ZScript) definition will only work for cuboid or cylindrical models. Therefore, you'll need to use invisible 3D sectors or invisible bridge things for creating blocking in complex-shaped models.

 

3D models can be placed anywhere in playable space, not just floors and ceilings. Just give the actor the relevant attribute/flag in its definition.

[scifista42]

3 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Or can 3D models only be placed on the floor and ceiling the same as 2D sprites?

Things in a running Doom game have 3D coordinates. Things saved in map files have 2D coordinates in Doom map format, and can have their initial height above the floor specified in Hexen format and UDMF. Whether the thing's graphic is a sprite or a model is irrelevant in all of these cases.

[hardcore_gamer]

2 hours ago, scifista42 said:

Things in a running Doom game have 3D coordinates. Things saved in map files have 2D coordinates in Doom map format, and can have their initial height above the floor specified in Hexen format and UDMF. Whether the thing's graphic is a sprite or a model is irrelevant in all of these cases.

How do I do this?

[Endless]

Dont mind me, Im just passing by reading comments. Thx

[scifista42]

15 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

How do I do this?

Make sure your map is either in Hexen format or UDMF. Select a thing in the map and open its properties. One of the properties is called "Z height". That's the property I was talking about. Feel free to change its value to whatever you want. When the map will start, the thing will be spawned that many map units above the height of the floor in the sector they're in. Note that this doesn't work on player start things unless there's "UsePlayerStartZ" in the map's MAPINFO.

[hardcore_gamer]

2 hours ago, scifista42 said:

Make sure your map is either in Hexen format or UDMF. Select a thing in the map and open its properties. One of the properties is called "Z height". That's the property I was talking about. Feel free to change its value to whatever you want. When the map will start, the thing will be spawned that many map units above the height of the floor in the sector they're in. Note that this doesn't work on player start things unless there's "UsePlayerStartZ" in the map's MAPINFO.

Doesn't seem to work. I placed some candles down and wrote a number into the z field and nothing happened in-game.

[scifista42]

Candles are affected by gravity, so even if they spawn in mid-air, they then begin falling down and eventually fall all the way down to the floor. If you want things to stay in mid-air, you need to give them a NOGRAVITY flag in DECORATE.

[hardcore_gamer]

26 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

Candles are affected by gravity, so even if they spawn in mid-air, they then begin falling down and eventually fall all the way down to the floor. If you want things to stay in mid-air, you need to give them a NOGRAVITY flag in DECORATE.

 

Hmmmm interesting.

 

A question then: If I made a 3D model and gave it the nogravity flag, and then used it in a UDMF map, would it be possible to use the z gravity feature to create Doom 3 style 3D levels by using the 3D models as prefabs/props?

[snapshot]

But you will be limited, Collision for things in ZDoom is basically just cubes, you can't have accurate collision like that unless you put some invisible Bridge things as Rex suggested or Build something.

[Da Werecat]

This sounds completely backwards to me. Woudn't it be much easier to just use 3D floors or pick a better engine?

[hardcore_gamer]

1 minute ago, dmg_64 said:

But you will be limited, Collision for things in ZDoom is basically just cubes, you can't have accurate collision like that unless you put some invisible Bridge things as Rex suggested or Build something.

 

That doesn't sound like much of a problem honestly unless the 3D shape is very complex.

 

1 minute ago, Da Werecat said:

This sounds completely backwards to me. Woudn't it be much easier to just use 3D floors or pick a better engine?

Because it looks cool. I am currently using Brutal Doom 64 and Doom 3 textures to make a mod:

 

 

[scifista42]

Yes, but again, since the engine doesn't use the geometry of the models for collision detection, the models would need to be accompanied by (possibly invisible) actual map geometry for solid structures.

[snapshot]

Just now, hardcore_gamer said:

 

That doesn't sound like much of a problem honestly unless the 3D shape is very complex.

 

Sure, but don't expect every 3D shape to be a cube :P

[Da Werecat]

Maybe only if you use it for small-ish decorations. Kinda like Doom 3 itself did it - not all of its geometry is made of brushes.

[R1ck]

but ain't Total chaos is using Classic Doom Engine? how did the dev can come out fully 3d?

[snapshot]

It's not fully 3D, The weapons, monsters, items and decoration stuff (or I guess you could call them Static Meshes) are the only things that are 3D, The levels themselves are still not fully 3D.

[FantasmeDel'Esprit54]

No video game is truly 3D. Think about it, its on a flat screen

[hardcore_gamer]

12 minutes ago, FantasmeDel'Esprit54 said:

No video game is truly 3D. Think about it, its on a flat screen

VR games are real 3D since you can look around.

[FantasmeDel'Esprit54]

1 minute ago, hardcore_gamer said:

VR games are real 3D since you can look around.

Well its more like an illusian or a pipe dream

[Da Werecat]

25 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

VR games are real 3D since you can look around.

Two flat screens instead of one. Big deal.

[hardcore_gamer]

1 hour ago, Da Werecat said:

Two flat screens instead of one. Big deal.

My point was that the world actually FEELS 3D in that you can actually use your body/head to look around corners.