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superchargecacodemons800

Which map is better, Icon of Sin, Last Call, or The Gateway of Hell?

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Do you think the baphomet battle in Doom II, TNT Evilution, or The Plutonia Experiment is better?

 

In my opinion, Icon of Sin is the best because you get to the boss area without anything else, and just throw rockets into his exposed brain without any unfair parts. However, once you get all the ammo in the start, you can't go back to get anymore, because there is a teleporter to the boss area but not a teleporter back to the ammunition room.

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Just now, Nevander said:

I like Last Call because I feel like I am rushing to defeat the boss and save the day before something bad happens. Coupled with the badass music track. Also there's something satisfying about doing the voodoo doll puzzle flawlessly at full speed.

Actually, Last Call is worse than The Chasm of Doom II because the thing at the start is not fair! You got to the final map and are excited to be done, but you have to do that goddamn platform area, if you step wrong one you're telefrag'd and if you fall off you die!

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1 minute ago, superchargecacodemons799 said:

because the thing at the start is not fair!

Do you actually know where can you get the hints?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Nevander said:

the badass music track.

Funny enough... I always think this is one of the bad soundtracks. At first, yeah, I think this soundtrack is kind of standout and cool, but after listening to it for a long time, it sounds too loud to me. There are Vanguard Map05 and JPCP Map09 using this track, and I am biased to think these are not very good maps.

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Resuming this:

  • Icon of Sin - Start, get all the ammo that you can, climb to the switch and endure for the lift until you kill it...
  • Last Call - Nice prelude with a clue at the start of the level, building the climax by killing the last resistance until you reach the IoS...again...
  • Gateway of Hell - Some traps at the start before reaching the chaotic fight with the IoS and riding the lift once again... 

I gotta give credit for Last Call this time, even if it has that Metal track (one of my least favorites).

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I don't really think it's apples to oranges here.

 

Icon of Sin is just a map that introduces the final boss into the world of DOOM. 

 

The other two are essentially expansion packs that contained improved versions. It's like comparing a new trend flavor to vanilla ice cream - they are both ice cream, and the trend flavor will of course outsell the vanilla - but the vanilla was what introduced the concept of ice cream into the world.

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This is a very easy (last) call to make. Doom 2 and Plutonia have the obnoxious "shoot as the lift rides up then repeat" mechanic. Last Call only requires you to stand on the correct step to pump all your rockets. Not to mention there is an actual map before the whole IoS encounter which is quite good.

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Last Call is easily the best one, but it's also easy to run out of rockets at the end as the boss brain is difficult to hit.

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The hint to pass the platforming in Last Call is, if you take a look where you start, pretty easy to deduce (torches). Another story is to remember the patron, plus old vanilla automap doesn't show the incorrect platforms green, so it's up to your observation skills. Then that stuck Cyberdemon is just rude, anticlimactic. But the rest is all fine.

 

I had never done Icon of Sin legally, the lift is eww.

 

Finally, Gateway of Hell has been the most intense of the three, completely bearable, the little pit where the lift is provides full cover. The negative side is that it's impossible to do a 100% everything run in legal ways, but since it's an IoS map, I never really cared. Probably this one's my favourite.  

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Truth be told, I like none of those. IOS fights are something I'd rather avoid, because they're gimmicky in a way that I don't like. SoD has the best IOS fight of them all: No gimmicky shit, just a timer, lots of BFG frenzy, timer runs out, you kill that thing and you're done, after blasting away willy-nilly for almost 3 minutes. Nice and clean deal.

 

For the sake of actually giving an answer: I like doomII's IOS fight the most, because you can get it over with quickly, and kiss the map good-bye.

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46 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

SoD has the best IOS fight of them all

 

SoD?

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7 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Do you actually know where can you get the hints?

Doesn't make it entirely fair, because you die first, and then go looking for clues. The response will probably be "What's wrong with saving your game every minute?" but eh.

 

5 hours ago, superchargecacodemons799 said:

Into The Beast's Belly was composed by an idiot.

So are certain posts on this forum lately.

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6 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

Doesn't make it entirely fair

Yeah, I understand your point, and that why Mega Man games like to teach you the gimmick first, and then throw the dangerous ones to you, and this should be a standard for fair designs. Anyway, this is somewhat a TNT's style, which you know... meh... but at least it's fairer than mandatory secrets, I guess.

 

To be honest, it's difficult to tell what is fairness because we have different standards in different time. For example, back in the 90s, probably people would think Nightmare! is not fair, even the authors say so, but now, probably people would agree that Nightmare! is not that unfair.

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4 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Anyway, this is somewhat a TNT's style, which you know... meh... but at least it's fairer than mandatory secrets, I guess.

Well, if we're talking about something like an unmarked wall, especially in a wad where you don't expect it - yeah, maybe. Can create problems that you can't even savescum through.

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3 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

an unmarked wall

Yes. To be precise, I guess the word to describe that and the puzzle of Last Call is "not fun", and "not so fair" being the secondary adjective to me, but well, at least IDDT can semi-solve this mandatory secret problem unless you don't know it.

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Last Call easily due to the music and super-oldschool-style puzzle at the beginning, although I love well balanced IoS maps in general. The sense of urgency and test of aim and timing really appeals to me. The normal Doom2 IoS does have a great eerie tune, but the slime textures not matching and generally looking grimy and dark is kinda crappy. It should have been a vibrant hellish arena imo.

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9 hours ago, GarrettChan said:

Do you actually know where can you get the hints?

 

 

 

That's exactly why I vote for last call. I don't like icon maps per se, but that puzzle makes it stand out. And it felt really like an achievement when I got it the first time. The music is certainly another point.

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(filler post)

 

A very interesting IoS map is the one in Hell To Pay, you don't fight Romero's head, instead you have a timer, the level kinda breaks as you progress and there is a crazy room with teleporters that ruined my no-deaths spell. But the ending scene is really cool.

 

Also, agree that SoD's map 30 is one of the bests in between IoS maps, the same time is not that amusing as a regular map (from a personal view). 

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Last Call is a level I actually enjoy out of these 3 so I'd obviously pick last call.

 

If Hell To Pay was actually included in Final Doom like intended however I'd pick that one, absolutely smashing.

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16 hours ago, superchargecacodemons799 said:

if you step wrong one you're telefrag'd and if you fall off you die!

This was how I memorized the correct route:

 

tPO4MT3.jpg

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