Knee-Deep In The Dead 2.0

@KevvyLava PRBoom+ is the source port of choice for most "purist" players on the forums. It emulates the feel of vanilla Doom to a decent extent (while still adding a few improvements) and crucially supports strong demo compatibility. As such, lots of people here want to use it wherever they can, especially for a wad such as yours that doesn't seem to use many of GZDoom's advanced features.

 

GZDoom isn't exactly looked down on, but it's moved so far on from the original engine some people just don't like it.  So they can get a little unhappy if they see a wad that looks like it could be nearly PRBoom+ compatible but then isn't due to a few small things.

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Hi all!  Yes, yes, hard at work with more.  Just about finished with E2M2.  I like the ideas about the M8 and M9 being kind of limited for episode 2, thus mixing the levels in some different configurations.  I'll have to think about it a bit.  The good news is that I'm much more efficient at everything I'm doing these days and have been going at a pretty decent clip for just having started a new job a couple of weeks ago, too.

 

I'll find some sort of realistic way to combine a couple of levels into 1 in order to make sure the flow feels good.  Maybe "Halls of the Damned" can serve as a hub for other levels.  It'd make it really long, but maybe worth it.

 

And other bug fixes will be taken into account in the next update for KDITD2, which will happen right after work.  There were a couple of mismatched textures as well.

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Yeah, and since I use some 3D floors, PrBoom+ really isn't going to work, unfortunately.

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Upon replaying E1M1, I noticed an odd visual bug: when I interact with the blue switch the first time, only a third of the red bar lights up. I have to press the switch two more times to get it fully lit.

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Also, replaying through E1M7 (MAP07), I still cannot get 100% kills. I tried noclipping through the level to see if some of them failed to teleport outside their starting rooms, to no avail. On my latest attempt, five monsters were unaccounted for.

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Are you still working on Episode 2? In any case, here are a few belated comments on MAP09:

 

Overall, it is pretty good. However, on a pistol start, the level is almost Hell Beneath-hard in terms of difficulty. Maybe a few shotguns and shotgunners would help? How about a secret Plasma Rifle, like in the map's vanilla counterpart? Also, I cannot find the third secret: I only got the secret area in the red slime pit and the Soulsphere.

 

Finally, if you aim to make this mapset into a complete remake of The Ultimate Doom, then I would suggest renaming it to something else than 'Knee-Deep in the Dead 2.0'. Unfortunately, 'The Ultimate Doom II' is already taken. :(

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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Some adjustments have been made to make the maps easier.  Still working on TSOH2.  Here's where I'm at so far: https://www.mediafire.com/file/412ko79gyo87ay2/TSOH2.zip

 

Deimos Anomaly

Containment Area

Refinery

Deimos Lab

 

MAP09-MAP12.  Can make it easier if need be.  But you're supposed to rely on the Berserkers more on some maps.

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I will test those new maps right away! But once you are done with the episode, though, are you going to add it to the KDitD2 wad or do you intend to keep each episode separate?

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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So I found MAP09's third secret, but for some reason, the walls of the staircase leading to it look all glitched up - like there are two different textures on top of each other. I also do not think you needed to replace the Chainsaw at the beginning: on pistol start, the real difficulty comes from facing Hell Knights and a Baron of Hell with nothing but a Chaingun - unless you have acquired the secret Rocket Launcher beforehand.

 

Now, MAP10. Is there a way to lower the three pillars with the Backpack on the middle one or is it just an one-off thing? Also, I think it is really cheap to hide a Baron of Hell inside of a secret area that can only be lowered once.

 

I am really not a fan of the backtracking in MAP11. Sure, you encounter plenty more enemies on your way back, but that is still really lazy - which is honestly surprising, given how good your remakes of classic levels have been so far. Also, since there is only two Radsuits in the map, you take a lot of unnecessary damage walking over slime pools again unprotected. Finally, when I exited the level, I only had killed 218 out of 232 (93%) monsters. I have no idea where the remaining ones are and I tried noclipping through the level looking for stragglers, to no avail. All in all, I think this redesign is the weakest so far and the only one that does not feel like an improvement over the original.

 

In MAP12, there is a glitched texture blur bar under the door that leads to the room with the Soulsphere. Nothing else to report beyond that. I did like the addition of footbridges over slime pits; I do not remember seeing that before.

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Thanks for the feedback.  Not sure why the staircase in 09 looks funny to you, as it looks perfect to me on my end.  On 10, the three pillars always lower for me.  Not sure how they don't for you because they have 100% of the time I've play-tested the level.  Also, on 10 I think you're right about the Baron in that secret area only being able to be lowered once.  I'm going to keep it as once-lower but without the Baron.  11 was actually a very time-consuming map to get right.  I had to set it up so all of the monsters would go to the right spot and the purpose of the level is to introduce the Arachnotron, in addition to forcing you to find the other 3 keys and fight tougher monsters.  There's no really much one can do with the level because it's so tightly made.  I could totally fabricate new areas, but there weren't any areas that I thought really justified that.  It took just as much time to do as the others, maybe more (in the case of 09).  I suppose that one way to make the backtracking more worthwhile in 11 is by having new sections of the map be visible.  I actually have a new idea that I think might work better and achieve the same thing.  More on this as it develops! :)

 

Glad you liked 12.  I thought those bridges were a fun idea and I always thought that map had some potential but the original has so many useless areas that you just don't need.  The 3D floors present some fun ways to mix it up.  As far as all of the levels go, the difficulty is definitely too hard, and will need either more ammo, less monsters, or more health in some areas.  But part of the goal is to make you have to conserve ammo and use Berzerker.  I don't like the chainsaw that much but Berserk is fun sometimes.  Thanks for the feedback.  The next level, I'm kind of dreading because it's another one of those sort of maze levels with a bunch of pointless rooms.  I may nix some of them in favor of some different ideas.

 

...And then of course we get to my second-least favorite map in the entire game: Halls of the Damned. (Absolute least-favorite is definitely E3M7: Limbo).  But for E2M6, I think I can come up with a way to make it more fun.

Screenshot_Doom_20170930_104552.png

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I do not mind ammo scarcity too much so long as it is fair, which only becomes an issue if you play the map on pistol start anyway. If the player's arsenal from KDITD carries over, then it should not be too hard.

 

Regarding MAP11, well, I suppose you could always put a teleporter trap at the exit, which sends you back to the beginning to the level. That would alleviate the tedium of having to backtrack through the entire level and take environmental damage on the way.

 

As for the texture glitch I was talking about, here is a screenshot of it. It does change when you move around, though.

 

Screenshot_Doom_20171008_091508.png

 

Oh, and on a semi-related note, I tried playing your mapset with Contra Doom. However, because the increased projectile size of the weapons, I could not access the secret at the start of MAP05, which requires you to shoot a switch through a narrow gap. Now, I understand mod compatibility is not be your primary concern here... but I would appreciate it if you could ajust the secret so it could be accessed without using a hitcan weapon. :3

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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On 9/18/2017 at 7:30 PM, General Rainbow Bacon said:
On 9/19/2017 at 1:55 AM, KevvyLava said:

Lingyan203: What's the deal with (G)ZDoom?  Did it fall out of favor recently or something?  Odds of me switching all of the little details over to another engine are low because of the way I've grown accustomed to doing 3D floors, tags, etc.  I think that with the way the project is going, it will be worth using GZDoom.  If my standard of quality is up to snuff for the rest of this, I'm hoping people won't mind the slight inconvenience of firing it up for a good few hours of fun.

Well the thing is, I'm quite used to PrBoom+ but I can still play it with (G)ZDoom. It was just a thought.

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JohnnyTheWolf: I'm not sure why yours is having that texture issue and mine isn't.  Any ideas?  As you can see in my screenshot above, it leaves only the step texture and then shows the rock texture underneath it.  The purpose of MAP11 having the backtracking is to introduce more monsters.  I have an idea that will work better and be more fun.  Shouldn't take long to do, either.  I'm not going to offer support for other ports, though, because it would require redesigning too many parts.

 

Lingyan203: Yeah, since PrBoom+ doesn't allow 3D floors, the mapset won't play correctly in some parts anyway.  In the case of TSOH MAP12, it won't work at all because 3D floors are required for bridges.

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Fair enough, but just to be clear, Contra Doom is a mod, not a port. ;-)

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Okay, I tried playing the mapset with a fresh install and all graphical options set to default (with the exception of screen resolution), yet I still get the texture glitch in MAP09 and MAP12.

 

I wonder if it is related to my video card. I have a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950; what about you?

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I edited it so the 3D floors don't overlap with the texture underneath, so it should be fixed.  The 3D floor overlapped with the space that the actual floor was occupying, hence the problem.  I'm also adding more ammo in some spots to make it more reasonable.  Took out or switched a few enemies, etc.  I'm probably going to start up with E2M5 tonight.  And then, eventually, the dreaded E2M6.  If I survive E2M6.

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https://www.mediafire.com/file/412ko79gyo87ay2/TSOH2.zip

 

Here's the latest.  I think my mapping skills are getting quite good.  I've been more imaginative with these ones.

 

MAP09 - Deimos Anomaly

MAP10 - Containment Area

MAP11 - Refinery [total overhaul]

MAP12 - Deimos Lab

MAP13 - Command Center

 

Next up is the dreaded "Halls of the Damned". (shudder)  I'm thinking about some combination of Halls and Spawning Vats that leads into Tower of Babel.  We'll see.

 

Hope you enjoy it, Johnny.  And I think at the end of this, I'm going to call these episodes "Doom Redux".  I'll probably do Inferno at some point in the future, but I don't really think Thy Flesh Consumed needs to be redone because it's already very refined and plenty challenging as is.

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12 hours ago, KevvyLava said:

 

Next up is the dreaded "Halls of the Damned". (shudder)  I'm thinking about some combination of Halls and Spawning Vats that leads into Tower of Babel.  We'll see.

 

Hope you enjoy it, Johnny.  And I think at the end of this, I'm going to call these episodes "Doom Redux".

I'd always kicked around the idea of having an actual tower in the Tower of Babel level and I, in fact, started putting together such a level recently, before I knew you were continuing your Knee Deep in the Dead 2.0. I was even going to call the level "Tower of Babel Redux." Now I need to figure out how to proceed without seeming like I'm trying to plagiarize your ideas or horn in on your "territory."

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Pegleg...wanna join forces maybe?  We could take pieces of "Halls of the Damned" and "Spawning Vats" and stack them on top of one another vertically so you have to work your way though it.  Not sure if you saw but I've gotten pretty adept at using Legacy-style 3D floors to create complex room-over-room stuff.  If you play my TSOH2 wad and get to the end of MAP13 where I put Fortress of Mystery underneath the slime pit, you'll see what I mean.  The only hard part about this is you can't spawn enemies in 3D space (that I know of)....they always automatically appear on the lowest possible floor, so to circumvent that, you have to think about the shape of the tower.

 

In my head I'm thinking that the level should start out like Spawning Vats (the underground-looking parts) and then ease into one super level between the 3, with the Cyberdemon battle being at the top, of course.

 

^ All that being said, if you have your own vision, I wouldn't be remotely offended if you made something similar.  Maybe people like it more/less but either way, it's more classic Doom.

 

Anyway, let me know what you're thinking.

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20 hours ago, KevvyLava said:

Hope you enjoy it, Johnny.

Thanks, but... are you suggesting I am your only audience there? :o

 

Anyway, I am no longer experiencing the texture glitch in MAP09. Did you change anything? If not, then I guess updating to GZDoom 3.2 did the trick. However, by the time I made it to the exit, a dozen enemies - basically all the ones inside the inaccessible room near the blocky red gate at the start - failed to teleport in.

 

In MAP10, the three pillars with a switch on each of them do not lower themselves, even after you acquire the Yellow Key.

 

In MAP11, I still dislike being forced to backtrack once I reach the exit; I think it would be more effective to set a silent teleporter trap that sends you into an initially familiar yet completely different place. However, I do like how you "remixed" the previously-visited areas. It is confusing and disorienting, but in appropriately so. Unfortunately, by the end of the level, there were still twenty monsters that ended up not spawning.

 

I am still experiencing the texture glitch in MAP12.

 

Screenshot_Doom_20171016_171625.jpg

 

Smaller issue: in the ring-shaped area, there is a Stimpack placed on top of a Medkit. After doing some backtracking, I found myself unable to go through the Yellow door near the crusher inside the bright red room. Finally, why is there a SS in the exit room?

 

And now, MAP13. I noticed the panel that hurts the player when you get close to it now hides a Soulsphere. Am I supposed to still be taking damage when I stand near it?

 

I also noticed a mapping error:

Screenshot_Doom_20171016_181530.jpg

 

Another texture glitch:

Screenshot_Doom_20171016_181926.jpg

 

Weird application of wall texture there:

Screenshot_Doom_20171016_182129.jpg

 

I do like how you integrate E2M9 to the level, though. I never really liked that secret level because of just how short and easy it was. I also did enjoy the tiny tweaks throughout MAP13 to subvert expectations.

 

All in all, good job! Once completed and polished, this should turn out to be a really great megawad!

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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OK thanks for the feedback!  I fixed all of the issues, I believe.  Will be in the next release.  I'm trying to decide what to do with the next 3 maps.  Might do some sort of combination.

 

MAP09: I changed the way the stairs worked, which is probably why the glitch went away.

MAP10: I checked and I think I misspoke before...the pillars aren't supposed to lower...just run and grab the backpack right away and no prob.

MAP11: I'm not sure what those unkillable spectres are...I checked both maps you mentioned and the only spectres showing are within the regular playable area.  Maybe it's a GZDoom glitch overall or something.

MAP12: Not sure what was happening with the D1 Yellow door...might have had somethign to do with the other side being DR (also monsters) that made it so you could only trigger it once or something?  Should be fixed.  Fixed the texture glitch under the secret door by the bridge.  It was a 3D-floor overlap issue.  SS guy is for my own amusement.  May or may not make it to the final version.

MAP13: Made some texture changes that look better.  And attempted to fix the issue with the 3D floors.  I think depending on your rendering settings, it can look different.  Unsure, though.

 

And it wouldn't be a post by me if I didn't say: I'm really despising the idea of editing "Halls of the Damned", though.  What a terrible level.

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I edited out the parts about the unkillable Spectres, as I have encountered them in other mapsets. I now believe the problem may be related to the latest version of Smooth Doom.

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I started taking the other guy's idea and am attempting to turn Tower of Babel into an actual tower using pieces of Spawning Vats and Halls of the Damned.  It's pretty interesting so far but I don't know if it quite fits the rest of my maps to justify inclusion.  I'll upload what I have so far when I get home.

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So basically, you are going to merge those three maps into one?

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I've attempted to do parts...trying to make an actual tower you have to work your way up through using pieces of those other two levels as interior portions of the tower.  Lots of 3D floor usage.  So far, it's interesting.  Could end up really cool.  But might not quite be in the spirit of a "Redux" version.  Might just be a separate map idea or something.  When I upload it later, you can give it a look and see what you think so far.

 

NINJA EDIT: The biggest challenge I run into is that I don't know how to make enemies spawn at a certain Z-coordinate, so I have to be creative with item/monster placement, or they all end up on the very bottom floor.

Edited by KevvyLava

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Huh, I think I am going to wait for a more polished build.

 

After all, there is no point of testing a map that cannot be played without cheating. :/

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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The problem is that I'm not sure if I should finish it at all.  That's why I need you to try it now.

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So I have tried it and I think it works well. I have not been able to find the Red door, but I assume it is because you have not added it yet. I think it is on par with the rest of your maps.

 

Of course, if you do not want to finish it, I cannot make you.

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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