pa02-2057, Underhalls done Pacifist!

Very nice! Actual tactics, and not just a silly dice roll. Good job.

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On 12/03/2017 at 11:17 PM, dew said:

The other issue is that surviving the BK is so unlikely that a demo appearing out of the blue (oh god stop the puns!) would almost certainly get accused of cheating. Show us several hundred manhours of streamed pa02 attempts and we'll believe you, heh.

@ZeroMaster010 Well? This certainly came out of the blue!

No, I'm kidding. Great job.

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Yes :D there's been some joking about it would have to be cheated if it was ever done, but at least here I think my strategy does most the talking, heh

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Your route is brilliant. Congratulations with pushing the boundaries of impossible yet again!

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Damn, there is the ones who kill everything, and then, there is this guy. Amazing work! Truly something you should be proud.

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Well done!

 

There is hope for rocket launcher only 30uv now...

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Well done, but shame it's crispy made :(

 

ps. blame me for not fixing cndoom :P

Edited by fx02

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thanks everyone!

 

I just need that uncapped framerate these days, heh

 

At around 6:15 when I was standing in the safe spot in the blue key room I was waiting for the shotgunner to shot the barrels in the upper area (which were already down), but instead he shot the barrel below, which I had no idea he could do. I assume it's because the barrels was down in the upper area which allowed him to position himself to do that, and thankfully he only hit it once! So when I am left with the 2 imps at blue key room and a shotgunner above + 2 imps in the other room I'd say I should die probably 99% of the time. However, because he hit the barrel and later the imp hits it with a fireball, destroys it, and kills himself it also means the second imp (which was just barely within the explosion range) will target the shotgunner who hit the barrel first! not only that, the shotgunner was damaged enough from before so the imp easily won the fight (which would be unlikely if the shotgunner survives the fireball).

 

The amount of luck I got there was unreal, not to mention they could have easily destroyed the barrels at blue key when I tried to dodge the imps.

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To paraphrase Jon Stewart, if in some distant future aliens arrive on earth and the sole remnant of the human race they find is pa02-2057.lmp, I will be fine with that.

 

19 minutes ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

However, because he hit the barrel and later the imp hits it with a fireball, destroys it, and kills himself it also means the second imp (which was just barely within the explosion range) will target the shotgunner who hit the barrel first!

What, that was accidental? I assumed that was a key part of your plan (along with getting monsters stuck on doortracks, etc.)!
 

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I really needed that shotgunner to die as he will probably kill me when I try to clear the last 4 monsters by blue key + lure the other imps into the blue key room, and so my plan was for him to shoot the barrel in the upper area which should 100% kill him. Since the barrels rarely blew up early I didn't really listen for them going down, and I was afraid to check if they were still up since putting my head out there could mean 30 damage. I didn't have a plan for killing him in this case they were already destroyed, so him hitting the lower barrel and getting killed by an imp was just pure luck.

 

Monsters getting stuck in the door was however part of the plan, and I had a lot of different plans depending on how many imps survived :)

 

Also why monsters sometimes get stuck in doors like that + waking up monsters through the wall (1 of the shotgunners) works I have no idea.

Edited by ZeroMaster010

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3 hours ago, ZeroMaster010 said:

Also why monsters sometimes get stuck in doors like that + waking up monsters through the wall (1 of the shotgunners) works I have no idea.

Stuck on doortracks is explained on the wiki: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Monsters_stuck_in_doortracks,_walls_or_hanging_off_lifts

 

The monster wants to move in some direction but is blocked by one or more lines. But it detects one of these lines as a monster-activatable DR door. So instead of choosing a new move direction, it stands there retrying the move in the same direction, while doing the equivalent of spamming the use key on the detected door, until the move is no longer blocked. But this never happens, because the obstacle isn't just the door, but part of the wall next to it, which is of course immobile. Killough fixed this in Boom by having the monster occasionally break out of this loop and give up on trying to move in the chosen direction, instead selecting another regardless.

 

However what we have here is the related but much rarer case where they get stuck against D1 locked door lines. These are for some reason also considered monster-activatable (32-34). Thus monsters who can't carry keys still get stuck against them, thinking they will open when they never will. (Another example: the three archviles by the exit in hr17, who you will often see rooted to the spot next to the coloured bars in front of them.)

 

Edited by RjY

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I don't know how to confirm either directly but regarding the monsters waking up through the wall I assume the culprit is one of these two:

- REJECT table not being 100% correct in the map.

- bug in the code handling the line of sight with its most well-known demonstration conveniently present in this same map - the "blind" sergeant after the first door

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Thanks for the explanations!

 

Another good example I have of monsters waking up through walls would be on map 10\refuling base. If you just go into the room straight ahead with the spectres\chaingun, then you wake up 4 imps in the large blue key room.

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Just to make sure: we are talking about the sergeant (thing 50 at 784,528, on the line joining sectors 92 and 95) who wakes up erroneously on tic 2496? Then, the player is at approximately (362, 800) in sector 45. To illustrate, the sergeant is at the bottom right, the player's centre would be at the other end of the line, on the other side of the door, at the top left:

 

GvAUQxz.png

 

I believe reject oddities can be ruled out as sectors 45 92 and 95 should all be able to see each other, and they can - all relevant bits in the table are zero. (Also of course reject tests can only prevent line of sight, not cause it.) So we are left with tracing the progress of the sight check itself as it traverses the BSP nodes to find subsectors to cross and then tests each of those for blocking lines, and looking for anomalies like, as you say the sleeping sergeant bug, a miscalculation of subsector due to the sergeant being exactly on a line between two sectors, or plain old numerical error (rounding errors etc.)

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Holy lord this is a ridiculous test of patience and Doom intuition. Nice work!!!

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1 hour ago, Linguica said:

I recorded a demo from third person so you can sort of get a better idea of what is going on:

 

 

I still cant get the sort of idea whats going on. But crap that looks pro. 

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35 minutes ago, Anidrex_1009 said:

I still cant get the sort of idea whats going on. But crap that looks pro. 

watch with subtitles on.

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5 hours ago, Linguica said:

I recorded a demo from third person so you can sort of get a better idea of what is going on:

Thanks, this was helpful -- somehow I had misunderstood before, and was thinking the long periods of waiting were an essential but unfathomable part of the strategy, when they were quite the opposite.

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I checked through the subtitles real quick, the only correction is the first time I get under the safe spot. While the barrels did go down, there's a chance something survived or wandered off in the upper area, in this case there was only 1 shotgunner and 1 zombieguy. So here I just want infighting until there's 1 hitscanner alive, but I need to wait for a while to be sure nothing wandered off, and it can be hard to tell if there's just 1 alive sometimes. It doesn't matter if the barrels are destroyed before I enter the blue key room, and once I was there I didn't really have a plan for safely checking if the barrels were down (you take damage so quickly if you're not careful). So this is were I wait for them to go down, which could take 2-10 minutes, but instead got lucky and had him hit the barrel below.

 

 

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On 10.9.2017 at 2:22 PM, fx02 said:

Well done, but shame it's crispy made :(

Erm, sorry?

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7 minutes ago, fabian said:

Erm, sorry?

I used to use cndoom for my demos before, so I assume he means he would have preffered if it was done in that sourceport and not that there's anything wrong with crispy :)

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16 hours ago, Linguica said:

I recorded a demo from third person so you can sort of get a better idea of what is going on.

 

More like Underhalls: Lemmings Edition ;) 

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3 hours ago, fabian said:

Erm, sorry?

It's not a criticism of the port. Just that Crispy Doom recordings aren't eligible for Compet-n or its continuations.

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