The future of Doom...

[Doomkid]

On 9/11/2017 at 2:29 PM, Nautkillius said:

the people dont't play this game anymore! The Doomers will decrease. They have all new games like GTA, Counter Strike

[pnptcn]

Doom is a pretty unique thing. For one thing no other FPS has done it quite like Doom. Doom is a perfect storm of mechanics, theme and technology. Modern games require a ton of time, effort, and talent to create assets, and most of the time the end product isn't consistent with what you find in the commercial game. Doom's relatively simple graphics completely eliminate the need for 3D modeling for example. This enables individuals and small teams to put out focused, high quality content. And Doom has a nice set of simple game mechanics that interact in elegant ways and allow for seemingly endless creativity.

 

Very few games feel as alive to me as Doom. I'm certain this comes from Doom's fundamental design elements coming together in emergent ways. A game like CoD on the other hand feels exactly like what it is; A series of canned events where I feel like a Hollywood script writer is dragging me down a hallway by the nose. A good Doom wad is a spitting, snarling beast that has to be tamed and gives me a lot of latitude in how I go about that. I can name the FPS that give me that experience on one hand, and none of them are as approachable as Doom.

 

Doom is unique. Doom will live forever. It will be studied the same way other classics and masterpieces are studied.

[42PercentHealth]

On 9/11/2017 at 1:16 PM, Nevander said:

Doom will never die because you can't kill something that's immortalized.

"Thou canst not kill that which doth not live."

[Nine Inch Heels]

On 11.9.2017 at 11:29 PM, Nautkillius said:

Doom Builder 2 development has gone! Maybe Slade 3's website will disapear! Why? Because the people dont't play this game anymore! The Doomers will decrease. They have all new games like GTA, Counter Strike, etc. And that's why Doom, will just dissapear.

Funny you should mention, because most recently a new fork of DB2 has been released by Forum member Anotak. Also, since I'm in the SLADE discord, I can say with clarity that SLADE is being improved on quite frequently.

 

Other than that, some people tried their hands at making classic doom maps for the first time ever, which means that there's fresh blood around to deliver new content.

 

All that aside, as long as id keeps making games which they call "Doom", there's a good chance that people will end up here sooner or later, and maybe have a look at the classic games as well, not to mention that the classic doom games are being bundled into other packs and editions sold on steam, which further entices people to have a look.

 

I would argue that today quite a few more people than you might imagine are playing the classic doom, be it vanilla or modded.

 

...And that's why Doom won't just disappear.

 

I think it's fine to wonder what's going to happen, but unless there's something you can do to back up these claims, you're either going to end up being a false prophet, or you're going to be perceived as a potential troll.

[42PercentHealth]

1 minute ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

... as long as id keeps making games which they call "Doom"...

^ This. It's remarkably hard to explain to new-age gamers that Doom 2016 isn't the real Doom.

[Maes]

I don't think Doom will ever actually die, however it might become less accessible to future gamers for ergonomical or "trusted computing" issues. Already today, FPS are a genre that doesn't translate well to smartphone and touch screens, gamepads give an inferior gameplay experience, D-Touch and other ports seem to be always cockblocked from the app stores etc. so who knows what will happen in 10 or 20 years time. How many people will still be using a PC as their main gaming rig, necessary in order to use mods and advanced source ports?

 

The only "guarantee", so to speak, is there will always be some executable (but not necessarily playable) proof-of-concept port of the Linux Doom v1.10 codebase to a given platform X, and that's it.

[Average]

This is a bit off topic but this thread has got me wondering just how many copies of the OG Doom games sell on GOG and Steam these days...

[Dutch Doomer]

Doom has a bright future, its bright because of us. 

[Chezza]

8 hours ago, Maes said:

I don't think Doom will ever actually die, however it might become less accessible to future gamers for ergonomical or "trusted computing" issues. Already today, FPS are a genre that doesn't translate well to smartphone and touch screens, gamepads give an inferior gameplay experience, D-Touch and other ports seem to be always cockblocked from the app stores etc. so who knows what will happen in 10 or 20 years time. How many people will still be using a PC as their main gaming rig, necessary in order to use mods and advanced source ports?

 

The only "guarantee", so to speak, is there will always be some executable (but not necessarily playable) proof-of-concept port of the Linux Doom v1.10 codebase to a given platform X, and that's it.

One thing to consider - will there always be a need / want to sit and game on something comfortable for extended periods of time with little physical requirements beyond moving your hands? If that's a yes then PC will be prominent and Doom with it.

[Maes]

2 hours ago, Chezza said:

One thing to consider - will there always be a need / want to sit and game on something comfortable for extended periods of time with little physical requirements beyond moving your hands? If that's a yes then PC will be prominent and Doom with it.

In theory yes, but compare e.g. to what happened to audio: how many of the iGeneration youngsters would give up their iTunes streaming and their white Apple earbuds for a proper listening room and media collection? Some may eventually move on,/want something better, but they will be a minority fighting a losing battle.

[Chezza]

Audio is a different story. Give me something nice to listen to on a routine train ride to/from work and I will listen to a large portion of my music on my phone however if I had a  choice I would love some audiophile level sound room.

 

As for Gaming I want to spend a large portion of my free time to gaming and invest in a good computer / chair / speakers to maximise my quality of experience and comfort. No mobile game nor physically demanding VR platform can simultaneously deliver in both aspects. Well until the Matrix like shit comes in.

[Maes]

In the end however, convenience always trumped technical excellence in consumer land. That's what determined e.g. the dominance of certain video or audio formats over others, the popularity of game consoles even if they do have obvious drawbacks or limitations compared to a PC, or the use of the mobile (which practically monopolizes puzzle/casual/point-n-click games at the moment). If most people are content with the "games" they can get on a mobile (in terms of genre, not of quality), and more hardcore people will end up just using consoles in their living room, PC gaming is already left with a dwindling niche of "hardcore purists". Of those, an even smaller niche will be into emulators, source ports, retrocomputing etc. so it's really an uphill battle.

[Cipher]

@Maes, is this future assuming laptops are no longer commonplace? I don't have any kind of serious PC gaming setup, and I doubt if my laptop could tackle anything beyond an early 2000s era of gaming (I have no idea on that; maybe it can), but here I am happily playing Doom on this piece of technology necessary for everyday life that I initially only bought for writing and internet-browsing.

 

As long as a computer--rather than a tablet--remains a basic requirement of life in the real world, I doubt we'll see Doom go away. You need exactly two things to play Doom in its best format: a computer and an external mouse.

 

As for the main question of this thread removed from the hardware it's played on, Doom is a classic game that any number of people are likely to revisit or find for the first time simply as a stand-alone commercial project, but also an amazingly solid set of mechanics that have proved to be remixable in any number of ways. It'll disappear when something like 2D Mario does. (And something like 2D Mario is actually less accessible if you think about it, because it requires either specific consoles or a PC controller, which is far more niche than a mouse.)

[Maes]

15 minutes ago, Cipher said:

@Maes, is this future assuming laptops are no longer common-place? I don't have any kind of serious PC gaming setup, and I doubt if my laptop could tackle anything beyond an early 2000s era of gaming (I have no idea on that; maybe it can), but here I am happily playing Doom on this piece of technology necessary for everyday life that I initially only bought for writing and internet-browsing.

 

 

This is a more tricky question to answer. You see, from the point of view of AAA game publishers, people like you don't "count". Sure, there are still a lot of games that you can still play (older games, indie, retrogames, emulators etc.) but from the point of view of the modern video game industry, you're non-existent. You're just a geek that plays obscure old games in his basement, so to speak. At least nobody's preventing you from doing that (yet), either through "walled garden" app models or "trusted computing" barriers, which would certainly prevent you from accessing such old or "non trusted" gaming software to begin with. And let's not fool ourselves, Doom source ports are mostly "non-trusted" apps, with the exception maybe of the Classic Doom port included in Doom 3 BFG, Doom Classic for iPhone etc.

 

15 minutes ago, Cipher said:

As for the main question of this thread removed from the hardware it's played on, Doom is a classic game that any number of people are likely to revisit or find for the first time simply as a stand-alone commercial project, but also an amazingly solid set of mechanics that have proved to be remixable in any number of ways. It'll disappear when something like 2D Mario does.

 

The question here is under which form people will first know Doom in the future. Will the DOSBOX emulation through GoG/Steam or (worse) Doom95 still remain the primary "official" form? Through a minigame recreation/easter egg in some bigger game (not unlike Classic Doom in Doom 3: BFG edition)? Through some random guy's half-functional browser-based version (assuming that IWAD licensing issued get finally cleared up)? Will the source ports we use today still remain accessible and be easy to install, or will they have to go through so many hoops of "trusted computing" that only total geeks will bother installing them (just look at how many people are struggling with using PWADs today...)? Too many questions...

[Cipher]

22 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

This is a more tricky question to answer. You see, from the point of view of AAA game publishers, people like you don't "count". Sure, there are still a lot of games that you can still play (older games, indie, retrogames, emulators etc.) but from the point of view of the modern video game industry, you're non-existent. You're just a geek that plays obscure old games in his basement, so to speak. At least nobody's preventing you from doing that (yet), either through "walled garden" app models or "trusted computing" barriers, which would certainly prevent you from accessing such old or "non trusted" gaming software to begin with. And let's not fool ourselves, Doom source ports are mostly "non-trusted" apps, with the exception maybe of the Classic Doom port included in Doom 3 BFG, Doom Classic for iPhone etc.

 

 

The question here is under which form people will first know Doom in the future. Will the DOSBOX emulation through GoG/Steam or (worse) Doom95 still remain the primary "official" form? Through a minigame recreation/easter egg in some bigger game (not unlike Classic Doom in Doom 3: BFG edition)? Through some random guy's half-functional browser-based version (assuming that IWAD licensing issued get finally cleared up)? Will the source ports we use today still remain accessible and be easy to install, or will they have to go through so many hoops of "trusted computing" that only total geeks will bother installing them (just look at how many people are struggling with using PWADs today...)? Too many questions...

Re: All of the above: I mean, sure, but I thought the question was less "Will Doom continue to be a recognized AAA gaming franchise in the future?" (The modern AAA version is already a different game than the classic one, though it has the ability to point people toward it), and more, "Will Doom continue to exist and be played (and probably modded) as the same relatively niche but consistently present gaming experience it is now?"

 

And if it's the latter, it's hard to imagine that changing as long as people still have the tech to play it.

 

Classic Doom is already niche in the grand scheme. As long as computers are commonplace and people continue to iterate things like DosBox* and source ports and mapping tools, I don't see any reason for that to change.

 

To bring this up again, people are still releasing Mario romhacks regularly. People are still hacking Pokemon. People are playing retro games via emulation or official releases all the time. None of this is AAA gaming, but Doom's interest and playerbase will probably continue to be at least as present, if not more, than any other consistent retrogaming experience.

 

I guess "walled garden" models are a concern, but I wasn't aware they were so common as to make endangering non-approved apps a genuine worry.

 

*I realize I'm one of the few weirdos who actually prefer playing the iwads on DosBox, but I mention it here because having easily playable packages like GOG's out there is also part of bringing in new players. Setting up a source port is still one extra level of research.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Cipher

[Chezza]

I want to also point out the creative freedom and the advanced functionality the PC enables while no other current or foreseeable platform can outdo it. As we all know one of Doom's appeals in addition to many other games is that creative freedom.

 

I may want to sit on my comfy chair listening to my high quality speakers with a nice big screen with a practical mouse/keyboard creating a wad and then testing it with my precision aim on my mouse. I'm adamant that experience can't be replaced nor become obsolete for many many years. People who value these features are far too many, even if they also interact with other platforms.

 

Doom mapping on mobile, VR, console etc - noooo thanks.

[Koko Ricky]

It seems like eventually people will stop modding it, because nothing is permanent and even brilliant works of art can become forgotten with time. On the other hand, there are numerous works of art that have become immortalized to the point that it is still relevant to rework and remix them today. So I imagine the manner in which Doom is reworked may change dramatically with time, but there will probably be people doing this well into the 21st century and possibly beyond.

[Deleted_Account]

In  5 billion years when the Sun begins it's helium-burning process and transforms into a red giant and swallows up the Earth in it's infernal death throes, copies of Doom will be floating somewhere out there in space contained within a protective container riding on humanitys last space probe, perhaps entering the Large Magellanic Cloud, maybe even get intercepted by an indigenous space faring species in that galaxy. And they too will know the joy and wonder of D_Runnin.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Piper Maru

[TwinBeast]

Are we going to have Doom in the next universe?

[Marlamir]

9 hours ago, TwinBeast said:

Are we going to have Doom in the next universe?

probably yes, things like doom never die

[Koko Ricky]

Will it always be possible to mod Doom? Because it seems to me that as long as the code isn't lost, you can retrofit it for pretty much any device, even far into the future. Even if we switch to some kind of completely internal computing where it's all entirely mental, you could conceivably find a way to run Doom Builder 2, SLADE 3, GZdoom, etc. on it.

[Maes]

7 hours ago, GoatLord said:

Even if we switch to some kind of completely internal computing where it's all entirely mental, you could conceivably find a way to run Doom Builder 2, SLADE 3, GZdoom, etc. on it.

Well, at that point you can just dream and fantasize of Doom.

[Da Werecat]

21 minutes ago, Maes said:

Well, at that point you can just dream and fantasize of Doom.

I'd be quite a prolific mapper with such technology.

 

Then again, so would everyone else.

 

[Koros]

 

[beanz]

I'm wondering the same thing. How big would some controversy have to be to effectively kill the Doom community? Like, if Carmack came out and said "lol masters of doom was wrong we beat and raped kids, dogs, and seniors during the development and did 9/11"

[Chezza]

10 minutes ago, beanz said:

I'm wondering the same thing. How big would some controversy have to be to effectively kill the Doom community? Like, if Carmack came out and said "lol masters of doom was wrong we beat and raped kids, dogs, and seniors during the development and did 9/11"

The searches and playthroughs of Doom would only rise, me thinks :/

[Job]

Doom will be just fine. 

[TootsyBowl]

5 hours ago, beanz said:

I'm wondering the same thing. How big would some controversy have to be to effectively kill the Doom community? Like, if Carmack came out and said "lol masters of doom was wrong we beat and raped kids, dogs, and seniors during the development and did 9/11"

People are still touchy over Columbine, and Doom survived that.

[Marlamir]

Sometimes i think, where doom will be today if carmack decide to not share the sourcecode of doom.

[jerk-o]

Probably forgotten.  Not sure doom 3 would have been made if people weren't playing sourceports.