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anotak

Doom Builder X 2019.1 (August 30) - map editor forked from DB2

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I did a compare of your DBX logfile and mine (see attachment below)

 

Spoiler

EuBdt4Q.png

 

where I create a simple sector, saved and exited.

 

I seem to remember anotak mentioning that, if you have a Builder.cfg then DBX will copy that on first use of the editor and then write its own BuilderX.cfg on further use. I don't know what happens if the Builder.cfg was corrupted and what DBX will make of it.

 

What you could try is to delete both, Builder.cfg and BuilderX.cfg, and then open DBX to let it write a new BuilderX.cfg.

 

BuilderX.zip

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19 hours ago, TeknoRider said:

I just tried to revert back to older drivers (the latest Creators ones, 481.something instead of 486.something, gtx 1060), tried to run DBX/2 using iGPU or GPU, no changes.

 

That your DBX logfile has no entries after Initializing graphics device... makes me wonder if the driver is installed at all.

The latest version for your gtx 1060 is 436.30, try to update your computer with that.

 

 

8 hours ago, TeknoRider said:

I also did a custom clean before installing. I didn't do a registry clean however, i had the habit of doing regularly until it fucked up 2 windows installations right one after the other. So i'm a bit reluctant on doing a cleaning with it.

 

Possibly herein lies your problem. If something happened to the system files then, in my mind, running the Registry Cleaner would correct some faulty entries. But your call.

 

Maybe anotak has some sage insight into this debacle.

 

 

 

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Tried uninstalling completely the drivers, then registry cleanup, then reinstall the latest drivers. Still not working. It seriously starts getting annoying. I just don't know what to do now. Virtual machine ? ffs...

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the only thing I can think of is that maybe your DirectX 9.0c install is broken somehow? make sure you installed this one right here. i'm really having trouble figuring out how it would crash without the logfile providing any information about the error at all, that's what's got me a bit stumped. it just gets to "Initializing graphics device...", and then nothing.

 

i'm starting to wonder if it's hardware issue of some kind. have you had any problems at all with anything else that uses your graphics card?

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11 hours ago, anotak said:

the only thing I can think of is that maybe your DirectX 9.0c install is broken somehow? make sure you installed this one right here. i'm really having trouble figuring out how it would crash without the logfile providing any information about the error at all, that's what's got me a bit stumped. it just gets to "Initializing graphics device...", and then nothing.

 

i'm starting to wonder if it's hardware issue of some kind. have you had any problems at all with anything else that uses your graphics card?

 

No, no problems anywhere else.. tried installing the directx you provided, it said i ran a more recent version so no need to install (i'm on W10)

 

EDIT : tried reinstalling the june 2010 DX. it copied files, yet no changes.

EDIT 2 : tried also reinstalling intel drivers, and uninstalling them and rebooting. nope.

Edited by TeknoRider : getting desperate

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7 hours ago, TeknoRider said:

EDIT 2 : tried also reinstalling intel drivers, and uninstalling them and rebooting. nope.

 

Intel drivers? Don't you have a NVIDIA GTX1060?

 

Assuming that your OS is up to date, at this point I would do the following:

  • Uninstall the editors, DB2 and DBX, and delete the assiciated folder Doombuilder in AppData\Local\
  • Run the Windows Troubleshooter
  • As I mentioned in a post above, run Doom Builder 2.1.2.1553 setup installation from Mirror#1
  • Check that it works
  • Delete Builder.cfg
  • Install DoombuilderX
  • Check that it works

I know, I mentioned all this before, but it's all I can think of.

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

Intel drivers? Don't you have a NVIDIA GTX1060?

 

Assuming that your OS is up to date, at this point I would do the following:

  • Uninstall the editors, DB2 and DBX, and delete the assiciated folder Doombuilder in AppData\Local\
  • Run the Windows Troubleshooter
  • As I mentioned in a post above, run Doom Builder 2.1.2.1553 setup installation from Mirror#1
  • Check that it works
  • Delete Builder.cfg
  • Install DoombuilderX
  • Check that it works

I know, I mentioned all this before, but it's all I can think of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still nope. :(

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38 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

:( indeed.

Not being able to check out your computer, I'm out of ideas.

 

Will use a VM linked with my actual HDD with a lightweight windows 7 installation and the Unity Mode of vmware. Sucks.

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Another thing TeknoRider can do is try to compile and run DBX themselves to isolate what's forcing it to close. 

 

Or beg the elder God they've apparently offended for forgiveness, lacking any other explication of the problem. 

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I seem to have a problem displaying big textures properly in DBX:

 

image.png.ae8e277d079c4d6a5e6e0a77ac112abd.png

 

Untitled-2.png.2e4a434b1517473170d7f6c28e34d42b.png

 

... It shows just fine in PrBoom+:

 

doom115.png.a265040e928d1ed93b64f53e4746309e.png

 

What's the issue here?

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huh. would you be willing to send me a wad with that texture, so i can have a look? if you don't want to share your whole wip wad, a wad with just the 1 texture would work

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5 hours ago, Doom Marine said:

... It shows just fine in PrBoom+:

 

doom115.png.a265040e928d1ed93b64f53e4746309e.png

 

What's the issue here?

Draw a vertical line along the eastern coast of Africa and you'll still see some oddities on the edges of the world. Central Asia protrudes from the rest by a whole sky texel (about 5 or six Earth texture texels apparently), while Antarctica likewise protrudes by a couple of Earth texture texels.

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5 hours ago, Gez said:

Draw a vertical line along the eastern coast of Africa and you'll still see some oddities on the edges of the world. Central Asia protrudes from the rest by a whole sky texel (about 5 or six Earth texture texels apparently), while Antarctica likewise protrudes by a couple of Earth texture texels.

I think it just caught the rendering engine at the wrong place and time... it's perfectly round from most perspective... another mystery issue.

 

@anotak I'll send a test case later tonight.

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I'd like to use DBX more, but there are some features in GZDB that are missing in DBX that I really don't want to go without:

  • Showing thing sprites on their icons
  • Multiple test programs (can choose between PrBoom+, ChocoRenderlimits, or Chocolate Doom when testing, for example)
  • In the dialog where you choose a line action, you can start typing something like "w1 floor l" to see all the options that match

There were a few more that I'm not remembering at the moment, but I'll dig in and try to rediscover them if you're interested in making changes like these. :)

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7 hours ago, Benjogami said:

I'd like to use DBX more, but there are some features in GZDB that are missing in DBX that I really don't want to go without:

  • Showing thing sprites on their icons
  • Multiple test programs (can choose between PrBoom+, ChocoRenderlimits, or Chocolate Doom when testing, for example)
  • In the dialog where you choose a line action, you can start typing something like "w1 floor l" to see all the options that match

There were a few more that I'm not remembering at the moment, but I'll dig in and try to rediscover them if you're interested in making changes like these. :)

 

So in general, I guess to some degree new feature talk has to be preceded by the following thing:

To be fully open about it, I've been talking some with some other developers in the community, and we've talked some about working on a completely new editor not based on Doom Builder at all. The big reason for this is that ultimately there's a lot of fundamental architectural things in DB2 (and its children, DBX, GZDB, etc) that make it difficult to debug, improve, or change in various ways. A lot of this is stuff we know now because of hindsight and aren't really things CodeImp et al could've known at the time. I also think I have some ideas that could be big improvements on the various Doom Builder(s), although eventually it'll be up to the other mappers to decide that.

The reason I bring this up now is that if I'm long-term doing that, I might pull back some on new features and just focus on fixing crashes in DBX. We haven't actually committed to starting this but just it's something I've been thinking about for quite a while now.

 

However:

re: thing sprites:

I'm still thinking about this long-term as to how to approach this. I'd like to do this in a way to where it's performant, as the way it's implemented in GZDB is unfortunately rather slow based on profiling I ran. (edit: I'd like to clarify that this isn't a criticism of GZDB(-BF), Max-ED got it done. This is more about the fact that the two editors have a different niche / userbase.). The thing about it is that whenever I mess with that stuff I'm often just tempted to rework the renderer from scratch in order to remove that damn SlimDX dependency. SlimDX hasn't been updated since 2012 and also is the big bad reason why Doom Builder is windows-only.

 

Multiple test programs:

I'd like some better way to approach this (and the "game configs" concept) entirely. I'm not happy about any editor's current UI for this type of thing in general.

 

Choosing line action:

I sort of want to rework the linedef properties dialogue entirely, but I'd like to do so in a way that isn't stepping on any toes or messing with people's legacy muscle memory or etc. It doesn't make much sense to me that you have to switch tabs, then click to open a 2nd dialogue to open textures. Or open a whole new window to get a browsable list of line specials.

Edited by anotak

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A brand new editor that isn't tied to Windows and other old stuff is pretty exciting, and indeed seems like a good reason to hold back on new features for DBX. I'll stay tuned.

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17 hours ago, anotak said:

huh. would you be willing to send me a wad with that texture, so i can have a look? if you don't want to share your whole wip wad, a wad with just the 1 texture would work

image.png.8e9e238460bb1467b5a6945c5ffa1fd8.png

 

Untitled-5.png.5c63c881c6555394a4990a32b6aa1547.png

 

doom61.png.aa19d780359fa0e6978ae3b163d7520b.png

Ignore the faint red outline, that's just quick sloppy editing on my part.

 

Test WAD: BigTexTestDBX.zip

 

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thanks. i'll probably have a look sometime this week, although i probably can't look too close today or tomorrow because of irl concerns. remind me if i somehow forget

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On 9/17/2019 at 6:19 PM, anotak said:

So in general, I guess to some degree new feature talk has to be preceded by the following thing:

To be fully open about it, I've been talking some with some other developers in the community, and we've talked some about working on a completely new editor not based on Doom Builder at all. The big reason for this is that ultimately there's a lot of fundamental architectural things in DB2 (and its children, DBX, GZDB, etc) that make it difficult to debug, improve, or change in various ways. A lot of this is stuff we know now because of hindsight and aren't really things CodeImp et al could've known at the time. I also think I have some ideas that could be big improvements on the various Doom Builder(s), although eventually it'll be up to the other mappers to decide that.

The reason I bring this up now is that if I'm long-term doing that, I might pull back some on new features and just focus on fixing crashes in DBX. We haven't actually committed to starting this but just it's something I've been thinking about for quite a while now.

This is great news - if this gets underway I might have to contribute. I've had similar thoughts but since my day job is writing code, I don't really want to commit to a programming hobby project. But if there's a new Doom Builder replacement project on the horizon, I would love to contribute something to it. I've had some ideas about non-destructive editing workflows (kind of like Photoshop layers) that I've wanted to play around with but the Doom Builder code base is a little bit crusty and I've been waffling back and forth between writing something for a Doom Builder or writing something from scratch.

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On 9/17/2019 at 3:19 PM, anotak said:

 

So in general, I guess to some degree new feature talk has to be preceded by the following thing: ....

 

It would be great if a two monitor system could be included, edit 2D on one monitor, see it in 3D on the other. But, probably that would be too ambitious.

 

And a map previewer a la Deepsea. I had asked for that several times in the past, but it always was low priority.

Edited by Kappes Buur

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3 hours ago, Volte said:

This is great news - if this gets underway I might have to contribute. I've had similar thoughts but since my day job is writing code, I don't really want to commit to a programming hobby project. But if there's a new Doom Builder replacement project on the horizon, I would love to contribute something to it. I've had some ideas about non-destructive editing workflows (kind of like Photoshop layers) that I've wanted to play around with but the Doom Builder code base is a little bit crusty and I've been waffling back and forth between writing something for a Doom Builder or writing something from scratch.

 

yeah, it's most certainly a big project, i'd appreciate all the help we can get. I similarly want to do something like adobe illustrator's layers, preserving curve information, etc. Right now i've been investigating various languages and gui libraries in order to get a better idea of the state of things there. Jazz has made some interesting JS prototypes for various types of tools and stuff.

 

47 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

It would be great if a two monitor system could be included, edit 2D on one monitor, see it in 3D on the other. But, probably that would be too ambitious.

 

And a map previewer a la Deepsea. I had asked for that several times in the past, but it always was low priority.

 

Absolutely 0 promises for anything at this stage, but multiple viewpoints has been a hope. Editors for other games have been able to do it for decades now. Ideally I'd like to make it possible to actually draw new sectors in a 3D view. As far as previews, yes, something to solve the issue there would be good, i'm not sure if specifically previews is the best idea. It's definitely annoying to try to hop into a big set you havent looked at in a minute and try to determine "now which one of these was it". I'll have to think about this. In any case, it would definitely be easier to implement in a new non-doom-builder environment.

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Considering how long it took the DB2 family to get where it is now, starting from scratch sounds like a quite daunting task, but I can understand you. Right now even seemingly trivial fixes can turn ugly, where doing it a cleaner way could break who-knows-what, including backwards compatibility with plugins (as if any would exist, heh, but you never know).

 

On 9/20/2019 at 6:00 AM, anotak said:

I similarly want to do something like adobe illustrator's layers, preserving curve information, etc.

 

So an intermediate format, that gets compiled into a map usable by ports?

 

On 9/20/2019 at 6:00 AM, anotak said:

Ideally I'd like to make it possible to actually draw new sectors in a 3D view.

 

This would be such a disruptive innovation that it's weird that it's not the DB2 family right now. And moving geometry should be added, too. And extruding geometry from walls. And creating portals that lead to a new layer with one button press. Most (all?) that is done in 2D now could be done in 3D, too. If the usability suffers will have to be tested, though :D

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