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anotak

Doom Builder X 2019.1 (August 30) - map editor

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Possible feature request, or maybe this is already in db2/dbx and I'm just outing myself as a failure, but it would be nice to be able to move geometry and Things together. Currently when you select geometry, and change to Things mode and select + move the Things, the geometry does not participate in the move function.

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You can go to sector mode and select geometry, then go to thing mode and select things, then go to edit selection mode (press E) and move both.

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13 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

You can go to sector mode and select geometry, then go to thing mode and select things, then go to edit selection mode (press E) and move both.

 

Yessss

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Pardon me asking, but is there any way to provide a Linux version?

 

Even if it had a reduced feature set since DirectX is Windows-exclusive, if thats even how it works haha.

 

:)

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it's a very big project, i'd have to rewrite the renderer completely to use vulkan

 

it's not entirely out of the question but it's enough work to where at that point i am seriously considering writing a new editor mostly from scratch.

there are many things about how doom builder was originally architected both internally and ui-wise that i think could be improved on with the hindsight we have 10 years later.

 

i know it's not great but i know many people use windows xp running in a VM to run DBX on linux/mac.

Edited by anotak

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Alright.

 

I just really want to get back into mapping for Doom... but SLADE3 seems to not have very much development sadly, and its editor is... not great in my opinion.

 

I would love if you created a whole new editor. I'd probably through a bit of cash at it too, if it supported GZDoom's features.

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anything that supports UDMF supports gzdoom's features. although it's a bit troublesome, as no piece of software follows the UDMF spec 100% accurately.

 

oh i believe also eureka and yadex (?) run on linux btw?

 

but like i said, a lot of people choose to use a windows xp VM on linux

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Eureka and Yadex are editors, but are heavily outdated.

 

I believe that they don't even support ZDoom, and I like UDMF.

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Just tried out Doom Builder X the other day, I've always really liked DB2 but it had some bugs that neeeded fixing, I'm happy to see that almost all of them have been addressed in DBX! Bugs such as the slowdowns in 3D mode were really annoying for example. Good work!

 

Just hope the program hasn't been discontinued, seeing it's not been updated since March. :) Or if you're working on a new editor maybe?

 

If you're still working on the program, I have two concerns:

 

1) While the idea with a smaller status bar is generally good, what happens if a bigger font size in Windows is used? I don't myself need a bigger font size right now, but might if I switch to a 4K monitor in the future for instance. It would be real cool if you could use the program without issues with bigger font sizes. Or maybe you can do so already?

 

2) There's one bug I've noticed from DB2 that is still present in DBX: If you start drawing a new sector outside the map, to attach to a present sector, sometimes the newly drawn lines might completely disappear when you attach the last vertex to the first one, to complete the sector.

 

Otherwise, really nice work with the editor so far! Much appreciated!

Edited by waverider : Correction

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1 hour ago, waverider said:

2) There's one bug I've noticed from DB2 that is still present in DBX: If you start drawing a new sector outside the map, to attach to a present sector, sometimes the newly drawn lines might completely disappear when you attach the last vertex to the first one, to complete the sector.

 

Make sure you draw the sector clockwise. That way the front of lines are facing in when you finish the sector and DB knows where to fill in.  If you draw them facing out, DB tries to work out if you actually meant to fill in the space behind the lines, but sometimes can't work it out.  It's not a bug exactly, more a feature not always being able to understand what you're trying to do. 

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On 10/27/2018 at 5:29 AM, waverider said:

Just tried out Doom Builder X the other day, I've always really liked DB2 but it had some bugs that neeeded fixing, I'm happy to see that almost all of them have been addressed in DBX! Bugs such as the slowdowns in 3D mode were really annoying for example. Good work!

 

Just hope the program hasn't been discontinued, seeing it's not been updated since March. :) Or if you're working on a new editor maybe?

 

If you're still working on the program, I have two concerns:

 

1) While the idea with a smaller status bar is generally good, what happens if a bigger font size in Windows is used? I don't myself need a bigger font size right now, but might if I switch to a 4K monitor in the future for instance. It would be real cool if you could use the program without issues with bigger font sizes. Or maybe you can do so already?

 

2) There's one bug I've noticed from DB2 that is still present in DBX: If you start drawing a new sector outside the map, to attach to a present sector, sometimes the newly drawn lines might completely disappear when you attach the last vertex to the first one, to complete the sector.

 

Otherwise, really nice work with the editor so far! Much appreciated!

 

i'm still working on dbx. just getting this next update in a stable place where i am satisfied has taken longer than expected. i am also here and there poking at making a new editor but that's a much longer-term project. doom-related dev is just slow for me because i have a lot of other things i am dealing with.

 

1) it does scale to some degree, but it's imperfect bc of a combination of windows forms weirdnesses and preexisting choices in DB's design. this is definitely on my radar but i don't have a solution at this time.

 

2) i am aware of this and looking into solutions still. it may help to draw things clockwise instead of counter-clockwise like Bauul suggested.

 

thanks

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Thanks, the pair of you! :) I'll try to draw clockwise.

 

Glad to see that DBX is still worked on, looking forward to see what you can come up with in future releases! 

 

DBX is now my main editor so I'll be sure to give feedback and bug reports as I map along.

Edited by waverider

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I figure I should actually release the version of doom builder x that has Lua Mode in it more publicly, even though things are in an alpha state, but I think I'm ready to take feedback on it from the general public.

https://www.sf4remix.com/lilith/doombuilderx-2.1.3.11-alpha5.zip

 

this isn't the final way this will look, but I've been slow with working on it because it's been a hectic semester for me.

this is the changelog for that version



version 2.1.3.12
=====================
- new Lua plugin (thanks to Ribbiks, Grain of Salt, Printz, and MTrop for feedback)
- All / Textures / Flats / resources categories are on top in the texture browser now. there is an option in preferences to revert to the old behavior: 'Put "All" and resource categories on top in browsers'
- texture categories for subfolders/subwads inside pk3 resource archives
- texture categories remember which one you clicked on properly
- when drag-selecting, hold alt when you release-click to drag-deselect instead
- if you hold alt when you start to drag things, it duplicates them instead.
- bmsq added long texture name support. thanks bmsq!
- moved "Grid Increase" / "Grid Decrease" to be beside each other in the hotkey setup
- fixed a minor bug with displaying texture counts in the browser
- merged texture and flat browser source code to reduce code duplication (this shouldn't have any effects that are noticeable to you, but please, keep an eye for new bugs with the texture browser)
- internal changes to how selection is "converted" when switching modes, this should not cause visible behavioral differences, this is just to allow for the new Lua mode to work properly. please report any weird new behavior regarding selection.
- minor tweaks to status bar flavor text
- made it so that the initial directory for the file dialog is separate based on whether it's wads, resources, or prefabs
- fixed a crash when double click editing sectors in make sectors mode
- fixed negative lighting values not always working right
- if you press alt or ctrl while drag selecting it doesnt stop selecting

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https://www.sf4remix.com/lilith/doombuilderx-2.1.3.11-alpha6.zip

 

new alpha version. the changes that made it to the official changelog are:

- fixed lighting levels to clamp to 0-256 not 0-255. you can still manually type in negative or >256 values

- fixed certain panels not displaying textures/sprites in windows 8/10 High Contrast mode

- some things that use the same sprites have been changed to have their editor preview to use a different frame (demon/spectre for example)

 

in addition there have been some internal bugfixes to the new features, as well as some new / renamed scripts

 

most notably the skew script

 

also since i didn't mention, the lua API is documented (badly) on the github wiki, if you want to get started on scripts yourself. hopefully the source code to the scripts are more helpful at explaining what's going on. hopefully it should be relatively comprehensible if you're proficient in something like ACS or ZScript?

Edited by anotak

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I deeply wish y'all would deprecate ExtraData instead.

 

EE-UDMF exists and I'm not into the idea of trying to keep up with 2 different formats that do largely the same thing. DB2+'s internal representation of the flags isn't an integer. I do not see an appropriate and clean way to do this that doesn't have serious costs elsewhere.

 

If you really need to do things like this, I'd suggest y'all implement it on EE's end using the angle field instead. Angles already have a long history of being misused in this sort of manner by Hexen's polyobjects. This way you'd have 'support' for many other editors as well.

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It's not only for the purpose of editing, it's also for the purpose of previewing. The feature actually fairly dated by this point and is already used for several maps (and thus how it works is not really open for discussion, the boat has long since sailed :P); this is really more for the purpose of having a clear way to correlate it for existing maps and quick edits. Nobody would disagree with you on the UDMF front, but that's not really why I'm asking.

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That ship hasn't sailed if people are really interested in making new ExtraData maps though. EE can make a new thing type that uses the angle field if people want it. It should be a few lines of code, based on what I know about the EE source. It would also be simple to write an outside tool to do conversion. I think SLADE's Lua scripting might be advanced enough to automate it through SLADE.

 

On the other hand, the internal representation of flags in Doom Builder does not use integers. The 8th bit of thing flags is intentionally unused in the format. In DB, the flags are based on the contents of the game-config external file, which is used to generate the user interface. I do not see a way to provide a solution to this that would not require a combination of:

1) more programmer time than I would like to spend,

2) a worse UI/UX experience for everyone that is not interested in this feature,

3) more technical debt to support a format that I think should've been deprecated years ago,

4) causing issues with plugin compatibility.

 

ExtraData does not have the historical momentum of Boom or Doom format. Or the original Hexen format, for that matter, which is the one which introduced the idea of using the angle field for this kind of purpose in the first place.

The only released map I can think of that uses it much is the Vaporware demo probably? Which I don't think is even on idgames.

 

If people really badly need this information, they can use that view in SLADE.

 

I very rarely have said altogether "no" to feature request, just usually "That is a very long term goal, and I can't promise anything".

Please respect that I have good reasons for this, and do not say "no" whimsically.

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30 minutes ago, anotak said:

That ship hasn't sailed if people are really interested in making new ExtraData maps though.

Well again this was about legacy maps, not new ones, so that's largely irrelevant. However if it can't be done then that's all I needed to know, thanks.

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20 hours ago, anotak said:

also since i didn't mention, the lua API is documented (badly) on the github wiki

Good to know. I'd like if, as much as possible, the lua API in DBX and in SLADE 3 was similar, to make it simpler to use map editing scripts. Having some shared API would make it possible for people to share scripts that'd work in either editor, and that would be mighty cool in my opinion.

I made a ticket for that on SLADE so we can discuss this stuff. :)

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I know I'm in the minority of one on this one, but one feature in Deepsea I find invaluable is the map previewer, but unfortunately it does not work for UDMF maps. Since Randomlag no longer works on Deepsea my idea is for someone to make a plugin for any of the DB2 to GZDBBF family. I'm not a programmer and have to rely on the kind souls who develop editors. 

 

What it looks lke is as follows:

For an IWAD like Doom2

ZJIkUNO.png

 

For a PWAD with fewer than 32 maps like 10Levels.wad

WI4D0Eh.png

 

or a PWAD with 32 maps like AV.WAD

XGrdp63.png

 

the corresponding Doom2 maps are overwritten.

 

Clicking on a map image will start that map.

 

Maybe this will spark some interest.

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While not really necessary for me personally, I would also welcome something like this, because I really like the look of map layouts. Even more so, I would love to hae a tool to actually export map data as vector. I already tried three different tools, but they were either a) not working correctly or b) very, very, very basic with no options what to export at all. I'd love to have a map export tool, where I can toggle on / off things, decide which lines to show (all of them or automap mode) and / or even adjust color schemes (black lines on white or dark grey lines on beige, etc.) and / or line thickness.

 

EDIT: Damn, that might have been the wrong thread to post this... ;/

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it's a previewer? like before you open a map? so right now where you just have the text-names of the map in dbx

 

or is it just for exporting visuals?

 

edit: gez i responded to the thread.

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4 hours ago, anotak said:

it's a previewer? like before you open a map? so right now where you just have the text-names of the map in dbx

 

A short video of how it works in Deepsea might help

 

 

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I have encountered this weird bug with sector lighting. The textures get completely black when the sector light is under 80units.

This is how it looks in the builder:THIS.jpg.984965e12af1cee2544fbc0133ce10a9.jpg

And this is how it looks in gzdoom 3.6.0 :

ingamethis.jpg.267ce4e593952b0aca4ed16d17690d84.jpg

 

Also, Are there any plugins for this version of doombuilder? Visplane Explorer from original DB2 loads but counts everything is 0/128 and the VE plugin which is shipped with GZDB-bugfix does not even load.

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20 hours ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

A short video of how it works in Deepsea might help

 

 

hmmm.

that does seem useful.

 

it can't be high priority right now, but i'll keep it in mind.

 

2 hours ago, Sokoro said:

I have encountered this weird bug with sector lighting. The textures get completely black when the sector light is under 80units.

There's just differences in how Doom Builder and the game renders things. This can't easily be fixed.

 

Part of the issue is that rendering behavior varies significantly from port to port, or based on one's settings.

GZDoom and the other truecolor renderers draw Doom's lighting quite differently than software palettized renderers which have the banding effect. (Which one prefers is entirely subjective, though it would be nice if map authors had more control over this).

 

If I ever get around to rewriting the renderer in Vulkan (especially to move toward Linux/Mac support), I will look into making it more accurate then.

But that is a very long-term project.

 

 

2 hours ago, Sokoro said:

Also, Are there any plugins for this version of doombuilder? Visplane Explorer from original DB2 loads but counts everything is 0/128 and the VE plugin which is shipped with GZDB-bugfix does not even load.

There are several plugins included.

 

Right now Visplane Editor is broken for DBX, it was that way when I first forked DBX from the DB2 svn builds. I just haven't gotten around to fixing it. It's what I'm planning on dealing with after 2.1.3.12 is released (which will be the first stable Lua version, Coming Soon [TM]).

 

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5 hours ago, Sokoro said:

... and the VE plugin which is shipped with GZDB-bugfix does not even load.

 

Did you enable the VE plugin in F6 -Modes?

 

WIn3vNJ.png

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On 12/19/2018 at 9:38 AM, anotak said:

A short video

 

hmmm.

that does seem useful.

 

it can't be high priority right now, but i'll keep it in mind.

 

@boris

Since anotak is busy with other stuff would you be up to make plugin for this? :)

 

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19 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

@boris

Since anotak is busy with other stuff would you be up to make plugin for this? :)

 

That's outside of the scope what plugins can do.

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