Coffee vs. climate change: The news is not good

I have a question for all of you....

Does coffee have B12 eh? Since the topic started with coffee and it will end with B12.........just saying.

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3 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

I have a question for all of you....

Does coffee have B12 eh? Since the topic started with coffee and it will end with B12.........just saying.

Maybe if you add it... Didn't this start with climate change though?

 

tumblr_ow3ixolIJI1ri57fgo1_540.png

Edited by Nine Inch Heels

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Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

Maybe if you add it...

with milk, I guess :D

But since I left the coffee long ago, I'll pass. Thanks

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10 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So I'm in no way shape or form obligated to do deliver anything more here as a means to back up what is actually a not too uncommon knowledge, and your claim that meat is something humans need to stay healthy is falsified by millions of perfectly healthy vegetarians all across the globe.

1) I never claimed humans needed meat, only that meat was a source/container/whateverwordyouwantinsteadofsource for B12 and other essential nutrients.

 

2) You supplied no reliable evidence to counter my claims that meat has substantial amounts of B12 in it (and therefore a "source" in this context).  What you're doing is delivering misinformation.

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Yeah I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive here Nine Inch Heels. I never said I had any problem with seeing humans cut back on meat consumption. I'm fine with that, and I also agree that climate change is a serious problem. I was merely questioning your use of the word "source" for nutrients, that's all.

 

It's unfortunate because meat is a healthy (and tasty) food. It's kind of sad that we're reaching a point where people feel pressured into becoming a vegan in order to save the planet. That seems to be where we're headed though. And in the end, it might become a necessity.

 

Meanwhile, China continues to be the leading producer of CO2 Fossil Fuel emissions. On the bright side, it seems that their emissions are falling in recent years.

 

2014_emissions_0.png

Edited by RUSH
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1 minute ago, YukiRaven said:

2) You supplied no reliable evidence to counter my claims that meat has substantial amounts of B12 in it (and therefore a "source" in this context).  What you're doing is delivering misinformation.

Nowhere did I say that meat didn't contain any B12 to begin with, I said mammals don't create B12. So, I'm not delivering any misinformation to begin with, and you might wanna build your strawman somewhere else, because I'm pissed off by the fact that you have the audacity to tell me you can't take me serious when clearly you don't seem to read what I wrote properly.

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Stop arguing about B12, the taste of meat is way better than the taste of veggies. That's the only thing I need to know to keep eating meat.

 

EDIT: And about the environment and CO2 emissions, I buy local. You just have to stop voting for globalist politicians.

Edited by axdoomer
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24 minutes ago, axdoomer said:

EDIT: And about the environment and CO2 emissions, I buy local. You just have to stop voting for globalist politicians.

The production phase of food is what causes the majority of environmental GHG emission impact. 83% in fact, while transportation only accounts for 11 percent. Buying local doesn't solve the problem.

 

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es702969f

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40 minutes ago, axdoomer said:

Stop arguing about B12, the taste of meat is way better than the taste of veggies. That's the only thing I need to know to keep eating meat.

Then you're pretty uninformed. Taste isn't the issue - it's far from bending over backwards to make vegetables have equal or even superior savory taste than most meat, and heck mimicking the taste of meat isn't the hard part. What it comes down to is the texture of meat is what you can't find with vegetables.

 

Though you can find it with fish and other seafood, although that does come with issues such as overfishing as an industry and stuff like mercury poisoning as a diet.

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Oh gee, yay, we should stop eating meat because our trucks guzzle gas and our fridges require super deadly gasses to function. Yaaay.

 

Tell me guys, how much does a single swing with a cleaver damage the ozone layer? Must be a lot right, like, where would I go with the things later?

 

Have you fuckers ever heard of drying the meat? Or have you ever thought how did the people of old used to storage meat, before refridgerators? They would cover them with salt, smoke them, or add spices, depending on the type. Either way, if its the exhausts you are worrying about, you don't have to outright fucking ban meat from everyone in the world. You have to realize just what kind of moral damage you are risking. You are literally telling people who work in boatyards all day that they are having a handful of weird peas for lunch. Do they really care about how benefitial they are? Do they really care about how good they are as a replacement?

 

Yeah, you can use your arguments that law doesn't say anything, that meat processing harms the enviroment, that meat is in general heresy, this and that, but you aren't going anywhere with that 

 

Every time I go on internet and I see this I just flip out thinking how you guys simply don't care about the people, like whatever you impose on them should be a painful lesson. You think regular people are going to stand with your crap? No! This is just forceful feeding of strange beans. People aren't animals, no matter how much you drivel on how close we are. People have free will. Unless you have guns and biological weapons at your disposal, people won't give a fuck.

 

A solution I propose here in this special case? Teach people how to preserve meat WITHOUT fridges and electricity. Say that you are teaching them how to cut down on the electricity bill, and most people would be interested. Meat this way is often tastier, I know, I live in a community like this. Now if you are going to say importing salt and/or spices and making a fire inside a fireplace would harm the atmosphere you are just being too much cynical and worried, and when you get too much cynical and worried, you simply give up. One thing at the time. Start locally. Then grow. Then say gg ez.

 

Yeah there would still be trucks and planes transporting meat, but once people know how would they live on without trucks (have their own cattle), they wouldn't mind you banning them.

 

See? Now both sides should be happy.

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6 minutes ago, Battle_Kirby said:

Every time I go on internet and I see this I just flip out

The main problem of all similar discussions, methinks.

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1 minute ago, Da Werecat said:

The main problem of all similar discussions, methinks.

Just continue reading, you can handle a little irony can you?

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I'm worse at handling boredom, so I didn't get to the punchline, admittedly.

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6 hours ago, RUSH said:

Meanwhile, China continues to be the leading producer of CO2 Fossil Fuel emissions.

Well, this is a population problem... and cheap labor price I guess, so things are very likely to be "made in China".

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Or we could just do it the Cuba way: their "coffee" consists of at least 60% roasted chick peas. Por la revolucion!

 

In any case, the world is already too overpopulated to feed everyone without intensive farming and cultivation, and using trucks to move produce where it's needed. We can't all have enough land/fields to feed ourselves or our family or, worse, enough free-roaming range to live as hunters-gatherers anymore, unless you cut the world population down to something like 20 million and ban permanent settlements larger than 100 people.

Edited by Maes

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On 9/14/2017 at 7:13 AM, Benjogami said:

I feel like it's almost a good thing, because it's things like this that will finally make people care about climate change

I so badly want this to be true, but people have proven willing to warp reality to hell and back to justify their actions. I can already hear some talking head going on about how this is a conspiracy made up by Evil Scientists™ to trick the masses into thinking CO2 emissions are bad, when in reality God put it all here for us to burn as much as we like without consequence. Don't be fooled, fossil fuels do absolutely nothing bad to the air and environment in general, climate change is a myth, evolution is only a theory, gravity is a hoax, Earth is flat, 9/11 was an inside job. Make sure to like comment and subscribe!

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So, have any of you ever read a book on global warming? 

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16 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Earth is flat

See now I know you're not serious, because denying something like that would contradict basic logic.

 

Consider this: everybody knows that Cold War happened. But for it to happen we'd need Russkies, and if Earth was spherical then Russkies would be too busy trying to cling to it and not fall off to be a problem.

 

Then again, maybe it didn't happen after all, and it's all a big conspiracy. Have you ever seen a Russky? Are you sure they even exist? I think I'm onto something here.

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Doom doesn't even exist. We all pretend to have been playing it for years. It's all in our heads.

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33 minutes ago, Jthom said:

So, have any of you ever read a book on global warming? 

Thankfully one doesn't need to purchase a printed and bound book to research climate change. There's countless hours of reading to be done on climate change/global warming if you're actually interested.

 

Just last week an interesting article was published about how coastal cities are currently and will continue to deal with a consistent upward trend of flooding due to the overall sea level rising so drastically. This is a direct result of our frankly irresponsible use of CO2 - put simply, CO2 emissions are causing more heat to remain trapped in the atmosphere which in turn has had a staggering impact on the rate at which the ice caps are melting.

 

It's an extremely interesting topic with many aspects to tackle but I really do recommend that anyone and everyone should become more educated in regards to climate change. It may very well be our undoing, the least we can do is understand what's going to kill us before it does. As I alluded to earlier, I want to believe we're going to do something about this in a timely manner, but the fact is we simply won't. There's a horrible combination of apathy and misinformation being injected into the minds of the public.

 

Staunchly anti-climate change publications and programming always have a vested interest in you not believing in climate change. The people who write their checks are in bed with big oil as well as the advertisers who pay them for a slot. The agenda here is crystal clear and it's disheartening that so many don't see it or worse, have been fooled into thinking it's no big deal. They want you to be comfortable and not worry because that's the state in which you are most likely to buy what they're peddling which was mass produced using the very methods that have fucked up the environment in the first place. Their stranglehold on media allows impressionable minds to be molded exactly as they want. When they're on the fence, humans have a dangerous tendency to default to whatever is easiest, in this case, denying that climate change is an issue and simply continuing to function as we're used to.

 

Between all that shit and a generally apathetic attitude towards this extremely important topic, humanity faces a very steep uphill battle in the coming years. Hell, anyone who fancies themselves a capitalist should see the opening here for a booming new industry in alternate energy, but that's a whole other topic on it's own..

Edited by Doomkid
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If you do want a good book, then I can recommend With Speed and Violence. Written by a good communicator and scientist, and does an excellent job of explaining how climate change is much more than just sea level rise, and how the evidence from many angles shows how things could get dangerously out of control faster than humankind could deal with. Very readable, factual and insightful.

 

Originally published in the UK under the title The Last Generation. Same book, but lower price.

 

Edit: I should mention I have an MA in Applied Mathematics / Theoretical Physics, and didn't feel I was being talked down to by this book. Non-technical, but not dumbed-down.

Edited by Grazza
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Perhaps investing in alternate energy would help. Once the industry becomes big enough, it will be able to capitalistically "push out" fossil fuels. That is, provided no government goes full retard and subsidizes fossil fuels.

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@Grazza, Thanks for the recommendation, Im very much interested in the factual evidence behind climate change, specifically what effects we are seeing in the present day. Will check it out.

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5 hours ago, Battle_Kirby said:

Oh gee, yay, we should stop eating meat because our trucks guzzle gas and our fridges require super deadly gasses to function. Yaaay.

 

Tell me guys, how much does a single swing with a cleaver damage the ozone layer? Must be a lot right, like, where would I Have you fuckers ever heard of drying the meat? Or have you ever thought how did the people of old used to storage meat, before refridgerators? They would cover them with salt, smoke them, or add spices, depending on the type. Either way, if its the exhausts you are worrying about, you don't have to outright fucking ban meat from everyone in the world. You have to realize just what kind of moral damage you are risking. You are literally telling people who work in boatyards all day that they are having a handful of weird peas for lunch. Do they really care about how benefitial they are? Do they really care about how good they are as a replacement?

 

Yeah, you can use your arguments that law doesn't say anything, that meat processing harms the enviroment, that meat is in general heresy, this and that, but you aren't going anywhere with that 

 

Every time I go on internet and I see this I just flip out thinking how you guys simply don't care about the people, like whatever you impose on them should be a painful lesson. You think regular people are going to stand with your crap? No! This is just forceful feeding of strange beans. People aren't animals, no matter how much you drivel on how close we are. People have free will. Unless you have guns and biological weapons at your disposal, people won't give a fuck.

 

A solution I propose here in this special case? Teach people how to preserve meat WITHOUT fridges and electricity. Say that you are teaching them how to cut down on the electricity bill, and most people would be interested. Meat this way is often tastier, I know, I live in a community like this. Now if you are going to say importing salt and/or spices and making a fire inside a fireplace would harm the atmosphere you are just being too much cynical and worried, and when you get too much cynical and worried, you simply give up. One thing at the time. Start locally. Then grow. Then say gg ez.

 

Yeah there would still be trucks and planes transporting meat, but once people know how would they live on without trucks (have their own cattle), they wouldn't mind you banning them.

 

See? Now both sides should be happy.

That is the most bogus nonsense I have read in a long time, and none of what you say here remedies the problem that it takes too much surface area used to harvest crops to feed as many animals as is the case today. This is the most pressing issue with mass-meat production aside of CO² emissions, and even if you take CO² out of the equation entirely this problem still remains severe.

 

EDIT: Specifically for @NEANDERTHAL: No, alternative energy sources DO NOT HELP with the surface area issue.

 

And don't even try to tell anybody that we can simply "create" more fields for agriculture from out of nowhere, because you can't just grow everything anywhere you want, that's not how it works because soil isn't always fertile enough for agricultural purposes, and coffee would be one of many examples of how certain "crops" can't just grow anywhere. As a side note, mankind is merrily chopping down the rain-forest to acquire more surface for agriculture because otherwise we couldn't even grow enough crops at this point in time already. And even toddlers know what hinges on the rain-forest, namely our entire biosphere.

 

The actual pressing issues aside, there's a good reason people don't just dry meat, or bury it in salt these days, because obviously that is a lot less healthy than any other, more energy consuming method that is being used at the moment.

 

The reason the many well educated warning voices (scientists who know more about this stuff than you do) aren't going anywhere, is because for some reason some people couldn't be bothered to educate themselves on the subject, probably because they were much too busy stuffing themselves with meat while getting diabetes, having too high blood pressure, and becoming obese and all the lovely, healthy stuff. Living in blissful ignorance is a more comfortable solution, right? Which actually goes to show that it's these ignorant people who don't care about all the other people (yes, all of them), and I don't care anymore if it's blissful ignorance or spoon-fed lies, because people have a brain and there's no excuse not to use it. Your way of thinking is the reason things don't change. Simple as that.

 

And believe it or not the fact that all the stuff about surface area I explained earlier (which even YukiRaven couldn't argue against, not that she had much to present other than nitpicking semantics with a non-native speaker coupled with some insults, because actual standards are a rare feat in these trying times) ruins the entire biosphere for everybody on this planet is actually the same as pointing several nuclear warheads at your face while you're sitting at home having a slice of meat.

 

Besides, nobody said that people should stop eating meat entirely from one minute to the next, but it would be pretty swell if at the very least those who can't go a day or two without meat would tone their consumption down a couple notches in order to win some time for everybody, themselves included, but as it would appear even the primal instinct of self preservation fails when people have a plate full of yummy dead proteine.

 

And be careful with who you call a "fucker".

Edited by Nine Inch Heels
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I believe his response was supposed to be intentionally retarded. He pretty much admitted it later.

 

Your responses, on the other hand - I mean, the message itself is fine, but the amount of vitriol about equals that of a stereotypic vegan zealot who can't discuss these matters without throwing objects across the room.

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It's threads like these that remind me why I don't have these types of discussions anymore. We all came here because of a mutual interest, yet we're all shitting on each other over matters of opinion. It makes me take a step back, look at the human race, and lament that we'll never truly evolve emotionally. We've been acting this way for 10,000+ years, and nothing is changing. 

Regardless of what you eat, or what you believe, the earth is polluted and we've destroyed so much already. Even in the face of this catastrophe, we still won't change our attitudes. It all comes down to "I'm right, you're wrong, and fuck everyone else" and we continue to destroy what little civility we had left. 

When collapse DOES happen (and it will, the long slow descent has been happening for decades now) then maybe that will humble us all, and we all stop worrying about petty squabbling and start worrying about the thing that matters most: survival, and love for your fellow man. I'm not here to preach or anything, I need to show more love and show more restraint myself. But it just makes me sad that we can't talk to each other without getting mad and throwing around insults.

The human race will learn soon enough, and unfortunately, we'll all have to learn the hard way. 

 

"...Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world everyday. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head all the time." - John Coffey (no pun intended)

Edited by Neurosis
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17 minutes ago, Neurosis said:

But it just makes me sad that we can't talk to each other without getting mad and throwing around insults.

I think we can, it's just harder on the internet because I don't see your face when I'm insulting you.

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I gotta agree with Neurosis in that I wish it didn't always come to insults, but I still really enjoy reading and comparing all the different perspectives on the matter. Even if I disagree fully I still derive some entertainment out of it and it's always good to see how well various viewpoints hold up to scrutiny. Reading threads like this while trying to sort of internally subtract the insults and whatnot tends to be entertaining and interesting.

Edited by Doomkid
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55 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

I believe his response was supposed to be intentionally retarded. He pretty much admitted it later.

 

Your responses, on the other hand - I mean, the message itself is fine, but the amount of vitriol about equals that of a stereotypic vegan zealot who can't discuss these matters without throwing objects across the room.

You have a point, at the same I don't see how it's possible to be joking about these things when there's some actual problem involved that is anything but funny. I'm not one to candycoat anything, doubly so after getting purposely provoked and insulted for pointing out what is actually going on at the very moment, which by the way happened after the fact that I was willing and able to discuss things properly. That being said, I'm also not one to just "suck it up", let alone excuse myself for giving people a taste of their own medicine at least to some degree.

 

54 minutes ago, Neurosis said:

It's threads like these that remind me why I don't have these types of discussions anymore. We all came here because of a mutual interest, yet we're all shitting on each other over matters of opinion.

I generally agree with this, but there's a difference between opinions and facts, and some of said facts aren't comfortable or pleasant for that matter.

 

Threads like these usually start annoying me the moment somebody pushes the blame away to some abstract entity that isn't them, or waiting for somebody else to come up with a solution that makes it so they can complacently continue on with their daily routine in spite of knowing that maybe there's something about it that isn't good. Questioning one's own consum-habits, and changing them according to the current situation in order to make a difference (and maybe be a role-model of some sorts), is the only game in town.

 

Posting some oh-so-witty gifs, or arguing with me over semantics, because I used the word "source" where I should have used the word "origin" in order to "win" a discussion against a non-native speaker (me in this case) is gonna do monkeys though.

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