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Praetor

Looking for some input on my map

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So I haven't made a map for quite some time, and I've been playing through some DooM WADs again, namely CannonBall's and it inspired me to whip up this short slaughter-map style map. I mainly just wanted to also use Duke Nukem's theme song in a map.

 

It's called Doomin', and it's meant to be played with GZDoom. Currently, there are no difficulty options, but I playtested it on Ultra-Violence.

 

I'd really appreciate some criticism on the texturing and monster placement. I think compared to my previous maps, this is a massive improvement, but it still kinda sucks. I give it like a 4/10 personally, but I am also a terrible critique when it comes to my own stuff.

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ekgj4mt586gxunt/Doomin'.wad

 

SVmzCgG.png

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dld3aQx.jpg

:D

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1 hour ago, genericpainelemental said:

great wad! the duke nukem theme fits it perfectly!

Thanks :)

I got some input from a friend of mine who said I should try to tone down the Yellow area a bit, and I also should retool the Arch Vile trap. Right now I'm starting work on an E1 replacement. Hope it's good.

 

I'm real pleased with how the map turned out though, even if it is kind of eh.

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After the first 15 seconds or so, I was surprised that you rated the map 4/10 -- that was a short bit of enjoyable rocket spam. But soon after that, I sort of got why. The next two or three minutes was somewhat tedious -- you use the single shotgun to clear up the surviving monsters and the two rooms of lost souls and spectres that pose basically no threat given how much space there is and can be easily camped from anyway. Then a reasonably enjoyable fight against a vile trio, and a bit of grinding through pinkies and hell knights with low-tier weapons (at this point I didn't know just how lenient the rest of the map was with ammo, so I saved the 10 or so rockets I had for something more threatening). This early segment could be strengthened quite a bit by either giving a free berserk pack (since presumably you want to tie the SSG to one of the hubspokes) or a lot more rockets in the first area, something like 20-30. Again, none of the combat with the single shotgun is interesting -- so you aren't losing anything by doing away with it. 

 

The problem with the areas afterwards, except maybe the SSG trap, wasn't that they are easy (which they are but isn't inherently a problem) as much as they are underwhelming. By that I mean the scads of ammo create the expectation of combat that will be a lot more intense than it actually turns out to be. It felt like I was playing something I already knew to be fairly engaging on UV, but instead on HNTR or a fairly toned down HMP. The pinky fight was a cool spectacle but it could use something else going for it in the way of threat, because the lost souls are cleared out quickly and the pinkies too go down fast with the crusher. Perhaps lots of imps and HKs warping in too. The red key fight, just HKs and pinkies with ample pockets of space. Could use mancs, revs, 'trons -- more interesting projectile monsters. The map ends up with a number of fights against barons that could be revenants instead. One in particular is fought through a door that is open-close; open-close doors tend to result in awkward fights where you shoot for a bit then have to stop to re-open the door then shoot for a bit, and so on.

Usually maps that are flawed have many types of problems scattered all over the place, lots of minor ones in addition to the major ones, but the good news is this one has basically two highly 'concentrated' problems -- lack of a 'zerk or more rockets early, and too little intensity in the middle and end -- and can become a 7/10 map (to borrow your self-ratings) without too much work.

 

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17 hours ago, rdwpa said:

After the first 15 seconds or so, I was surprised that you rated the map 4/10 -- that was a short bit of enjoyable rocket spam. But soon after that, I sort of got why. The next two or three minutes was somewhat tedious -- you use the single shotgun to clear up the surviving monsters and the two rooms of lost souls and spectres that pose basically no threat given how much space there is and can be easily camped from anyway. Then a reasonably enjoyable fight against a vile trio, and a bit of grinding through pinkies and hell knights with low-tier weapons (at this point I didn't know just how lenient the rest of the map was with ammo, so I saved the 10 or so rockets I had for something more threatening). This early segment could be strengthened quite a bit by either giving a free berserk pack (since presumably you want to tie the SSG to one of the hubspokes) or a lot more rockets in the first area, something like 20-30. Again, none of the combat with the single shotgun is interesting -- so you aren't losing anything by doing away with it. 

 

The problem with the areas afterwards, except maybe the SSG trap, wasn't that they are easy (which they are but isn't inherently a problem) as much as they are underwhelming. By that I mean the scads of ammo create the expectation of combat that will be a lot more intense than it actually turns out to be. It felt like I was playing something I already knew to be fairly engaging on UV, but instead on HNTR or a fairly toned down HMP. The pinky fight was a cool spectacle but it could use something else going for it in the way of threat, because the lost souls are cleared out quickly and the pinkies too go down fast with the crusher. Perhaps lots of imps and HKs warping in too. The red key fight, just HKs and pinkies with ample pockets of space. Could use mancs, revs, 'trons -- more interesting projectile monsters. The map ends up with a number of fights against barons that could be revenants instead. One in particular is fought through a door that is open-close; open-close doors tend to result in awkward fights where you shoot for a bit then have to stop to re-open the door then shoot for a bit, and so on.

Usually maps that are flawed have many types of problems scattered all over the place, lots of minor ones in addition to the major ones, but the good news is this one has basically two highly 'concentrated' problems -- lack of a 'zerk or more rockets early, and too little intensity in the middle and end -- and can become a 7/10 map (to borrow your self-ratings) without too much work.

 

Thank you so much for the input!

I did some major revisions to a few fights, and I replaced the file on Mediafire with the revised map (also now includes a mapinfo :3), let me know whatchu think.

 

One of the problems I have with fight design is I tend to think that things will be way too frustrating/hard so I dial back my instincts to place certain monsters by like 60%. This time I went ahead and just went all out, but it kind of feels spammy now at a few points.

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Definitely better. Now that the berserk is free, and with backpacks already laying around, the secret could give something stronger. I left the map with 300+ cells, despite using 90% RL and PR in the key paths and spamming the PR somewhat indiscriminately at times, so you can probably remove two or three bulk cells. In certain types of spam maps, 'practically limitless ammo in excess of what could possibly be used' tends to feel natural and like a conscious design choice (many maps in New Gothic Movement 1 and 2 come to mind), but in slaughter-lite stuff with more reined-in monster usage, it can feel more like an imbalance, or rather 'I still have a bunch of cells, where are the monsters I was supposed to spend them on?'
 

On 9/16/2017 at 7:42 PM, Praetor said:

One of the problems I have with fight design is I tend to think that things will be way too frustrating/hard so I dial back my instincts to place certain monsters by like 60%. This time I went ahead and just went all out, but it kind of feels spammy now at a few points.

Players with slaughter experience would find this quite tame, and far from spammy; and I think players who prefer lower monster counts would probably find it spammy in places, but probably not too frustrating. It should be pretty accessible as is, though. When you are designing encounters, you sort of have to rely on your own impressions. If it's engaging for you, it'll almost certainly be engaging for at least some subset of the community, but if you dial certain things down to the point where it feels 'eh' for you, then determining whether anyone else would enjoy it comes down to guesswork and speculation.

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I don't particularly like slaughter-type maps, but I found this to be alright. The look of the map is nice, and there are interesting parts, like near the beginning I was literally down to 1 health and heard hitscanners, so I knew I had to be careful and was pretty sure I was toast. I was also in some danger in one of the rooms because I almost got surrounded by demons, but managed to find a way through. But overall I found it too easy upon getting the plasma gun. Once I picked up the 6, I only switched to the rocket launcher once, and it was not for lack of plasma. I did not use the super shotgun once.

 

So I think you made a solid map that just needs a bit of work on item placement.

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OK, just a few quickloads later:

 

Map is fun, but I suggest dropping some more medikits for poor players like me :)

Uncautious playing + poor skills = many quickloads :)

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