Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

[NOTE: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT BE OVERLY INSULTING OR RUDE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS. THIS IS A TOPIC THAT HAS THE POSSIBILITY TO BECOME A DUMPSTER FIRE, AND I DONT WANT THAT.]

I've noticed a lot that many people seem to HATE slaughter maps. Why? I mean, just look at this quote by a guest: "I cannot even begin to express how much I loathe these idiot slaughter fests. How old are the authors? 12? Sick to bloody death of downloading garbage like this and having hopes of an enjoyable game pissed all over. Mark crap like this for what it is - idiot overkill crap."

I'm not even gonna mention the fact that this anonymous person decided to insult age, because that's not the point right now (though I am quite upset about that, because teens and pre-teens aren't all horrible).

But honestly, what's so bad about these slaughter maps that they're considered to be for "dumb children"?

EDIT: I don't have an opinion myself on slaughter maps, this is more of a discussion about them.

Edited by Flareblood_V2
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The main "legitimate" criticism I hear concerning slaughtermaps is that they are tedious, involving nothing but 10 full minutes of circle strafe + rocket spam. To this, I would argue that if the only slaughtermaps you've played have been like this, then you haven't played any good slaughter maps. This is not uncommon, since those who don't actively seek out slaughtermaps are going to run across those attempts by non-slaughter mappers. These tend to be lower in quality, simply because the artist was trying his hand at something outside of his/her niche (which is a commendable endeavor, BTW).

 

The other criticism I hear is that they get tired of using the same weapon for all those hours on end. While most slaughtermaps do use the rocket launcher and the BFG almost exclusively, these weapons are interesting enough to keep the gameplay rolling for some. I understand if it's not your cup of tea, but please realize (hypothetical sir or madam) that it is fun, challenging, and satisfying for many people.

 

And to the anonymous critic quoted: How old are you, 11? Seriously, people need to learn how to write an honest-but-respectful review.

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I was just about to write down exactly that. What @Memfis said exactly sums up my opinion of them.

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They tend to be very annoying to play.

 

Zombies can pretty much always chip at your health because there's not a lot of cover and there are a lot of them. When we are talking ten chaingunners on sniper perches in a large room, it's brutally difficult.

 

Your computer lags from the sheer number of monsters and you find it even harder to avoid countless imp and noble fireballs. Revenant rockets inevitably follow you in one large mob like angry bees, killing you instantly if you so much as reverse your strafe. Arachnotrons, cyberdemons, and any other rapid fire monster can pulp you.

 

TLDR: when it gets to the point that replacing every monster with a trooper makes it still impossible, you know the map will be shit.

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2 minutes ago, Rifle Infantry said:

Revenant rockets inevitably follow you in one large mob like angry bees, killing you instantly if you so much as reverse your strafe.

Pro-tip: don't reverse your strafe.

 

3 minutes ago, Rifle Infantry said:

TLDR: when it gets to the point that replacing every monster with a trooper makes it still impossible, you know the map will be sh*t.

Troopers are actually dangerous in large numbers, because they are hitscan. Replace the word "trooper" with "imp" and now you have a valid point.

 

18 minutes ago, Memfis said:

Hordes of monsters look ridiculous. Slaughter maps lack the atmosphere of the original Doom.

 

18 minutes ago, Memfis said:

All the copypasted detail can't hide the fact that the rooms are essentially big boxes with some pillars here and there.

It is obvious that you place heavy emphasis on the appearance of a map, which is a perfectly valid opinion. But some of us don't care so much about the atmosphere and immersive settings, and are willing to trade it for the chance to kill 1000+ monsters in under a minute. Good thing there's something out there for all of us! :-)

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I find them boring and tedious. I like maps with a little bit of everything: combat, labyrinth navigation, and some amount of tactics. Even if I were proficient playing slaughter maps I don't see how they could continue to be interesting for more than ten seconds. It feels like a novelty.

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38 minutes ago, Memfis said:

Slaughter maps lack the atmosphere of the original Doom.

Or does original Doom lack the atmosphere of slaughter maps?

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I know at least one member of the community who would wholeheartedly express herself on this topic. 

 

Everyone has different tastes of course, it seems to me that player just is butthurted because they don't know how to approach those kind of maps. Slaughter is one style that has become popular among speedrunners for the sake of enjoying a murderfest that provides them a new challenge and win in the shortest time possible. This is what I generally see, then there're people like me who like infighting scenarios, casual BFG/rocket spamming, etc. Of course, slaughter is not for everyone, and it's important to point out in a mapset which maps are oriented to this or that style, so the player is aware of what is out there and, try it out or avoid it. I've seen people complaining about mapsets that start easy and turn into abominable slaughter later, or maps that are "impossible" without cheating because of quantity. From my point of view, slaughter does not equal boring/horrible/any negative words, as long as the maps provides enough resources to tackle everything that's around you. I understand if someone gets pissed off or frustrated because they can't even pass the first room of a slaughter map, it can happen to anyone, but to the point of hating or saying that's crap, I mean, it's obvious the person didn't even make an effort, so they bash the wad in a immature way. If other people can, and had fun, you can also have fun, you just need to make more effort than you would in, say D2TWID, because that's the point of slaughter. And if you don't enjoy it, leave it, maybe you (whoever) should have read the .txt file, the wad's thread, or wherever is specified that the maps are/include slaughter, and you could have saved a lot of frustration and disrespectful "reviews".

 

I have not played so many slaughter maps, but from what I have experienced, choosing slaughter is a major step and, to me, the most interesting slaughter maps are the ones that make every single monster of the doom bestiary shine in their own. That is to say zombiemen, lost souls, queen spiders and any underrated enemy. Yep.

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One more thought: There is a natural tendency for people to think that any genre of art is "all the same" when they have no appreciation for it. Not blaming anybody -- I do the same. Country music "all sounds the same" to me, since I have no appreciation for it. However, I like blues music, even though a lot of my friends & acquaintances tell me it "all sounds the same" to them. Blues does not sound "all the same" to me, because I do have an appreciation or a taste for it.

 

Similarly, I easily get bored with Doom 1 styles of mapping, where room follows hallway follows room follows hallway. I didn't even finish the first Doom, because I found it dull and repetitive, until I played it months later in co-op with a buddy of mine. I have no appreciation for that style of mapping, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. However, each slaughter fight feels unique to me, based on variables like layout of the arena, location of monsters, movement of monsters, placement of health and ammo, etc. For example, the fight may seem mundane until you realize that your circle-strafing caused you to bury the ammo cache in hell knights... well played, mapper! Now you have to think of a different approach.

 

... But I realize that I can't explain appreciation for a certain art form into anybody's mind. That's fine, you like what you like; I'll like what I like; let's not have any drama or vitriol, OK? :-)

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Slaughtermaps did nothing wrong is the new trend apparently.

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I didn't realize they were frowned upon :P

 

They aren't to my taste, personally, however I do enjoy maps which have slaughter sections (MAP07 of Titan 2 comes to mind immediately).

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1 minute ago, CapnClever said:

It also doesn't help that balancing such encounters to be just challenging enough to be interesting without being tedious, overwhelming, or luck-based is incredibly difficult

It's no more difficult than any sort of map design, for a mapper familiar with the genre. A lot of people get caught up on monster counts without recognizing that DPS ratios matter just as much. A fight where the player takes on a horde with limitless rocket and cell ammo can be just as quick as one where a player takes on a few dozen monsters strung-out using the chaingun or super shotgun. The mapset Rush is a good example of this -- it's a slaughter set where typical completion times will be faster than a conventional map occupying a space of the same scale. Some people envision rocketing 200 hell knights in an arena, when that isn't really characteristic of active trends in the genre at all.

 

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58 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

I know at least one member of the community who would wholeheartedly express herself on this topic.

We know who :)

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I think the problem is that there are alot of really shitty slaughter maps out there that cover up bad detail with hordes of monsters.  Also there are alot of slaughter maps that really have no rime or reason to the monster placement at all.

There is a huge difference between a good slaughter map and a bad one and I think there are just too many poor examples of slaughter maps out there atm.

 

I personally like slaughter maps because their more fun in multiplayer than most single player wads.

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40 minutes ago, mrthejoshmon said:

It is because they are a niche style of map that only a specific section of the community enjoy.

Basically, yes. All of the rest will also enjoy a specific type of maps, which is understandable.

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As someone who enjoy slaughterish setting, but isn't too deep in them to play something like slaugtherfest or swim with the wales (or even sunder, since i've only beaten 3 maps), i can say that they are interesting, often requiring a degree of mastery of the game that just isn't there for most doomers. People more capable than me already said what had to be said about it: not for everyone, often misunderstood.

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I would add that we need to remember that one person's dislike of slaughtermaps doesn't always mean (or should mean) they disrespect them or feel they shouldn't be made.  They definitely are a style that I'm not fond of, but I respect the work that goes into them and support their creation.  The only thing I would take offense to is if my or others' non-slaughter maps were not given this same respect for the simple fact they aren't slaughter maps.

Edited by YukiRaven
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They can look truly fantastic, and they're the only kind of map where god-tier MIDIs like Dragon's Revenge will crop up.

Gameplay wise, most of the time I just simply don't enjoy them, they're usually too difficult even on HNTR and my interest isn't high enough to bother trying to figure out strategies on how to beat them. I'd rather just play a normal WAD instead.

 

Also discussions over why slaughtermaps are objectively good or bad and what defines a slaughtermap often get way out of hand imo :P

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I don't like slaughter maps (for the most part) because they're just the same fight repeated over and over. Often it's blocks of Knights and Imps that pop up. If not, a horde of Revenants with a couple of Arch-Viles hiding behind them. Or a swarm of chaingunners. Of course there is a BFG, five hundred energy cell packs and four invulnerabilities. 

 

It's not the challenge I'm looking for. It doesn't mean they don't make excellent stress release for other players.

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I don't like non-slaughter maps (for the most part) because they're just the same fight repeated over and over. Often it's knights in 32-wide corridors and imps on Mt. Everest that you have to blow peas with a straw at. If not, a revenant with an archvile that want to be your friends. Or a chaingunner hiding in a closet. Of course there is a single shotgun, a googleplex shellboxes but no rocket ammo.

 

It's not the challenge I'm looking for. It doesn't mean they don't make excellent stress release for other players.

 

Edited by rdwpa
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To elaborate on the last sentence of my prior post, I think people are often too quick to dismiss them, however on the flip side I think people can get a tad too defensive of them as well.

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Something I've noticed in discussions about slaughter maps: the loudest, most aggressive voices are people who don't like them.  Don't like it, don't play it; a seemingly lost concept.  

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I'm kinda in the middle of "slaughter tastes" because I've been discovering those maps like Sunlust, Sunder, Chillax, SF2012 and others. Some of them I enjoy it quite a lot, even when I play it modded (which can spice up the difficulty btw) and others are just maps that abuse the amount of monsters or are plain bad in their execution.

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23 minutes ago, Eris Falling said:

what defines a slaughtermap often get way out of hand imo :P

Well, this is what I was going to ask, but TBH, there won't be an outcome that fits everybody's taste.

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