WIP Limit-Removing Megawad Crossbearer (Hiatus)

[asøkldjnfsxdlkjhnfb xdkljs]

im playing thru gzdoom,loaded with zdl,and after finishing map 4 i started in the default map 05.

also,how on earth do i get to the mega armor secret in map 4???couldnt even find it with noclip...

[HAK3180]

@ddmeltzer8, 18 of the maps are mine but they're not all in order. They are 1-4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 13-15, 18, 19, 21, 22, 25-27. I think a few of the others are just barely started but the rest you'll just get the Doom 2 levels. Just use IDCLEV. They are all supposed to be pistol started anyway.

 

Megaarmor secret in Map 04:

Spoiler

There is a small switch in the double mancubus room that temporarily opens a wall to the northwest that leads outside.

 

[Zolgia108]

Part 1 (map 4 and most map 26)

 

 

End of map 26

 

 

Sorry, as usual, for the audio and for my english :)

[Clippy]

Here they are! you've been so generous to play My maps I'm going to definitely give these a try and make some videos haha

[HAK3180]

@Zolgia108, great, I didn't know you were gonna do videos. Good footage and thanks a lot for playing.

 

Some thoughts, if you wanna read all my rambling:

Map 04

Spoiler

• The remaining monsters were in a secret. The spiders cannot be killed by Doomguy but are instantly crushed right before you exit. See the megaarmor spoiler a few messages up.

• When you wanted to glide, that gap is only 28. I always look for this, but one day I will probably overlook one, and then I just might leave it in just for fun.

• The “instant death trap” is pretty tough if you try to fight it, but you can very easily drop down to avoid them. And if you do, you can come back to kill them later.

 

 

Map 26

Spoiler

• I don’t mind inescapable pits if they are so close to the beginning or if they are clearly death. This would be the former. Nowhere else in the level is the lava inescapable.
• At least one other player couldn’t find the rocket launcher. I have already moved the first one out to be a little more visible. Maybe I will move it some more. I must give you credit for powering through.
• “What was the point of [the platforming section]?” 25 extra rockets, which would have benefited you greatly in the big revenant/baron fight.
• Red key – you actually got it twice in runs that ended in death. I will move that somehow – maybe put it on a little table or something
• “Second death trap” – yes, pretty much. But you are warned pretty clearly that it’s gonna be tough if you do not get that invulnerability. The trick is, as we know, to make the yellow key a little easier to get.
• The puzzle: As far as I know, only rd has solved it, but without actually working out the hint. I’ve been thinking about how to change it, but I’m not sure yet. When you first tried blue green blue red, you did it right (besides noclip), but you had your back turned to the shootable switch that was revealed. If I could make it so that doing the switches alone would open the yellow key door, I would, but I don’t know a way to do that with the setup I used.
• In general, your early frustration with not getting the rocket launcher led to you not exploring areas that would have built up your supplies earlier. Eventually you explored every nonsecret area except for one that had health, 10 rockets, and 150 bullets. Still, you managed, as is the design even if you are on hard and skip a lot, but my maps usually feature optional areas. You tend to be more straightforward (with some exceptions). Just remember my favorite iwad maps are Industrial Zone and Odyssey of Noises.

 

 

@Clippy, Cool, have fun. Check out the change log in the OP to see which maps are newer. About half are...not the greatest.

 

[Zolgia108]

1 hour ago, HAK3180 said:

@Zolgia108, great, I didn't know you were gonna do videos. Good footage and thanks a lot for playing.

 

Some thoughts, if you wanna read all my rambling:

Map 04

  Hide contents

• The remaining monsters were in a secret. The spiders cannot be killed by Doomguy but are instantly crushed right before you exit. See the megaarmor spoiler a few messages up.

• When you wanted to glide, that gap is only 28. I always look for this, but one day I will probably overlook one, and then I just might leave it in just for fun.

• The “instant death trap” is pretty tough if you try to fight it, but you can very easily drop down to avoid them. And if you do, you can come back to kill them later.

 

 

Map 26

  Hide contents

• I don’t mind inescapable pits if they are so close to the beginning or if they are clearly death. This would be the former. Nowhere else in the level is the lava inescapable.
• At least one other player couldn’t find the rocket launcher. I have already moved the first one out to be a little more visible. Maybe I will move it some more. I must give you credit for powering through.
• “What was the point of [the platforming section]?” 25 extra rockets, which would have benefited you greatly in the big revenant/baron fight.
• Red key – you actually got it twice in runs that ended in death. I will move that somehow – maybe put it on a little table or something
• “Second death trap” – yes, pretty much. But you are warned pretty clearly that it’s gonna be tough if you do not get that invulnerability. The trick is, as we know, to make the yellow key a little easier to get.
• The puzzle: As far as I know, only rd has solved it, but without actually working out the hint. I’ve been thinking about how to change it, but I’m not sure yet. When you first tried blue green blue red, you did it right (besides noclip), but you had your back turned to the shootable switch that was revealed. If I could make it so that doing the switches alone would open the yellow key door, I would, but I don’t know a way to do that with the setup I used.
• In general, your early frustration with not getting the rocket launcher led to you not exploring areas that would have built up your supplies earlier. Eventually you explored every nonsecret area except for one that had health, 10 rockets, and 150 bullets. Still, you managed, as is the design even if you are on hard and skip a lot, but my maps usually feature optional areas. You tend to be more straightforward (with some exceptions). Just remember my favorite iwad maps are Industrial Zone and Odyssey of Noises.

 

 

@Clippy, Cool, have fun. Check out the change log in the OP to see which maps are newer. About half are...not the greatest.

 

i completely agree with what you said about map 26, but in that moment i was a bit confused so i couldn't think straight^^. I saw the video again and yes i had the key but really i didn't even notice! I remember you loving odissey of course, i love that map as well, when i said "what's the point of this platforming" i said it because i still couldn't progress in the level and i was sure that was the right way :) Anyway, all in all it was a very good map!

[Clippy]

 

[HAK3180]

@Clippy, excellent. Thanks for the footage.

 

Some random, although in order, comments below:

Spoiler

• "Some maps not very good" – yes, this wad contains both my very first attempt at Doom mapping (summer 2017) and stuff I released this month.
• I did originally intend a continuous play, so some of the earlier maps still have remnants of that balance. That soul sphere in Map 01 was originally at the end of the level. Now it’s near the beginning, but you found it at the end anyway, haha
• I agree – the whole continuous design but pistol start is a little odd, but I just kinda wink and nod and say, “it is what it is.”
• Is 4 the magic number of secrets? No, but I love secrets, and I have a hard time putting fewer than 3 in any map – usually 4-6.
• “Would you be offended if I cheated?” Never! Always cheat to save time; just don’t break the map.
• In Map 03 in the shotgunner vent or whatever, there’s actually not a block line. It’s just an awkward jump that has to do with Doomguy’s height. But there’s nothing in there anyway other than the sergeant’s ammo
• Map 03 was not your fault – well not entirely. There are two switches that incrementally raise the nukage. Once you press both, the exit area becomes accessible. However, they only raise 24 units at a time, I think, and it’s not all that noticeable. At some point I hope to try making that whole area lower so that the levels can raise more noticeably. Nice job maxing it anyway.
• “Your maps are fine.” – Just wait until you get to the teens…

 

[Clippy]

Yeah when I said your maps are fine that probably doesn't sound like as much of a comment as it should have haha. usually when I play maps by anybody I find things to complain about but I had no issues with these maps. They're well balanced I don't remember being low on health or ammo or getting unnatural progression of enemies and stuff. I was pretty hurting in map three for health but I attribute that to my slackluster playing. I really enjoyed that third map and the look and feel of it. I'll definitely play some more of these down the road 🤠

[666shooter]

I like the idea of a more traditionally-styled Megawad that isn't focused on extreme difficulty but engaging gameplay, and I can see you've put a lot of work into this so far. I will follow your thread to see how things develop.

[Zolgia108]

i just played map 11 and it was really awesome m8.

Video is uploading. Great stuff.

[Zolgia108]

 

[HAK3180]

@Zolgia108, very good. Map 11 can be a little confusing, but you worked out everything fine. You only missed one nonsecret area that would have given you a chaingun a little earlier. I’m glad you recognized the rocket launcher issue. Those are supposed to be little monitors. It’s like my crap limit-removing version of a cutscene. Someone else found that earlier. I swear I made that impassable already, but obviously not. 
 

The final fight worked out very well; I really enjoyed that. And you had a nice run in that first wild fight too. I loved how you somehow let both Mancubi down the lift back to back with 1 health and still took them down like a champ. After that fight, there’s health and ammo where those mancs come from. Most players have not found it, but most do not fight the arch-viles either. I may change that up slightly and a few other things. 
 

good stuff. 

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

So, seriously, how could I have missed this project? The person who gave the largest amount of feedbacks in my entire "mapper's career" and I still haven't played what he made himself? I feel like an asshole, tomorrow I will have a day off - I will go through the first 5 or even 10 maps from this project.

[Soulless]

3 minutes ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

So, seriously, how could I have missed this project? The person who gave the largest amount of feedbacks in my entire "mapper's career" and I still haven't played what he made himself? I feel like an asshole, tomorrow I will have a day off - I will go through the first 5 or even 10 maps from this project.

 

Same situation here, Ill stop mapping for a while so I can play the atrocious amount of megawads, and single maps in my "not_played_yet" list.

[HAK3180]

31 minutes ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

So, seriously, how could I have missed this project?

 

I pretty much only bump this when I have new maps, and sometimes I'll get feedback via PMs, so the thread does a pretty good job of staying buried. And of course the quality didn't really take a major turn for the better until about a year in, in my opinion.

 

Not to worry. I've stated before there is no stated or implied quid pro quo, but I'll be glad to have your thoughts and/or footage. 

 

 

JUST FOR A CURRENT PAGE UPDATE:

This wad has 18 maps completed, but not 1-18. They are 1-4, 6, 7, 10, 11, 13-15, 18, 19, 21, 22, 25-27. I would say the quality began to stabilize about 9 or 10 maps in, so you may also be interested in the release order, which is, from first to most recent:

Spoiler

13, 1, 18, 2, 14, 15, 22, 19, 10, 3, 6, 25, 7, 21, 11, 26, 4, 27.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by HAK3180

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

9 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

 

I pretty much only bump this when I have new maps, and sometimes I'll get feedback via PMs, so the thread does a pretty good job of staying buried. And of course the quality didn't really take a major turn for the better until about a year in, in my opinion.

 

Not to worry. I've stated before there is no stated or implied quid pro quo, but I'll be glad to have your thoughts and/or footage. 

 

Oh, I see. It’s more of my curiosity actually, because I don’t remember that you also had projects and then i accidentally found this post. I'm not a professional map critic, and so probably most of my feedback will be based on the received emotions. (Most of the attention will go to the gameplay, because I'm still learning how to do it in maps)

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

@HAK3180 All feedback in one video as you wished, thanks for waiting :0

 

 

[HAK3180]

@MAN_WITH_GUN, First of all, wow, your production skills put me to shame. Very efficient way (for the consumer - looks like a lot of effort for you) to render feedback and I really loved the dramatics at the end of Map 06. The music, the slow motion, the zoom in on the health, the pause before the teleport sound, the Final Fantasy win music – that was literally perfect, dude. Oh, and trashing the computer was great.

 

Some more thoughts below:

Spoiler

Map 01

• When I first started mapping, I often made rooms way too big. The outdoor area is too big. The first indoor room is probably too big (and used to be completely empty). The circle room with the armor used to be way bigger also. And you're right: outside needs more color or lighting.

Map 02

• I go back and forth on this map. Some days I hate it; other days I think it's okay. It definitely needs some work at some point.

Map 03

• You were halfway into a secret and didn’t find it, hahaha.
• Yes, good point about the block lines on the arch-vile.
• No super shotgun, but you had over 60 cells when you exited!!!

Map 04

• In general, I love single shotgunning, so I sometimes don’t give up the super shotgun in places where people would expect it.
• You missed a few rockets, but mostly it’s shotgun / chaingun / berserk.

Map 06

• It’s weird because it’s a dream. Remember the bed from Map 04? 5 and 6 are both dreams.
• I cannot put any suits, or else player will be able to make it from beginning all the way around. I can maybe make the gaps a little smaller or put a little trail of health though.
• Map 06 is still one of my favorites, and I made it quite a long time ago. Nice work on the lava run. The health is closer on easier and medium, but you just made it!

 

You had some good points about a number of things. Thanks a lot.

 

If you plan to play more, I'll warn you that although the wad never gets extremely hard for long stretches, there are some much tougher moments coming, and the first one is toward the end of Map 07, especially if you don't find the secrets. I'm not sure about the balance there yet, so we shall see.

[Soulless]

@MAN_WITH_GUN, excellent video buddy, had a lot of fun.

I loved the mapset @HAK3180, specially map03 and 04, Im going to wait for the final release to play it all at once.

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

I am glad that you liked it despite the simplicity of the montage itself, because I did it in 1 day :0

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

You were halfway into a secret and didn’t find it, hahaha.

 

Well, I played blind, and I didn't try to find most of the secrets.

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

No super shotgun, but you had over 60 cells when you exited!!!

 

But this does not negate the fact that you can give the player SSG at least before exit the level, especially for map04 with its tough start.

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

In general, I love single shotgunning, so I sometimes don’t give up the super shotgun in places where people would expect it.

 

I also like the regular shotgun more, but until the moment from map04, where the regular shotgun doesn't help against tons of monsters. Optionally, you can add a couple of medikits in the level, but I didn't feel any discomfort about this.

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

It’s weird because it’s a dream. Remember the bed from Map 04? 5 and 6 are both dreams.

 

Even if it's a dream, the map fits very well in the hell style. Very pleasant color contrast and doesn't hurt the eyes at all.

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

I cannot put any suits, or else player will be able to make it from beginning all the way around. I can maybe make the gaps a little smaller or put a little trail of health though.

 

Oh, I got it. Good point.

 

16 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

Nice work on the lava run. The health is closer on easier and medium, but you just made it!

 

And even in one try, baby! But I wouldn't make this part of the level mandatory, it would looks better as the secret, where for such an ordeal you are rewarded with a lot of good shit.

 

 

 

Don't worry about the next maps, I've tested wads even on Nightmare :v

[MAN_WITH_GUN]

8 hours ago, Soulless said:

excellent video buddy, had a lot of fun.

 

Thanks, me as well :0

[Clippy]

 

[HAK3180]

@Clippy, very nice. I'm glad you got some enjoyment out of at least one of these. Some thoughts below:

 

Spoiler

Map 04

• “four shotgun shells [in the two-mancubus cove]? I wanted more stuff.” Hmmm, maybe look a little…closer…

• “slight misalignment there – I thought it was a secret.” Hmmmmmm. Maybe the real question is not whether but how...

• The remaining enemies were in a secret - the manc-related one, actually. The spiders die immediately via crusher as you near the exit for the sake of kill percentage. If you're looking at your kill count at the right time, you can see it jump up 10 very quickly. You “actually” kill the spiders in a later map.

Map 06

• It will not get any more gimmicky than this, except perhaps in Map 31/32. Map 04 ends in a bed, yeah? Well, Map 05 and 06 are dreams. You will fight "those" arachnotrons in Map 07 (of course).

• The shotgunners when you got stuck and totally glitched out the map - I’ve never seen someone skip that trigger line before, but once I looked in the editor, I see I did make a rookie mistake there. When you flew the second time, you definitely bypassed where the line was, so you only skipped it once; it’s very unlikely to happen, but yeah, gotta fix that.

• I should make that jump a little farther. It is intentionally too far to SR-50, but it's only just barely out of that range, if I recall correctly.

• You stare directly at a secret at 33:24, which was some of those ledge goodies. The main thing doing videos like this has confirmed for me is that stuff is not as obvious to the player as to the mapper.

• You evidently forgot that you picked up a BFG at the beginning of the map. The signature place to use it is the big trap in the arch-vile room, but it can also be handy in the damaging floor area with sergeants and lost souls. You never pick up more ammo for it, so it's just the one shot.

• Where are you from, Canada?

 

[Clippy]

Spoiler

Nice I guess I thought something was a secret but because I couldn't open it assume it wasn't but never found the real trigger . Nice to crush monsters that can be missed I like to do that too 

 

Ohhh it's a dream nice. I thought the bed exit was unique 

 

Glad I found something for you to fix. I mean it sux you have to fix it now but good to know a bug is resolved

 

I don't think that jump is possible I tried a few times. Even if it is it's a minor shortcut

 

I miss some secrets yeah but everyone plays different. Sometimes I miss obvious things haha.  Yes I probably forgot I had the bfg 

 

I'm from the east coast of Canada :) 

 

Also both maps were fun and I like the look of em. Everyone has preferences and I'm bad at platform / fall into acid maps. Also I got distracted while playing the end of map 6 

 

That megasphere in lava Labrinth was great I see now why you hated what I did in brutal breakout 

 

Good times I'll keep playing through curious to see what is next 

 

 

 

 

[Clippy]

Uploading vid of map 7 ... I am sorry to report I could not beat it. I am starting to feel like I suck at doom these days maybe I should go play solitaire instead

 

 

[Clippy]

Update: I tried some more without commentary cause I hate to give up on things, but boy oh boy did it give me a hard time

 

 

[HAK3180]

@Clippy, thanks for playing. This is a map that has been tested very little by people who are not me. You may actually be the first to show any evidence whatsoever of having played it.

 

“Why is there half a button there?” That area is identical to the end of Map 04, including the pressed switch. Spatially, Map 07 picks up from the end of Map 04 and will ultimately have a proper intermission screen before it.

 

The nukage was escapable once upon a time, but that leads to some cheesing options. It ends up being a little cheap, but I say this falls under “beginning of map” exception, since the whole map is quite short.

 

My strategy against the spiders is to use up the rockets very quickly, preferably taking out an entire side of spiders. After that it’s better to rotate which spider you shoot at with the super shotgun (as you did near the end), rather than focus on one at a time. You get the rocket launcher right before that room, which is my attempt to (A) force you to save your rockets and (B) let you know what weapon to use.

 

I’m not sold on the number of rockets or the secrets being so helpful in general (other one is those three extra rockets), but I like the core idea. It’s a boss map, so it’s a little different – much more strategy oriented than usual for me, and probably in the top 3 moments difficulty-wise in the entire wad so far. But it’s also short enough that if I eventually want to do something more creative for the 7-slot, I probably won’t really feel bad about dumping this one.

 

But now is as good a time as any to say that I do implement difficulty levels pretty thoroughly. On Ultra-Violence, you really don’t get away with missing with rockets (12 rockets has to be 4 dead spiders) or wasting health or taking too much time. In this map on medium, the spiders are all there, but there are fewer imp fireballs coming in, and with the secrets you found you would have entered the fight with 200/200 and 15 rockets instead of 12, plus an additional 50 health in the arena.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

I will wait until the wad is finished before doing videos of the maps. I wonder if they are doable with Hard Doom.

[HAK3180]

7 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I wonder if they are doable with Hard Doom.

 

I avoid gameplay altering mods and I'm not familiar with this one, so I have no idea. But broadly speaking, these maps aren't near the upper echelon of difficulty.