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HAK3180

[New Maps 22 July 2021] WIP Limit-Removing Megawad Crossbearer

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@Clippy, very nice. Thanks for playing. The last secret was in the cave, a subtle, but somewhat intuitive spot the difference kind of thing. The multipress switch is there because once upon a time, this map was going to be compatible with coop play. I should get rid of that. And those hell knights should probably not be deaf. You handled them all quite easily by focusing on the baron right away. If the baron scares you back to the hell knights, that can be a pretty sticky encounter. The ammo was a little off for a little bit there primarily because you horded rockets during the wide open parts and then understandably didn't want to use them in the tight parts. I might be okay with that or I might change it up slightly.

 

Map 11 is one of my favorites, but it is the longest map in the wad so far with over 300 enemies and a UV-max time of ~15 minutes if you know exactly what to do. It is quite nonlinear and does have the potential to be a little confusing toward the beginning, but people have fared better than I thought so far, and no one's gotten lost for very long at all.

 

Maps 13-15 are easily the worst of the wad, 13 being the first map I ever made, and 14 and 15 being equally long and amateurish. If you play those...let's just say there's zero chance those maps make it as is into the final product. 

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@Clippy, excellent, thanks for playing. Some stuff below:

 

Spoiler

4:45 – rotten luck – you had that rocket dead to rights and yet end up losing 80.

 

10:40 – I had no idea Doomguy could fit in there. Never occurred to me. I don’t think that messes with anything though.

 

13:55 is one of the potential progression issues. If you don’t notice the bars rising, you can end up wandering for a bit.

 

~15:00 – the double revenant fight in close quarters becomes three revenants if you complete the other side first, because you will have a super shotgun and plasma gun, rather than just chaingun

 

~15:55 – you’re supposed to remember that there’s a rocket launcher that looks exactly like that in the big empty room. And you realized this later when the same thing happened with the plasma gun.

 

Yeah, you could have gotten the rocket launcher a lot earlier, but by not doing so, you save the ammo for the big blue key fight.

 

~33:40, the little platform is a switch that crushes the hell knights for you. Otherwise the secret is just an alternate path.

 

The secret you were very interested in near the end:

Spoiler

 

You shoot into that room from a window in the huge room near the end. You can just barely see the switch from the proper angle, and you can actually see the switch clearly way earlier from the berserk secret. This one actually becomes missable once you hit the switch to lower the final fight. I believe it's the only secret in the wad so far that ever becomes missable.

 

The other secret you missed was the computer area map fairly early. I have no idea how you missed it; you were humping away apparently everywhere but where it was.

 

 

~45:00 “that’s a retarded idea” – it seemed to work decently well, haha There are a number of ways to tackle that fight. Probably the most boring is to save a bunch of cells and just stand and shoot her. The map is kinda designed so that you don’t enter that area with much plasma on a blind run. Another viable strategy is to take super shotgun potshots as you run among the rising and lowering pillars that offer temporary cover. The whole idea there is numerous spots of temporary cover but nothing cheesable. The only cheesable area is from the arch-vile room, but to do that, well, you have to dispatch four arch-viles first.

 

11 is actually my fourth newest now, after 27, 4, and 26. The most encouraging thing in my mapping these days is that when I compare maps of a year ago to now, I see pretty even quality. That was not the case a few years ago. And the evidence of that will be the next maps you play...

 

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Spoiler

Wow I didn't realize revenant damage was so high. Bad luck indeed for such a high damage chance

 

I thought the lift pit was intentional as a safer way down cause if lowered the lift to have two rooms attacking me at once that would have hurt

 

As for that secret shootable switch ... Wow I see it plain as day when I check my own video. Funny what you miss in game but can plainly see later   . also I see in my video that I looked right at the second lift lowering at the start and I totally missed it when I was live

 

Yeah that last arena fight was wonderful and it was big and open and I did try to hide in all the places I shouldn't have. I always try to find a place to get away if I can and you block me with the archviles and I even tried to open that fake door lol    . Very cool and surprising how you made the whole final arena transform in an interesting way. I really want to gander at this in the editor

 

I was surprised that the berserk punch to the spider mastermind was so effective. but I think she was also getting hurt from the imps and she was only going to be distracted for so long. I really didn't think that the run that involved me punching the spider mastermind was going to be the successful one haha. I think I was 6% health before soulsphere grab

 

I had a lot of fun for sure

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Clippy

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@Clippy, great, thanks for playing. Some nostalgia there for sure.

 

13

  • The 3d bridge was not there in the original. I modified this map up until at least a year after I made it. Original was slightly more confusing, even uglier yet, more empty, and more boring.
  • The cyberdemon fight is awkward and not particularly fun. Getting the blue key is what I marked as secret. When I first made the map, I decided that I wanted to work on the map in the megawad that will be the first BFG sighting (also a secret) and the first cyberdemon sighting. As much as I like the idea of this map being included in some way, a lot would have to change.

14

  • Most of this map was originally SP_ROCK. It was, and still is, an alignment nightmare.
  • The concept here, obviously, is a no-keys map, and there are only two mandatory switches, originally one. I like the basic idea here (mostly natural and very straightforward), but I think I will ultimately make this thing shorter and even more linear, and, of course, better.

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Played the first three maps earlier this afternoon, my video will be up sometime within the next two hours. I'll go more in depth with my thoughts in the video, but I gotta say that I loved map03. Greatly looking forward to continuing this WAD.
Edit: 

Here it be

 

Edited by BluePineapple72

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Sup

 

I wanted to play doom this morning and thought my best bet was to play more of your maps, good call! I had a lot of fun with 15 but ESPECIALLY 18 which is my fave map of yours. The whole concept was golden and executed well, I will want to play this one again

 

Here is my video you can watch if you want when you have free time - terrific stuff buddy

 

 

Decarcerate is the opposite of incarceration LOL. English is not my first language except it is 🥴

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@BluePineapple72, excellent footage. Thanks a lot. And "Bottom line" save file - I love it. Some stuff below:

 

Spoiler

Map 01

  • This was my second map. It has undergone some changes, but mostly visual.
  • Open space is a recurring theme in this wad, but you’re right – it’s not done well here. That whole outside area needs to shrink considerably.
  • I never consider automap checking as cheating. I make sure the automap doesn’t give stuff away unless I want it to. Well, I’ve gotten better at that now anyway.
  • The secrets are weird in this map. I originally planned a continuous wad, and that was reflected in the secrets, so I had to change them. But they are awkward and pointless.
  • I would highly recommend against continuous play. It won’t be a massive difference in 1-4, but it would be noticeably significant in 10-11 and 13-15 and 18-19 and totally game-changing in 21-22 and 25-27, not to mention that once the wad has all 32 maps, there will be major problems. I could just do 30 death exits, but I feel that’s even more a turnoff than boring/unbalanced gameplay.

Map 02

  • This was my fourth map. Again, almost all the changes have been visual. You have some good ideas in that regard
  • You owe me (or somebody) $3.

 

Map 03

  • This was my 10th map and I pretty much consider this and Map xx (to be revealed when you play it, haha) the delineating border between maps that are at least decent and maps that need lots of work, especially considering that this is about when I stopped majorly tweaking old maps
  • Lighting is probably the single most noticeable difference between my “intermediate” stuff and very recent work
  • Early map tech base = you seem to have forgotten about your plasma gun toward the end
  • I really like the nukage concept. Some have not noticed it when hitting the switches, but if you see what’s happening, I think it’s really cool.
  • “new mappers either design too small or too big.” Yep, I was category B. I realized that fairly early and so my stuff got smaller/tighter. Then I took some major steps in actually understanding combat, so I started to bring back bigger areas, but they’re much improved.

 

@Clippy, look at you go! Thanks again. Glad you had some fun with these. Gameplay is not as bad as I sometimes think, especially after all the upgrades over the months. More below:

 

Spoiler

15

  • Your dedication to hording rockets and cells is remarkable. It reminds me of myself years and years ago playing Doom 2 continuously.
  • The wimpy secret you found was on your way to the secret exit. There was one other thing you had to do in a completely different part of the map. I’m definitely not sold on the secret exit setup.
  • The soulsphere is not a secret because the sector is small, basically, but give yourself 3/10 rather than 2/9. Actually, three secrets are chained to other secrets, including the secret exit.

18

  • This map was formerly called “Prison Break” as a sort of placeholder. I've never actually seen the TV show.
  • I think it’s a good idea to mix up rewarding cowardice and rewarding recklessness, both in terms of how Doomguy tackles encounters and how much and how fast exploring is done.
  • I do like the atmosphere and flow of this map. It’s probably my favorite of those infamous first 8 or so, and it really has not changed a whole lot. There are some awkward fights and movements, but I’ve become more and more convinced that this one will not need to be scrapped.

 

19 is supposed to be dark, but if you can’t see at all, adjust as needed.

 

21 can be pretty tough. Very beginning and very end are the worst, but it’s a decent challenge all the way through. Give yourself some time for this one, as it’s also decently long.

 

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Yeah I do tend to hold on to my rockets and plasma for the oh shit moments haha. My weapon of choice is definitely the double shotgun or the single

 

As for prison break to be honest I never saw that show either but it just fits so perfectly that I had to make a funny thumbnail with it

 

Man you better not scrap that level I'm telling you it is amazing I don't have enough words or descriptive skills to properly explain how awesome I think it is

 

It was a very pleasant surprise the whole experience and feel of breaking out of a prison room to take on the whole area was great. The detail in all the rooms inside and stuff too. I loved every minute of it. This is a big stand out map for me due to the very unique experience

 

 

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Okay, i'm working on part 2 of my playthrough, but i want to ask you something about the spider fight right now @HAK3180 : Are you really tested it? I mean why it's so unfair to the player and unforgivable?


1) No hide spot at all, you just gonna be screwed.
2) If no hide spots then where's the health? There's too much going on for 4 medikits if u ask me.
3) Where's the ammo for that fight? I found both secrets and still have pretty low ammo for everything except maybe some shells.
4)And. . . *sigh* . . . just test this map more, the start of the map is fine, but this fight. . . it's just like "how to ruin everybody's day".

 

Maybe it's beatable if you'll be try like one hundred times but in the end of the day i just said "I don't care" and turn up IDDQD. I'm sorry, but this fight was completely pissed me off and in the video you'll see that.

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20 minutes ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

Okay, i'm working on part 2 of my playthrough, but i want to ask you something about the spider fight right now @HAK3180 : Are you really tested it? I mean why it's so unfair to the player and unforgivable?


1) No hide spot at all, you just gonna be screwed.
2) If no hide spots then where's the health? There's too much going on for 4 medikits if u ask me.
3) Where's the ammo for that fight? I found both secrets and still have pretty low ammo for everything except maybe some shells.
4)And. . . *sigh* . . . just test this map more, the start of the map is fine, but this fight. . . it's just like "how to ruin everybody's day".

 

Maybe it's beatable if you'll be try like one hundred times but in the end of the day i just said "I don't care" and turn up IDDQD. I'm sorry, but this fight was completely pissed me off and in the video you'll see that.

 Haha I think it took me 20 to 25 minutes of constant miserable failure to get through that segment and it's really the only stuff in all of crossbearer that I've experienced so far that I didn't like 

 

Other than that this is a pretty solid map set I'm excited to play the rest of them I'm on the 20s now

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2 minutes ago, Clippy said:

 Haha I think it took me 20 to 25 minutes of constant miserable failure to get through that segment and it's really the only stuff in all of crossbearer that I've experienced so far that I didn't like 

 

Other than that this is a pretty solid map set I'm excited to play the rest of them I'm on the 20s now

 

For this mapset it was a bad surprise, no offense. After that I took a short break for my continuous playthrough...

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3 minutes ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

 

For this mapset it was a bad surprise, no offense. After that I took a short break for my continuous playthrough...

 I agree to encounter this kind of adversity in map 7 is certainly discouraging to the player 

 

I assure you this is by far the hardest (or must seemingly unfair) encounter I've seen in these maps without even a close runner up 

 

Stick around and get past this speedbump a lot of fun maps ahead!!

 

 

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@MAN_WITH_GUN, did you not like it because it was too hard or because you thought it was bad mapping? If the former, did you try medium or easy? I'm sure I'll have more to say when I see your footage, but for now, I did a demo in which I am very inefficient with ammo, even in the spider fight. I also got neither secret and left a box of shells and some health in the spider room (there are 5 on Ultra-Violence, not 4). I also entered the spider room with only 56 health.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

@MAN_WITH_GUN, did you not like it because it was too hard or because you thought it was bad mapping? If the former, did you try medium or easy? I'm sure I'll have more to say when I see your footage, but for now, I did a demo in which I am very inefficient with ammo, even in the spider fight. I also got neither secret and left a box of shells and some health in the spider room (there are 5 on Ultra-Violence, not 4). I also entered the spider room with only 56 health.

 

 

 

Impressive video with a well executed strategy but you also have the map makers edge

 

But place yourself in the shoes of someone playing this map for the first time 

 

I like your work you know I'm honest but I agree with this being very uninviting especially for a map 7 - feels like it's beyond ultra violence difficulty. 

 

Feel free to take more opinions on this but I feel the difficulty Spike here is excessive and a turn off and takes away from the greatness of your overall wonderful mapset 🙂

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22 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

@MAN_WITH_GUN, did you not like it because it was too hard or because you thought it was bad mapping? If the former, did you try medium or easy? I'm sure I'll have more to say when I see your footage, but for now, I did a demo in which I am very inefficient with ammo, even in the spider fight. I also got neither secret and left a box of shells and some health in the spider room (there are 5 on Ultra-Violence, not 4). I also entered the spider room with only 56 health.

 

Okay, this place is beatable, I believe you. But even with tactics, look at how much health and ammo you have left, it's just ridiculous especially for blind run - they'll kill you faster than you'll figure out what's going on, that's what is called "unfair". (Btw my first death in this section when i was fall off the platform where we got teleported and i died VERY slowly in damaging sector, also seems for me kinda cheap)

I mean c'mon, what you gonna lose by giving us the soulphere and just lil bit more ammo?

 

But yes, you better see it in the video and then you'll understand why I absolutely didn't like the balance there.

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20 hours ago, MAN_WITH_GUN said:

Okay, this place is beatable, I believe you. But even with tactics, look at how much health and ammo you have left, it's just ridiculous especially for blind run - they'll kill you faster than you'll figure out what's going on, that's what is called "unfair". (Btw my first death in this section when i was fall off the platform where we got teleported and i died VERY slowly in damaging sector, also seems for me kinda cheap)

I mean c'mon, what you gonna lose by giving us the soulphere and just lil bit more ammo?

 

But yes, you better see it in the video and then you'll understand why I absolutely didn't like the balance there.

From watching HAK's video, the balance seems fine - he was extremely wasteful with ammo on purpose yet only ran out at the very end, the health provided for the spider fight seemed enough to deal with that section fairly comfortably as well.

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22 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

From watching HAK's video, the balance seems fine - he was extremely wasteful with ammo on purpose yet only ran out at the very end, the health provided for the spider fight seemed enough to deal with that section fairly comfortably as well.

 

Have you tried playing this directly? I think the general argument here is that this requires a much steeper and harder learning curve than a lot of the other maps which takes away from the fun and is surprising for a map 7 in terms of difficulty. I played most of these so far and this was the only one that stuck me dead in my tracks haha

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36 minutes ago, Clippy said:

Have you tried playing this directly? I think the general argument here is that this requires a much steeper and harder learning curve than a lot of the other maps which takes away from the fun and is surprising for a map 7 in terms of difficulty. I played most of these so far and this was the only one that stuck me dead in my tracks haha

I tested it now, it's harder than it looks but still very much doable consistently. The difficulty is to be expected considering it's on UV.

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1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

I tested it now, it's harder than it looks but still very much doable consistently. The difficulty is to be expected considering it's on UV.

 

Agree UV should be difficult but from my experience and now man with gun it seems exceptional even with UV. No other map comes close to this overly frustrating trial but gimme time to try the 20s haha 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Played another one of your maps. After having a pretty easy go at map 19 suddenly every part of this map was quite challenging but in a fun way. I love the look and feel of this map and at every point I was in peril so I saved often because I also didn't want to take too long playing this but here it is. I actually seem to have had the least adversity with the big finale and this is where my hoarding of certain items came in handy haha

 

 

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@Clippy, great! Thanks for playing.

 

21 is the second highest monster count, but probably more total HP than Map 11.

 

“You’re not just going to let me have that key” – I think it’s very important to vary these four possibilities: trap expected = trap, trap expected = no trap, trap not expected = trap, trap not expected = no trap, especially within a mapset, but even within a single map.

 

Last fight – I seldom do full lockdowns where you 100% must fight, but I often encourage the player to stay and fight with either supplies or just a natural appeal to pride.

 

I definitely do monsters in secrets. There may have been a stray somewhere, but I would guess at least 7 of the remaining 9 were in one secret. For more on that, please watch 49:07-49:09 in slow motion. You came very close to one of the other secrets as well.

 

This map started as an Oblige map. More info on that process here.

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@HAK3180 interesting I've heard of oblige but I have no experience with it. Interesting how you were able to convert it into use for this map set sounds like it just helped with the basic design but you did all the rest to make it yours with your own monster and item placement and textures etc. I always like maps where you can grab the keys in any order to get to the finish line . This is a great introduction to Hell maps I liked it. The pressure was on from the opening bell when I was constantly on my toes this entire map. I'll have to look back and try to find those secrets you're good at hiding them. You know how much I love secrets

 

I think at this point there's four maps or so I'll try to finish them. 

 

 

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If I may comment on something, @Clippy - having watched quite a few of your gameplay videos by now, I feel you'd profit greatly if you'd pay more attention to sound cues and their direction via stereo sound.

Both regarding to noticing opening of monster closets and preparing yourself for more trouble, and especially regarding secret hunting.

 

Easy example from this map21 video that "I've just seen that raise back up, how does that open..." moment. When you pressed the trigger the first time, the switch-clunk and platform movement noise began immediately. But you continued through the room, turned around, and barely noticed the lift raising back up visually.

But similar situations of me almost knocking over my popcorn bowl and going "Dude, over there, this is the secret, PLEASE notice it again" when watching your videos are... not rare. :)

 

And that's totally off topic, but while I'm talking here, thanks for your videos, both of you, @Clippy & @HAK3180.
Yours are some of my very favourite ones because of the sort of "casual review and feedback" tone you do. In different ways, but both great. :)

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@wrkq thank you for the feedback. I'm not a professional like @HAK3180 and I'm not really good at giving full-on reviews and advice - I'm more just playing to play for fun and record my experience and hope that's helpful in some way to the authors

 

I want to play these maps anyway so I figure why not go ahead and record myself doing it. 

 

But yes I do tend to miss things and not hear things properly I don't have a proper stereo surround system I just play on my TV monitor with a laptop hooked up to it. Actually sit back and a recliner with a wireless keyboard and mouse setup it's pretty sweet - sometimes there's a cat on my legs

 

Hey I'm glad you enjoyed my videos and sorry if I frustrated you with my ineptness haha

 

one of the hardest things I find when recording is trying to get all the sounds right. I'm always worried that my microphone isn't coming in loudly or clearly enough or the music is too loud and it tunes me out or the sounds also might not be adjusted right which is why I might not always hear things or notice things 🥴 

 

I don't think what I hear when playing is the same as the sounds that come out in the finished video because for that situation you described I sincerely didn't hear anything even when I clicked the necessary trigger to lower the wall that's why I was confused. 

 

in conclusion I got to figure out how to adjust things better so I can perform better

 

again thank you for the feedback and it's nice to know that people watch my videos of me bumbling around in these maps I have a good time

 

 

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No stress, no pressure. You're playing for fun, don't feel obligated or anything!

If your room's sound setup is an issue, then well, that's very much a valid excuse for missing noises.

I've been playing games on headphones for last 20 years, so I didn't even consider the option of TV speakers on the far side of the room.

TVs tend to muddle the stereo horribly, too. :(

Just keep having fun, okay?

(also, you have some /cute-tastic/ cats - but we're going even further offtopic from HAK's maps...)

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