Dr. Sleep was the best mapper.

[Job]

To my knowledge, he isn't currently active, but some of the best maps I know of were crafted by the venerable Dr. Sleep. Everyone has their favorite, but this one is mine. Of course, a declaration like that is an invitation to dissent or debate.

[Soundblock]

.wad OG #1

[Linguica]

Instapop monster traps are canon thanks to Dr. Sleep. Thanks Dr. Sleep! Theep!

[RjY]

Dr. Sleep was the best mapper

E2M2 is the best map

Contradiction: Dr. Sleep didn't make E2M2

[Memfis]

The most copied lighting pattern ever!

 

[Marcaek]

i like that one map with the hallways and criscross lighting

 

no not geryon, the other one

[bioshockfan90]

Ahead of his time? Yes. The best mapper? Nahhhh...

 

I'd give that title to quite a few mappers both today and back in the day... maybe I'll compile a list sometime. 

[Csonicgo]

Dr. Sleep created a lot of mapping cliches whether he meant to or not.

[Uncle 80]

Oh yeah! Crossing Acheron 1 & 2 and that other map I can't think of ATM (edit: Dante's Gate). Those were revelations among the random pwad downloads back in the day

Edited September 27, 2017 by Uncle 80

[Job]

27 minutes ago, Csonicgo said:

Dr. Sleep created a lot of mapping cliches whether he meant to or not.

Like they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Cipher]

For whatever reason his levels in The Ultimate Doom and The Master Levels have never done it for me. They're well-crafted, but none of the encounters or areas stand out to me. It's all incredibly sound, but a little indistinct? Maybe he does something for mappers that he doesn't for people just playing the game.

 

Milo Casali is the best '90s mapper.

 

I like that this thread contains a wild "Look Around You" reference.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Cipher

[Cynical]

I think the only Dr. Sleep level I've ever played was E4M7.  It didn't make much of an impression.

 

The best '90s mapper (and possibly the greatest ever, although I'll admit he does have some stiff competition from Erik Alm and Huy Pham) is Yontan Donner.

[NeedHealth]

I know I read that there were rumors of dr sleep somehow getting hold of id's internal mapper. I've elaborated on this in an other post.

[Job]

3 minutes ago, Cynical said:

I think the only Dr. Sleep level I've ever played was E4M7.  It didn't make much of an impression.

 

The best '90s mapper (and possibly the greatest ever, although I'll admit he does have some stiff competition from Erik Alm and Huy Pham) is Yontan Donner.

I'd recommend trying Sleep's stuff from the Master Levels.

That said, shame on me for forgetting about Erik Alm.

[NeedHealth]

So quoteth thus NeedHealth himself -

 

Semi on topic -- reading the doom wiki about Dantes Gate by John Andersson (Dr.Sleep) and that he created the map at a time when primitive tools were publicly available - it really rattled my brain and a though came up. I dimly remember reading about accusations that he had gotten hold of id softwares in-house mapED at some point in time but I don't know where to start looking to find where I read that.

[Soundblock]

2 hours ago, bioshockfan90 said:

Ahead of his time? Yes. The best mapper? Nahhhh...

 

I'd give that title to quite a few mappers both today and back in the day... maybe I'll compile a list sometime. 

There was absolutely no one there to touch him when he released his first two maps, to my memory.

[valkiriforce]

For me it's Jim Flynn & Bob Evans. Their puzzles/designs fascinate me like nothing else I've ever played. For a vastly underappreciated genre of mapping. Makes me wish I'd taken the time to making more maps with this mindset. Who knows, I may yet...

 

Dr. Sleep is also good. I liked his Master Levels contributions. And Sverre Kvernmo, Tom Mustaine, the Casali brothers, so many to choose from...

[Steve D]

I definitely like Dr. Sleep, but for me, the greatest '90s mapper is Michael Krause. His epic-scale Bauhaus Lego architecture in maps like Run Buddy and Moon 2000 is right up my alley, and IMO Krause does not get enough credit for his influence. He was definitely among the earliest mappers to design convincing load-bearing structures, and he did it more extensively than anyone else I can think of.    

[Cipher]

9 hours ago, valkiriforce said:

For me it's Jim Flynn & Bob Evans. Their puzzles/designs fascinate me like nothing else I've ever played. For a vastly underappreciated genre of mapping. Makes me wish I'd taken the time to making more maps with this mindset. Who knows, I may yet...

 

Dr. Sleep is also good. I liked his Master Levels contributions. And Sverre Kvernmo, Tom Mustaine, the Casali brothers, so many to choose from...

I like Jim Flynn's and Sverre Kvernmo's Master Levels contributions a lot. They're two of the only authors I've played so far who manage to do really interesting exploration/architecture-based levels while also keeping the gameplay engaging. That's a hard balance. (I haven't managed to beat any of Kvernmo's levels on Ultra Violence yet, but that's a positive if anything.)

 

To elaborate on my Milo Casali nom' earlier, now that there's a full breakdown of the Plutonia contributions out there, I think it's clear he was the one doing slightly more to drive the wad's flavor, whereas Dario's entries (which would be the best part of any other wad, and in fact are in Evilution) are just sliiiightly more conservative, without taking anything away from them. I think his best entries in the set kind of pick up on the vibe Milo was laying down and run with it.

 

Both of them were pulling a nearly Erik Alm-pace as far as level creation too, albeit with (I think) more primitive software and a slightly more polished aesthetics, which is crazy, and without any filler-feeling levels in the set.

[Maes]

Nonsense. All the cool kids know that the best mapper was King REoL.

[vdgg]

1998 Voting went:

(Adelusion won)

Tastes change.

Dr Sleep was outstanding for sure, though I don't dare to pick "the best".

My favourite 1995 maps:

Gather MAP04 by Daniel Norman

Gather MAP05 by Daniel Norman

Minos by Dr.Sleep

Obituary MAP09 by Thomas Moeller

Torment MAP01 by Shamus Young

For 1996 such a list would have +20 entries I guess :)

[Paul977]

Dr. Sleep was among the best of his time for sure; Jim Flynn was also a top mapper of that time (Titan Anomaly is a crazy level). My favorite map of Dr. Sleep is Vesperas

[Maes]

21 hours ago, NeedHealth said:

So quoteth thus NeedHealth himself 

Well, in hindsight, today we know that even if that were the case, it would probably have given him no advantage whatsoever -it's not like DoomEd could create layouts which were impossible even with first-version DEU. If anything, it would have forced him to learn a completely different workflow from the community  "standard".

 

Kinda like a corked bat in baseball... it's banned and yet there's no clear proof of any advantages (or at least so said Mythbusters), except maybe a psychological one.

[sesq]

it sounds like he mostly just did things first? and relatively well for the time

 

which for me isnt really what the best looks like then again i rarely pay attention to who mapped the thing im playing, i should probably do that more 

[cybdmn]

21 hours ago, Maes said:

Nonsense. All the cool kids know that the best mapper was King REoL.

All the old asses, was what you wanted to say.

[Maes]

1 hour ago, cybdmn said:

All the old asses, was what you wanted to say.

More like old farts, but I get your drift.

[DizzyDude]

He's good, but always found him to be overrated. Even back then I felt his maps were nothing all that special. There's nothing in his maps that make me go "wow, holy shit"

 

So yeah, think he's overrated and forgettable. If he wasn't there at the start, I don't think anyone would be talking about him today.

 

I think the Casilo brothers made way better maps in that era. People have mentioned Jim Flynn in this thread, and even his map stick out due to there puzzly elements moreso than anything Dr Sleep ever did. Playing The Interdiction Zone back in 95 was most certainly "wow" for me, and showed what others could do with Doom level design.

Edited September 29, 2017 by DizzyDude

[Job]

I forgot to add that Christen Klie is also a superb mapper. His Master Levels contributions are gripping. Mustaine as well. 

[DizzyDude]

9 minutes ago, Job said:

I forgot to add that Christen Klie is also a superb mapper. His Master Levels contributions are gripping. Mustaine as well. 

I view them the same as I do Dr Sleep, they made good maps, but there's noting that really sticks out to me and makes me go "wow!" Not to troll these guys, but I just feel like they get highly praised even today because they were there at the start.

[Job]

I don't really have any regard for timing, just an appreciation for their aesthetic style and approach to mapping.