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Marlamir

Complete iwad list

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On 30.9.2017 at 7:03 AM, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Was DOOM II Shareware ever planned?

Doom II was planned for distribution in the retail market, like Spear of Destiny was.

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You know, in the archive, there are quite a few PWADs marked "IWAD". Maybe some older tools let the user change the identifier, or maybe the wad author started with their IWAD, and deleted most of the lumps, before adding new lumps to the file!

 

I don't have a list right now, but I might be able to compile one after I rebuild my WAD database.

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Shadow of the Wool Ball can run standalone with WIGZDoom, and that engine is comes with Daytime Drama.

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I forgot to add Doom Hack, Project SSS: Sonic Speed Streak, Hedon, ZBloody Hell, Daytime Drama 2 (Sequel to Daytime Drama), Memoirs of Magic, The Forestale, Blade of Agony, Darkest Forces, and Mighty Knight.

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Again sorry for the very late response. However, Doom hack is more patch than iwad(you still need official iwads for this). I wasn't able to run project sss (gzdoom give me pickup sound error) so i cant confirm if this is iwad or not. Darkest forces and mighty knight  are not rellease yet so it's not added to list.

Thank you for your reply.

 

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On 11/29/2017 at 1:34 AM, kb1 said:

(...) there are quite a few PWADs marked "IWAD". Maybe some older tools let the user change the identifier, or maybe the wad author started with their IWAD, and deleted most of the lumps, before adding new lumps to the file!(...)

 

ehhh...you are aware of the fact, that any dumb hex editor can do that?!?

It's just a one byte change from "I" to "P" ...

 

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Also, speaking of the IWAD list, we need to add "Rise of the Triad: Dark War" - since EDGE validates it and work is ongoing to support the game.

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6 hours ago, DoomGater said:

 

ehhh...you are aware of the fact, that any dumb hex editor can do that?!?

It's just a one byte change from "I" to "P" ...

 

Of course. Thanks for pointing out the obvious... And, the files in question were not changed 'from "I" to "P"', they were changed from "P" to "I".

In a thread were the OP is asking for a complete IWAD list, I found it pertinent to mention that there are a lot of files marked "IWAD" in the archive - most of them erroneously so.

 

So, ehhh...what's your point?

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7 hours ago, kb1 said:

Of course. Thanks for pointing out the obvious... And, the files in question were not changed 'from "I" to "P"', they were changed from "P" to "I".

In a thread were the OP is asking for a complete IWAD list, I found it pertinent to mention that there are a lot of files marked "IWAD" in the archive - most of them erroneously so.

 

So, ehhh...what's your point?

 

Oh I thought it's obvious, indeed...but ok, here we go: , you wrote "Maybe some older tools let the user change the identifier,"  and I just pointed out, which kind of tool is necessary.

BTW: If you want to be pointy, please be also precise.

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If you want to be pedantic about it, then TNT.wad should not count as an IWAD since it is a PWAD.

 

Now can we instead agree to use IWAD and PWAD in a prescriptivist, not descriptivist, manner? When people talk about a complete list of IWADs, they want to talk about a complete list of data files that can serve as stand-alone games for a Doom engine port.

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1 hour ago, DoomGater said:

I just pointed out, which kind of tool is necessary.

No, you described *a* tool, not *the* list of tools, and did so in a way that suggests that I needed schooling - heh. My guess is that some people changed the identifier by mistake, possibly using a lot of tools. My homemade WAD editor allows this, for example.

1 hour ago, DoomGater said:

BTW: If you want to be pointy, please be also precise.

Not sure what being 'pointy' is. But, I don't need to be precise. The tool used doesn't matter. The fact that badly-marked WADs exist may matter, which is why I brought it up.

 

6 minutes ago, Gez said:

If you want to be pedantic about it, then TNT.wad should not count as an IWAD since it is a PWAD.

 

Now can we instead agree to use IWAD and PWAD in a prescriptivist, not descriptivist, manner? When people talk about a complete list of IWADs, they want to talk about a complete list of data files that can serve as stand-alone games for a Doom engine port.

I don't know - to me "IWAD" means that the file can stand alone and allow the engine to launch, without requiring any other WAD file. Again, that's why I mention the files in the archive - it may matter to someone compiling a 'complete IWAD list.'

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1 hour ago, kb1 said:

I don't know - to me "IWAD" means that the file can stand alone and allow the engine to launch, without requiring any other WAD file.

Yes, we agree then.

 

Which means that whether the file's signature is IWAD or PWAD is entirely irrelevant to whether the file should be considered an IWAD or a PWAD, because it doesn't matter to the Doom engine.

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IWAD or PWAD signature is the same exact think to the engine.

 

	// WAD file
	read (handle, &header, sizeof(header));
	if (strncmp(header.identification,"IWAD",4))
	{
	    // Homebrew levels?
	    if (strncmp(header.identification,"PWAD",4))
	    {
		I_Error ("Wad file %s doesn't have IWAD "
			 "or PWAD id\n", filename);
	    }
	    
	    // ???modifiedgame = true;		
    }

 

But users consider IWAD as wad files with all the assets to run the game and PWAD as wad files with some extra content (but not complete game).

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@Coraline So i tried to make it run on gzdoom (don't blame me :)) and no success(what a surprise i guess). How well is rott playable on edge?

 

P.S. Guys let's calmdown with iwad and pwad discussion until it's get out of controll shall we? Let stay with simple iwad is standalone and pwad not shall we?

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12 minutes ago, Marlamir said:

@Coraline So i tried to make it run on gzdoom (don't blame me :)) and no success(what a surprise i guess). How well is rott playable on edge?

ROTT is kind of an edge case* in that yes, it is an archive in the WAD format, but it's for a completely different game engine which uses incompatible data formats for sound, graphics, maps, and miscellaneous data. EDGE can play ROTT because it has support for all these things, making EDGE effectively a combination of a Doom port and a ROTT port instead of just a Doom port.

 

*pun not actually intended

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Ohh, so wad is only container for rott but is build in different engine. thank you for those info @Gez

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On 10/1/2018 at 9:03 AM, Gez said:

Yes, we agree then.

 

Which means that whether the file's signature is IWAD or PWAD is entirely irrelevant to whether the file should be considered an IWAD or a PWAD, because it doesn't matter to the Doom engine.

Right. You know it, and I know it. Unfortunately, as with most everything Doom, there are exceptions to the rule. In this case, it's pretty benign, though it does screw up my WAD database a bit: When I search for IWADs, this handful of crappy old WADs appear in the list, with the proper IWADs :(

 

So I guess OP was looking for the following definition: Games that replace enough stuff to be considered stand-alone (even in the case where the commercial IWAD is technically required). Total or partial conversions that replace all resources one might encounter while playing the game. It sucks, but it's important to make that distinction sometimes.

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When i clicked on this topic i thought it was only going to include Doom IWADs but i guess including everything (Heretic, Strife, ect.) makes sense as well. I also thought that it would list all of the versions of each IWAD. I mean, for it to be a truly "complete list" wouldn't that make more sense? It would be more work though since the list also shows game mod's that are standalone...err i mean IWADs ;)  

 

And yes, i know there is a page on the wiki that shows all of the versions of Doom: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Versions_of_Doom_and_Doom_II 

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1 hour ago, CyberDreams said:

I also thought that it would list all of the versions of each IWAD

That would be kinda useless i believe. I mean people will want it to see only games and not all of their versions. I think this should be for new topic because purpose of this one is to show available games for D1 engine and not their history.

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Doom95 was a port of the vanilla engine to Windows 95. It was made available with the Doom IWAD's in the Doom Collector's Edition and a singular Doom II disk. It can't run without an IWAD.

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On 9/30/2018 at 7:14 PM, Coraline said:

Also, speaking of the IWAD list, we need to add "Rise of the Triad: Dark War" - since EDGE validates it and work is ongoing to support the game.

 

Read this thread in full before posting further. :P


 

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