The DWIronman League dies to: End Game & End Point

[Veinen]

I'll be the first one to bite then.

 

I would be the culprit of those posts, and demos, that RjY speaks of and yes, the level of foreknowledge I have for Endpoint was borderline unfair. Although I must say that I'm just a simple speedrunner who highly enjoys maxing Eternal maps and the demos I made were not really meant as ironman preparation per se, but rather this thread reminded me of the wad's existence and sparked me into doing those maxes :)

 

Endpoint was recorded a few days ago, but I played shaky as hell so I thought it was better to save Endgame for later. Well, my game was still shaky today but at least I got through. I've played Endgame before a few times too but somehow I had almost no recollections of map03 and ended up a wee bit lost there + spent several minutes dicking around trying to figure out how to get the RK after missing the platform jump due to infinite height shenanigans.

 

 

DWIronman_Endpoint&Endgame_Veinen.zip

[dobu gabu maru]

7 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

Declaring a lockdown on all highlights directed at DotW, Bloodite and Veinen. Anyone who reminds them that there's an Ironman challenge they've yet to do this month will be forced to perform runs of Eternal Slumber Party for the entirety of 2018. October's mine.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone will notify @Demon of the Well, @Bloodite Krypto, or @Veinen. Nice work this month!

[Alfonzo]

I hope you brought your fucking sleeping pills, dobu!! :((

[RjY]

endpointgame-ironman-5503-3233.zip

 

Endpoint survived in 55:03

 

Spoiler

MAP01  53/86    33   22/24   1/2    2:58+28   2:58
MAP02  45/165   120  9/13    3/5    3:40+24   6:38
MAP03  56/140   84   6/15    1/2    3:44+32   10:22
MAP04  204/215  12   25/35   4/4    12:41+17  23:03
MAP05  214/222  8    44/53   10/11  12:42+06  35:45
MAP06  111/114  4    84/114  3/4    9:51+31   45:36
MAP07  186/188  3    85/132  3/3    9:27+32   55:03

I love pretty much everything Eternal's ever done so I was surprised to have missed this one. Like Gravity it has quite the relaxing atmosphere, but with plutonia-esque traps everywhere its gameplay can be anything but.

 

Preparation: as usual I started by UV-maxing all the maps, which immediately yielded a number of comedy shortcuts along with some considerable frustration in one case. I then spent some time planning strategy, and did two unrecorded practice runs (times ~1h30, and 55min, same as final). I had watched Veinen's 37-minute maxdemo, but at that point I knew all the maps and being a maxdemo it wasn't about shortcuts (although still ridiculously good, 100% kills and still nearly 20 minutes faster than this).

 

Commentary:

 

1. A compact opener that had an obvious 32-unit gap in front of the exit that was really easy to slide through. However I spend some time picking up weapons and other resources. And I get it wrong a little bit, clearing the area in front of the exit with the pistol was not in the plan. The main benefit of the glide is avoiding the nasty trap on the yellow key. Sadly you lose the blue armour, but I felt it a fair exchange.

 

2. Again I quickly noticed a 32-unit gap near the start of the map that takes you all the way to the end. I even wondered if it was intentionally placed. However to exploit it safely, some preparation is required. In particular removing the three hellknights in front of the teleporter before going out to the boat is prudent, so I do that first. It's quite troublesome to slot rockets though the red bars, I missed the first three. Then I bounced around between the two teleporters jitterily and took more damage than I should have, but it worked out in the end.

 

3. The third map in a row to feature a skip-half-the-level 32-unit gap, acquiring the red key early. Once that is done you can pretty much run to the exit (note to speedrunners: get on it) but for safety I clear the area and also pick up the blue armour before dodging the two archviles, falling down the lift before I get incirated, then dodging two revenants and a pain elemental for the exit.

 

4. By this point I was beginning to wonder if the 32 unit gaps were intentional. But I searched this map up and down and found nothing useful. Nothing! So I basically have to go the long way. I try to skip monsters but I am not comfortable so I end up killing almost everything except the two archviles right at the end. At least there's a plasma gun and you can exit with (nearly) 200/200, because...

 

5. ...one of the most satisfying parts of doing Endpoint as a single mission is the start of this map. With only a pistol it is obnoxious, giving you no placed weapons, hardly any health, and dozens of zombies from all angles. And indeed my near 200/200 is reduced to 100/0 even before the yellow key. Sadly once again very few if any shortcuts - in particular the 32-unit gap giving an early glimpse of the exit is marked impassible - although I do try to run past more of the monsters when I know they're unlikely to follow me. Also: beware of that awful fence in the west section that is just high enough to catch rockets on.

 

6. This one has some nice vertical interconnection and a gothic castle feel. The final point of interest - which I was too busy thinking about in advance, on the way back from the yellow key, making me totally forget the archvile on the fountains, and leaving me quite rattled - is the final battle, where the most hideous OpenGLism awaits you, along with a spider/cyber battle with added mancubi. One time after releasing it the spider teleported itself giving an easy and satisfying stomp, but it didn't want to happen this time, and I was already annoyed at the wretched teleporter which had decided to have a strop and not work first time for me, either.

 

7. The start of this map with its four inverted pyramids of bumpy floors and mancubus crossfire feels like something experimental from an early nineties pwad, but the little village surrounding it is idyllic. Somewhere to retire to, obviously after having cleared the hellspawn out first. But that'd be no problem, as I demonstrate here. I went the wrong way at the start and forgot to clear out the area around the partial invisibility before releasing the chaingunners, so that part got a bit hairy (down to , but the rest went fine despite my playing far more riskily than I should have (getting blown up right at the end for instance).

 

Endgame survived in 32:33

 

Spoiler

MAP01  52/54    2    10/17  2/2  4:31+04  4:31
MAP02  14/42    28   4/15   0/1  1:01+32  5:32
MAP03  67/171   104  20/70  1/5  2:58+13  8:30
MAP04  171/202  31   12/42  2/4  4:09+03  12:39
MAP05  19/200   181  8/55   0/9  2:01+24  14:40
MAP06  97/114   17   12/15  1/1  8:01+33  22:41
MAP07  166/183  17   30/35  4/4  6:04+06  28:45
MAP08  174/192  18   4/5    1/1  3:48+05  32:33

 

Another old favourite wad in the same class as Insertion (i.e. played it a lot, but over 10 years ago). Unlike Insertion I thoroughly revised it. I love this wad. It has the widest variety of map types (tech, gothic, hell, etc) and gameplay styles, from nonlinear labyrinths to wide open blast-fests.

 

Preparation: UV-max all the maps to refresh memory, look for shortcuts, all of that stuff. I spent extra time on the last map due to its propensity for easy deaths; I watched a couple of DSDA demos too. I did two practice runs, whose times were about an hour, and 35 minutes.

 

Commentary:

 

1. I know this map can be tricky so I spent a few moments clearing out the imps and the two sniper zombies at the start before taking the secret armour. Annoyingly you can't get back out of the secret other than through the window which is likely to have imps below it. Worse, I wasn't expecting the baron to smack me down to 5% health within two minutes of the start of the map. I had to run over a 10% damage pool with this! With the armour it would have only taken 7%, and I think I hit enough of the health bonuses before touching the surface. But still I was very glad I'd cleared the sergeants so the way to the first medikit was unimpeded, and was still properly nervous facing the second group. Later I wasted a few moments on an awkward and unnecessary strafe50 jump. It would have saved all of five seconds! More importantly it would have avoided another trap, but I got away with it, and it helped to calm my nerves as I was doing something that wasn't going to kill me.

 

2. This is a simple one with a well-publicised sticking point. I skip half the map with a well-placed strafe50 run to the blue key, which fortunately went first time. Not a lot more to say really, there weren't any further upgrades worth going round the rest of the map for.

 

3. This one is nonlinear and sprawling, great to play slowly and fully explore, but also is mostly optional. Not sure if it's an oversight, but the red key can be obtained very quickly without hardly having to do anything. The yellow requires a bit more effort. I went round the safer way, avoiding the archvile, and took a moment to strafe50 to the plasma gun, not that I really needed it.

 

4. This is unexpected, an Erik Alm map with no shortcuts. Some fierce traps though, I died at the one for the yellow key during revision. But then having dashed through to the blue key having picked up 200 armour, and then a soulsphere a bit later, I blast through to the end of the map. This was pretty silly, but I was feeling confident.

 

5. I am faced with a long trek, looping around a classic bricks&metal-themed castle map. Initial estimates suggested it would be 10+ minutes, with several potentially costly encounters - during revision I died to the cyberdemon while fighting other monsters blocking me from the crusher switch. However there is another way. Even if it's one of the most annoying fiddly tricks to pull off. Squeeze through the blue bars. Even if it takes 2 minutes, I felt it was worth a try. I practised this part a lot in -nomonsters, and I learned a lot about the theory and practice of glides. (Note: don't try this in an actual speedrun as you'll die to the hellknight in the corridor beyond unless you are incredibly lucky)

 

6. A heavily gothic map with a controversial history. It also has a Boom deep water / conveyor effect at the start which does nothing in doom2.exe complevel - this turned up an extremely old bug in rboom, which was still applying the effect in the wrong complevel. Not much else to note here. A few places to be careful but mostly straightforward. Some groups of monsters are better to wake up then run away from as they'll start infighting. It's unusual to be able to run in and grab the yellow key, usually one of the mancubi has woken up and is in the way. Finally, I nearly teleported to the end with the cyberdemons still in place, and had to go back to wake them up, then get them infighting from a safe location. Note you can sit by the final teleporter and listen for them nearby, when the stomping is loudest, you know they're well out of the way for the dash to exit. I also finally got a backpack (previous ones would have required either a massive detour on map03, or doing map05 properly) so hooray for that.

 

7. A flooded techbase, and a glorious technical showcase of vanilla trickery that shows many things for which you think you need Boom, you actually don't. It's pretty easy, even from a pistol start - there are a lot of zombies (I lost the soulsphere I had from the end of the last map pretty quickly) but few larger threats. Only shortcut I noticed was my favourite kind, a switch press from below, to open the exit bars. I actually thought the jump through the open door by the green armour was unintentional, but it apparently isn't - the door opens on approach as you go up the stairs. I thought it closed and I'd skipped the linedef. It doesn't save time, it just seemed like the wrong way round the loop, because you then get to raise the water level immediately. This is my second favourite map in the wad...

 

8. ...and my favourite map in the wad is this one. I love this: to say I could run around it all day would be missing a perfect opportunity to use the word "gambol". You dance and frolic in the midst of a giant firefight, in a wide open environment with masterful use of height differences. It just has this one annoyance in that half the teleporters put you in this one central spot that tends to be swamped with monsters, and post-battle cleanup could be improved, as you usually end up faffing around carrying keys to locks and back again with nearly all monsters already dead. Plus the invulnerability seems superfluous by the time you can get at it (can't press the switch from below). Also be careful of the arachnotron telefrag, it's not guaranteed. After all that positivity though I have to say my run here was comparatively a disaster. For best effect the first 10 seconds are important, you get blue armour, jump to ssg, grab soulsphere, teleport, then ledge-run to the BFG secret. The motions are missable in a hurry, especially the final ledge run (with your first shot as you pick up the soulsphere, to wake the imps post-teleport, so they move out of the way) But I missed it twice, before giving up and playing more defensively. I still won fairly comfortably - this is not an obnoxious choreography puzzle where putting a foot wrong is instant end-of-run! - but it wasn't anywhere near as satisfying as it could be. I'd been looking forward to this map for days!

 

Edit: I do apologize, I should have put them in the same zip.

Edit2: Why will it not put the link anywhere other than right at the top of the post? 300 dollars and they can't even make ^V work properly.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by RjY : fixing link and fighting with shit software

[RjY]

On 28/10/2017 at 9:37 PM, Veinen said:

I would be the culprit of those posts, and demos, that RjY speaks of and yes, the level of foreknowledge I have for Endpoint was borderline unfair. Although I must say that I'm just a simple speedrunner who highly enjoys maxing Eternal maps and the demos I made were not really meant as ironman preparation per se, but rather this thread reminded me of the wad's existence and sparked me into doing those maxes :)

In case it came off that way, allow me to be clear that I wasn't frowning on it, or trying to call you out. It would be terribly hypocritical, I'm the last person who can frown on ironman preparation. Also I just watched all those demos now, they were excellent. Was surprised to read you made peace with the start of map05 :).

 

23 hours ago, dobu gabu maru said:

Don't worry, I don't think anyone will notify [...]

You were 50 minutes behind one of your notification targets :).

Another has been offline since 2017-09-02. Seems he is taking a break..?

[Roofi]

I will not participate this month , I lost my demo of "Endgame" which I recorded last week.

[RjY]

1 hour ago, Roofi said:

I will not participate this month , I lost my demo of "Endgame" which I recorded last week.

Sorry to hear it. But couldn't you still do a few maps of Endpoint? You'd at least get a nice shiny silver box on the spreadsheet :). (and more than 0 points, of course)

[Roofi]

46 minutes ago, RjY said:

Sorry to hear it. But couldn't you still do a few maps of Endpoint? You'd at least get a nice shiny silver box on the spreadsheet :). (and more than 0 points, of course)

Yes , I should but I'm too lazy to do it and I also died in Endgame's map 06. :)

I will wait the next wad and will be more careful the next time. !

 

 

[Havoc Crow]

Alfonzo, you seem to have missed my run, it's not on the list...

[NaZa]

@guineu's run too is missing it seems

[DeletedUser]

End Game - Survived in 15:28

End Point - Survived in 36:39

 

DWIronman_EndGame&EndPoint_BlooditeKrypto.zip

The running gag was last month I posted my run on the 2nd, therefore this month I decided to post it on the 30th, from the second to first to the second to last day of the month ;) Although both runs were recorded yesterday as I felt that would be a wiser decision then risk being strained by potential fatigue after a day at work.

I'm thoroughly familiar with any mapset by Erik Alm and Eternal, being two of my definitive mappers which have stood the test of time in crafting excellent gameplay with distinct visual styles.

After playing Erik's Scythe series back when they were released, I seeked out his other works via /idgames so have played the anomalous release or project he may have participated in, similiarly with Eternal I was impressed with his one level releases I played back in the day, with the likes of Cybersky, Generator of Evil and Nightomb, I was easily drawn to any future works.   

Endgame is a short affair, the maps can be navigated quickly if you know the layouts. Endpoint forces you through claustrophobia corridors with enemies in your path and backtracking is required numerous times, so you can't make a daring sprint for the exit. However both sets are moderate in length and I finished each under an hour on a first time playthrough. 

[RjY]

I guess reports of his disappearance were greatly exaggerated

 

26 minutes ago, Bloodite Krypto said:

End Game - Survived in 15:28

What the heck, 15 minutes!?

[NaZa]

What the actual. How?! I needed 15 mim to finish the first 2 1/2 maps. That's just... Even more incredible than Mapgame. Hats off, that's truly unbelievable. 

[42PercentHealth]

RIP, @Alfonzo!

[Ancalagon]

Preparation is getting ridiculous, can we separate blind runners already? or at least invite people to not prepare the runs and post basically a uv-speed, I'd rather visit dsda for those kind of runs.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Ancalagon

[Alfonzo]

1 hour ago, Ancalagon said:

Preparation is getting ridiculous, can we separate blind runners already?

How do you think blind and prepared runs should be determined? The definitions are not quite so simple, I think, and present as a big problem unless we're prepared to allow players to decide for themselves how their runs should be categorized, within reason (we already apply the honor code for recordings). Would simply tagging or color-coding runs as part of the same leader board not have the same effect as forming two separate leader boards, but without compromising the openness and spirit of the "competition?"

 

I have my ideas and was determined to trial them in January, but given that they're less drastic than a few of the calls being made (e.g. outright separation), I may just pull the lever for November.

 

8 hours ago, JudgeDeadd said:

Alfonzo, you seem to have missed my run

I've been very lazy, this month! Everything will be up in the end, no sweat.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Alfonzo

[RjY]

2 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

Preparation is getting ridiculous, can we separate blind runners already? or at least invite people to not prepare the runs and post basically a uv-speed, I'd rather visit dsda for those kind of runs.

This is difficult. The enjoyment I get from this contest is forming a plan and executing it: the sense of confidence during the final run, as everything plays out exactly as expected, is the reward. Thus if blindness becomes a rule I probably won't want to participate unless it's a wad I happen to have done recently by chance.* However it seems from your post you are losing interest and will stop participating if blindness isn't enforced. And I'm sure we're not the only two on opposite sides of the fence. So it's difficult because it threatens to tear the contest apart; whatever happens, half the players will quit.**

 

I take your point about the top of the table basically turning into a UV Speed contest though. I enjoy the optimize-for-safety angle over the optimize-for-time nature of traditional speedrunning. The past couple of months I guess I've done too many unrecorded practice runs of the whole wad, and it shows, as I've felt able to take more risks and play more quickly, finishing with times that are far too flattering for my actual skill as a player. I think I should just play the individual maps to learn them, then do the real run.***

 

________

* As point of fact that's how I got started, I'd just replayed btsx_e1 for its re-release when March rolled around.

** That's not even mentioning the problems with trying to make blindness a rule. What will stop people just lying about it? Who is going to be bold enough to call out their peers, risking drama and ostracism, and how are they going to prove the accusation?

*** Although I reserve the right to overprepare if something like Disturbia comes up again :).

 

[Beginner]

My pretty sloppy entry.

Endpoint: completed in 1:33:14.

Endgame: dead at map05.

Endpoint went pretty well due to doing FDA's in '16 and applying "survival above everything" tactics. Endgame on the other hand... out of paranoid fear of getting blindsided by Cyberdemon I did some horrible mistakes and paid for it.

[NaZa]

On 10/1/2017 at 4:33 AM, Alfonzo said:

# Survived [1:27:36] RjY - Even the prepared can get spooked, as the opening to Mapgame demonstrates. Still, no deaths for RjY. 

So that's why he's so quick! It was Mapgame all along, and we were playing Endgame by mistake. Oh, the spooky Halloween.

[rehelekretep]

i think the spoilered rules in each topic post strongly suggest that these Ironman attempts should be blind, but ultimately its all for fun anyway so if people want to prepare a little then so be it.

[BigDickBzzrak]

Died on 03 in one mapset and on 02 in the other one. Whatever. Endgame seems ok, endpoint is not quite my style. :]

dwiron-end-bzzrak.zip

 

edit: haha incredible timing

Edited October 31, 2017 by bzzrak

[RjY]

Who are we still waiting for now? @Demon of the Well ? @Scotty ? @bzzrak ? Edit: no, not the latter, I was three minutes late posting.

 

1 hour ago, NaZa said:

So that's why he's so quick! It was Mapgame all along, and we were playing Endgame by mistake. Oh, the spooky Halloween.

Looking to the future, I've been searching for wads named GamePoint, EndMap, etc.

 

On 01/10/2017 at 3:33 AM, Alfonzo said:

Still, no deaths for RjY.

You flatter me -- I unarguably died on VV1, remember? :)

 

1 hour ago, rehelekretep said:

i think the spoilered rules in each topic post strongly suggest that these Ironman attempts should be blind

You didn't say but I guess you mean You cannot load a game having progressed past the save point. This includes "scouting ahead" for map details "just to check on something." Clearly any preparation could be described as "scouting ahead" and it could even be argued there is a save point, the implied one at the start of the wad, to which you return if you die having never saved explicitly. However I believe the rebuttal is if it were a hard rule Alfonzo himself wouldn't be able to participate (or he'd have to get someone else to screen the wad picks and check their suitabililty), q.v. "on most months my runs are the most compromised of anyone here! [...] I have to investigate the levels to some extent ahead of time to make sure they're good for it"

 

[Archi]

Add date/time of submissions into your list of survivors next time, it would be pretty informative. :)

[Scotty]

My shit 11th hour attempts cause i forgot about this! https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ayuwpupwcm4o9q/ScottyIronmanOct.zip?dl=1

 

Endgame: Ate a cyb rocket on map08. Stupid, cause that is not a difficult map as long as you keep moving really. This was quite a decent run until that point as well, for once an Ironman wad is something i've actually played pretty recently and could remember a fair bit of. This set was more fun second time as i knew where the bullshit progression in some maps was.

 

Endpoint: got chipped down and eventually put out of my misery on map04, i didn't really enjoy these cramped maps.

[Demon of the Well]

And here's me, bringing up the rear as usual: Endthing.

 

Survived both, final time is 1 hour 40 something. A lot of wasted time accrued over the course of End Point in particular, I think; I've only played it once before (when it first hit /idgames), and I had no real sense of what could be skipped and what could not as far as the steady stream of combat goes, since Eternal often builds things in a way where this is not particularly obvious to a surface appraisal. End Game I've played more than once before, natch, though it has been a long time. This was a somewhat disorienting run; some of the content I remembered very well, some of it not at all, and I was having one of those experiences where maps I was expecting to see in the set weren't there, and maps I had for some reason thought were in other sets appeared in this one. Getting lost in map 05 and missing the blue key until the end in map 06 are the biggest time hits here; map 08 is also very badly played, but by the time I was there I figured I had slid by my lonesome into a large gap on the board and didn't really need to risk survival for a bit of extra speed anymore. C'est la vie.

[Steve D]

Endgame: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ayql3y7ecmy81a6/SteveEnd.lmp

Endpoint: http://www.mediafire.com/file/law3as3gt1ou69w/StevePoint.lmp

 

My apologies for the 2 files, but 7-zip refused to launch and I was down to the wire on time. Died deep into Map07 of Endgame and Map01 of Endpoint.

 

It's 11:50PM Central of 10-31-2017 in the Great Midwest as I upload this. :)

[Steve D]

Okay, so now that I finished my panic upload, my thoughts on these maps.

 

I really enjoyed Endgame. I did a practice run early in the month and died on Map03, not to mention getting hopelessly lost in that nonlinear spaghetti bowl. But I was playing with saves and continued, not dying again until Map05, then 06 and finally 08. Didn't get that far on this run. 

 

I knew that if I survived Map03 I'd at least reach Map05, since Map04 is dead easy.

 

Really odd layouts in some of these, especially Map05. That pop-up Baron over the blood lake is a pain. I nearly died several times on this one, and forgive the boring backtracking as I try to find some health to grab the sunken Soulsphere. I was down to 12% and wasn't going to survive the blood to hit that switch. ;D

 

I'm shocked that I survived Map06. It's all about running at max speed screaming in terror to get past those Cybs at the end.

 

Map07 is probably my favorite. Gotta love that awesome lighting, but since I started playing at 9:30PM, and I'm slow, it was already past 11:00 when I reached this one, so I played recklessly in hopes that I'd just fucking die so I could get at least a start on Endpoint. It was super fun while it lasted, a real blast-fest by my Ancient Arthritic Keyboarder standards. I sorta didn't try too hard to dodge that last Revvie what killed me because it was like 11:30, so I basically semi-suicided so I could go ahead and die on Map01 of Endpoint. I ain't no leaderboard contender after all. ;)

 

I liked what little I saw of Endpoint, so I'll have to get back to that using my normal savescummer style.

 

No mouse for a Fire key this this time, so it's keyboarding all the way. Enjoy the rusty play as I jerk around from time to time. Only the 3rd time I've touched Doom this month, so it ain't pretty. ;)