The DWmegawad Club plays: Plutonia Revisited Community Project

[Memfis]

I think these Rick Lipsey maps are pretty much the only interesting part of Invasion 2. :D

[PsychoGoatee]

2 hours ago, T-Rex said:

Whoa, it's been a while since I've posted anything. Well, this is a conundrum, because I wanted to vote for Invasion 2, an incomplete yet playable 32-level megawad by Paul Fleschute, with three maps by Rick Lipsey: two are based on his two maps that are yet to be found (Tangent to Reality and Orbital Platform Talon), while the third is a retextured and slightly modified Polygon Base. However, I'm tempted to vote for three short wads, like how we did with the TiC trilogy. Ah, what the hell, I'll go ahead and vote the latter.

 

+++ The Trooper's Playground, and The Darkening 1 & 2

Darkening is 22 maps, Darkening 2 is 24 maps, plus Trooper's Playground, that's a lot of maps. That's why I voted for Darkening 2 and Kuchitsu, since those two combined are 30 maps. Also, though this kind of back and forthing might not be standard voting procedure, since we're both interested in one of the same things, maybe we could figure out an agreed upon assortment to vote for? But there is only room for one of the Darkening's in one month, and seems 2 is the preferred one overall. But I'd be cool with playing the first one also.

 

And Memfis is right here in this topic, how about that.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP28: Dance with the Devil

 

What we've got here is a pretty classic hubspoke layout with a brick theme contrasted by occasional natural or infernal flourishes.  More than anything what it seems to possess is a sense of the impersonal; like MAP23 of Plutonia the space doesn't express much in the way of setting or identity, instead functioning as a relatively anonymous backdrop to the combat gameplay found within.  The cyberdemon turrets perched atop each key likewise feel more like part of the architecture than ordinary monsters; they almost seem like they want to be telefragged in sequence, restrained as they are, but instead the player's options for dealing with them seem to be conventional ones, whether that's the BFG, the plasma hose, or repeated pop-and-shoot with the super shotgun.  I found this to be a map where the opposition felt less ferocious than the monster count would suggest.

[T-Rex]

59 minutes ago, PsychoGoatee said:

Darkening is 22 maps, Darkening 2 is 24 maps, plus Trooper's Playground, that's a lot of maps. That's why I voted for Darkening 2 and Kuchitsu, since those two combined are 30 maps. Also, though this kind of back and forthing might not be standard voting procedure, since we're both interested in one of the same things, maybe we could figure out an agreed upon assortment to vote for? But there is only room for one of the Darkening's in one month, and seems 2 is the preferred one overall. But I'd be cool with playing the first one also.

 

And Memfis is right here in this topic, how about that.

Although The Darkening has 22 maps while Darkening 2 has 24, half of them each are deathmatch only. The Darkening 1 has a separate wad containing 11 DM-only maps while the 12 DM-only ones in the Darkening 2 are bundled together right after the first 12 maps that are for single player.  So we'd be actually playing 23 maps in total since the main focus is playing single-player wads. Couple that with TTP, and we'd be playing 32 maps altogether, which yes, it does exceed over 30. Invasion 2, I kinda enjoy it. May not be pretty, but I like the somewhat basic attempt at realism, and it's a mostly easy megawad, though I do agree with Memfis here that Rick Lipsey's maps are the most interesting in that wad. Either way, it'd be a welcome change from all those Nintendo Hard wads the DWMC have been tackling like Crumpets, Stardate20x7, Rush, and this month's megawad, PRCP.

[PsychoGoatee]

40 minutes ago, T-Rex said:

Although The Darkening has 22 maps while Darkening 2 has 24, half of them each are deathmatch only. The Darkening 1 has a separate wad containing 11 DM-only maps while the 12 DM-only ones in the Darkening 2 are bundled together right after the first 12 maps that are for single player.  So we'd be actually playing 23 maps in total since the main focus is playing single-player wads. Couple that with TTP, and we'd be playing 32 maps altogether, which yes, it does exceed over 30. Invasion 2, I kinda enjoy it. May not be pretty, but I like the somewhat basic attempt at realism, and it's a mostly easy megawad, though I do agree with Memfis here that Rick Lipsey's maps are the most interesting in that wad. Either way, it'd be a welcome change from all those Nintendo Hard wads the DWMC have been tackling like Crumpets, Stardate20x7, Rush, and this month's megawad, PRCP.

Ah right on, good call. With that in mind I'll change my vote seconding your vote.

 

+++ The Trooper's Playground, and The Darkening 1 & 2

 

(edit:)

 

Was just flipping through Matthias Worch playing some Trooper's Playground, looks like it involves some DEH patches that may run glitchily for replacing Nazi guy etc. And personally some of the progression looks arcane. So I may end up skipping much of that, but I'll tune in to the topic for Darkening 1 & 2, assuming it gets picked.

 

Or if anybody else wants to vote for those Darkenings with Kuchitsu for example, if it's possible to flip-flop this much, I'd then change my vote back to that. Or maybe all these Darkening 1 & 2 plus "X" votes can be counted, but with the "X" part for the third thing being counted as a seperate part of this. So I could vote for Darkening 1 & 2 and Kuchitsu, but both our votes could count for Darkening 1 & 2 etc.

Edited October 28, 2017 by PsychoGoatee

[Forli]

MAP21 - Asmodeus Circle

 

Not a very good map, the design is simplistic and the fights repetitive (and was it necessary to have THAT many specters?), also there are many decorations and support pillars sticking from the walls making movement awkward in some indoor places.

The only part I liked was the first time clearing the main area, after that it was a bit of a grind. I'm glad I found the bfg early, that made it a bit less annoying.

 

MAP22 - Suicide Mission

 

Very similar to impossible mission, which is good, because I like that map.

The only part I disliked was not knowing where to go at first with the radsuit, but it was nowhere near as bad as in map 19, other than that the map was pretty ok.

 

MAP23 - Necrogenesis 

 

I was not expecting to beat any of the maps on the third part whithout dying once but I did this one (actually none of these maps so far have been nearly as though as I was expecting).

A layout focused on teleporters and backtracking seems like a recipe for getting lost, but the teleports are marked and the layout is simple enough so it works.

I liked the gloomy visual theme, somehow fits the name of the map with some plants growing on the dead looking walls. The fights where constant and varied enough but nothing really stuck to mind. Pretty good map overall.

Also, I was not expecting a secret fight like that, that was cool.

 

MAP24 - Terra Incognita

 

I'm not the biggest fan of maps 24 and 27 from plutonia, this one is not very annoying with the chaingunners at least.

This is yet another map that takes a lot from its inspirations so I don't have much to say. The blue key fight was the most memorable part, but for all its cool setup it boiled down to nothing but shooting things from behind cover after escaping the cage. I also died a lot on the later parts, I don't know why, it didn't seem that hard.

[NuMetalManiak]

On 10/27/2017 at 1:16 AM, dobu gabu maru said:

Hey popping in to let you guys know that if nothing gets over 3 votes there won't be a thread next month. This isn't meant to be a threat—I just don't want a month with lackluster participation. Likewise, if you know you're going to be busy or aren't in the Dooming spirit, don't feel pressured to vote.

Deep down inside, I was actually in favor of this, mostly because I know I'll be busy anyways.

[Memfis]

+++ The Darkening 1 & 2 + Kuchitsu, why not

[Snikle]

Yeah, 

+++ the Darkening 1 & 2

I don't care how you fill the other mapslots.

[PsychoGoatee]

Awesome, so my vote is also +++ The Darkening 1 & 2 + Kuchitsu. Sorry the messiness of my voting in three posts.

[baja blast rd.]

Changing my vote from JOW to 

 

+++ 3 Heures d'Agonie 3

 

 

[Jaws In Space]

+++ The Darkening 1 & 2 + Kuchitsu

[Endless]

This was a lot of fun, such a petty I couldnt finisht it. But anyway, heres my vote!

 

+++ 10 Sectors 

[gaspe]

MAP28: Combats had its funny moments and despite the high monster count the map wasn't grinding nor it felt too long. The gimmick of the cybers leaves me cold. Visually was very boring and there was too much symmetry, lame thing to have with such very basic rooms.

[Magnusblitz]

Gonna jump ahead to try and finish out on schedule and maybe come back for MAP24-27 later.

 

MAP28: Dance with the Devil
100% kills, 3/4 secrets

 

Had a lot of fun with this one, I think the monster placement is pretty on point, though arguably this does have the side effect of the architecture feeling a bit anonymous as TheOrganGrinder notes - it really feels like the architecture feels like it was designed around the encounters rather than the architecture existing first and having monsters in it. I actually was okay with the architecture, it's certainly a bit blocky and has lots of 90/45 degree angles in it, but there's also a few simple touches I liked such as the sacrificial altars or these skylights. I just wish I had found the RL quicker, I went to the (longer) blue key wing first and didn't find it until the end since it was hidden behind a green armor pickup I didn't need.

 

[galileo31dos01]

MAP28: Dance With the Devil

UV, pistol start, saves

Deaths: 2

 

 

Oh, we're getting closer to the end, and that personally means closer to my least favourite map of all! Hahaaa...

 

This is a great map by Tropiano. I had clear memories of this map being one of the least bitchies but at the same time quite interesting. Visually, well as for detailing it's simple worked but neat, the architecture is smooth, nothing interrupts you to wander freely. More non-damaging blood is always a plus. I liked the midi used.

 

The gameplay is about another triple key hunt, in a non-linear way. Each key is protected by a cyberdemon, the first one is meant to be left alive due to lack of resources to kill him. There are a lot of chaingunners and shotgunners behind the start, I was killed twice by my dumb decisions to battle them. This is probably the trickiest part of the map, as at some point you are trapped with snipers from all sides. I like that barons played the role of friendly foes. After the start, it gets considerably easier, the best path to take first is for the BK, but if you want some dancing you can take the YK path first. Either way you get your weapons and plenty of resources. It's all about reaching to the keys, several enemies will pop up but nothing too serious. The BFG is there free for anyone, though there's no encounter that particularly demands its use. 

 

Secrets, one is at the BK side, there's a berserk+blue armor+items. The other three are at the YK side, more goodies. 

 

Ammo, since you get a plasma rifle really early, there's no obligation to get the other rifles as you get enough cells on your way. So no problems with any kind of ammunition.

 

Overall, there's not a lot to talk about this map, but I liked it anyway, definitely one of my favourites. Pleasant experience.

[Spie812]

MAP27 'Planned Overload'

I did not enjoy this level. near-mandatory secrets (bfg), luck-based traps (chaingunner line), bad key placement (yellow key is hard to grab, red key ended up buried under a pile of corpses), etc, etc. The start is pretty intense however, so it gets some points for that.

MAP28 'Dance with the Devil'

This is a bit more like it. Although a lot of encounters are basically 'Infighting Simulator: Plutonia Edition', most of the fights are actually somewhat fun. The level centers around a hub where you can go grab keys in pretty much any order you want. Each key poses a different challenge with the common theme that there is a cyberdemon guarding the key that you have to kill (but not too soon or you don't get free kills!) Every section is different, and every section is interesting. 

I will say that the main feature of the yellow key section is a bit awkward. The walkway is too close to the wall so you end up taking splash damage no matter what you do. Enemies tend to pile up at the bottom of the short staircases, making them hard to hit and very hard to pass. It's definitely the weakest part of an otherwise really solid map.

 

Overall, hell yeah this was great.

[Grain of Salt]

+++

 

The even numbered installments of the Darkening and 3ha, or the odd numbered installments of the Darkening and 3ha and Kuchitsu. I also vote for 10sectors, but only if the sum of numbers in the titles of the wads played is less than 10.

[PsychoGoatee]

I've been roasted! I'm like a cooked goose!

 

[Grain of Salt]

I wasn't roasting anyone in particular actually :-)

[Spie812]

+++ 3 Heures d'Agonie 3

sure why not

[WH-Wilou84]

On 26/10/2017 at 7:55 AM, Spectre01 said:

MAP23 - “Necrogenesis” by William Huber

Wasn't this trap already meme'd in the Not-Realm map?

Yep, heh.

We mappers didn't playtest each other's stuff until the beta release, so it's only natural that some of the most iconic and memorable Plutonia traps got mimicked in multiple maps.
 

I'm gonna cast a vote on

+++ 3 Heures d'Agonie 3

... even though I think 3ha2 is slightly superior.
It shall be fun to see how you guys fare in this one, and since the maps are short, 3ha3 would nicely accommodate to a month with low activity.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP29: Atlatl

 

This one presents the player with a large and intricate temple or castle map set above a winding series of bloody canals; it's an exercise driven by exploration, with the difficulty provided by a steady flow of mixed opposition and (I felt) the relatively late delivery of the super shotgun and limited rocket ammunition in comparison to the ready glee with which the level throws bullet sponges into the player's face.  This is probably something that could boost its replay value, with a player putting foreknowledge to work to acquire the map's heavier weapons while avoiding the tougher nuggets of meat clogging up the flow from place to place, returned to grind them away once better-armed.  I feel also that there are a couple of hiccups that can occur in the player's navigation of the temple, whether through failure to realise that the colour-coded switches do not require their corresponding keys, but instead open the way to them, or (and this left we wandering back and forth scratching my head for a while) not realising that a strafe run across the bloody chasm in the cavern node in the north-east corner is required for progression.  The environment's a delightful one to navigate, with some shortcuts opening up as the player makes progress to reduce the necessary backtracking and create smoother, quicker loops through the temple, and in shape, scale, texture, and theme, it's nicely varied (that Romero rule about providing landmarks is definitely in effect here) without feeling at all inconsistent or muddled, and that's a stark contrast to the generally homogeneous texturing of the preceding map.  Probably one of my favourite levels in the WAD.

[PsychoGoatee]

So in the spirit of trying different things, I just gave this a try. Even though I know that this style of combat design is not my thing. Usually if something's just not my thing, I wouldn't want to review it and say I don't like it, since well, we all know what we like in Doom wads. And I prefer to post about stuff I like.

 

Map 01: Stonewall

 

Excellent aesthetic design and also fun to navigate, Joshy is excellent. The choices made for the combat, it's for it's audience, but not for me really. So many chaingunners and shotgun guys right around where you spawn on HMP, and you run can run into an Archvile less than a minute in. And these are positioned in a Plutonia-ish way, as intended. Though it's much much tougher than the original Plutonia, at least for me. Since playing a Plutonia inspired wad likely means you're playing on UV, I wonder if HMP was tuned much or is that different. For me this style of combat feels tedious and not fun, and just preference but I'd like a super shotgun if I'm fighting a mancubus. He didn't hit me, but doing the shimmy and shooting him a lot with the shotgun is just not interesting to me. And more so for fighting the Achvile with a single shotgun, lot of hiding behind boxes. And Revenant and Arachnatrons etc (though there are some rockets later), no rule that these enemies shouldn't be in a first level. But why is Doomguy knee deep in high end enemies with such little firepower and ammo. Well, for people who dig that of course, that's cool. I like some challenge in games but in a different way, I guess like say Doom 2016 on UV, or various more laidback Doom wads, or Quake and Duke 3D, and MGS, From Software etc. This I don't enjoy, not enough ammo or firepower to me, and enemy placement doesn't feel fun for me. The style of survival combat is such that I don't feel like I'm really exploring and feeling atmosphere, I dunno. I could keep writing about how I don't enjoy this style of combat design, but people who do dig it dig it, and that's why this is popular. There are games where I will keep playing and improving against something challenging, Ninja Gaiden (xbox) etc. And I dig that this style of evolving Doom's gameplay scratches that itch for a lot of players, but for whatever reason it just doesn't interest me or feel fun to me. And that's cool. But, I gave it a try.

 

(and I gather from earlier posts there is a super shotgun in that level somewhere)

 

[edit: this post would probably fit better in the Doom confessional topic. :P I did just figure out that Prescaled mouse movement is acceleration and turned that off after years, and did other mouse settings stuff just now. Progress!]

Edited October 29, 2017 by PsychoGoatee

[galileo31dos01]

6 hours ago, PsychoGoatee said:

Since playing a Plutonia inspired wad likely means you're playing on UV, I wonder if HMP was tuned much or is that different.

As for monster placement, it's not so different, aside from a few odd changes that alter gameplay but not threat level. 

 

-------------------------

 

MAP29: Atlatl

UV, pistol start, saves

Deaths: 2 (or 3) and a reload

 

 

Well, not as long as I remembered. Ok, Mechadon's map is a fair non-linear exploratory big level. There're a lot of visuals going on there, vined textures, wooden strutcutres, a big cavern, blood pools, etc. I think this is one of the bests in the mapset, in terms of layout. The midi is that quiet spooky track from Doom, good because sometimes I wandered through parts with everything dead, so that created a sense of suspense, even though I kind of knew what was left in the map.

 

Gameplay is perfectly non-linear, you have to get the 3 skulls. Switches can be a bit confusing, one would think "oh ok I need the blue key first" but in reality you press those switches first and get the keys later. Combat is tough at times, but that depends on the track you choose and how well powered you are. Lots of cacodemons and revenants early, in addition to turrets and a sneaky archvile from afar. The shotgun and chaingun are your best friends for the first 7 minutes, or less depending on your foreknowledge. Health is abundant, but armor is limited to three green ones, and the first one is obscurely hidden (I found it by pure chance). There're a lot of parts to explore and find more goodies, the cave is great, you get the SSG, chainsaw, and tons of shells. Getting the rocket launcher requires being well powered to resist a lot of bullets and projectiles. I have to admit, I died twice there (I was armorless) and it didn't feel like it was all my fault, trees can stuck the player while running, and so I did a lot of times. Nevertheless, is obligatory because you need the BK. The RK is a dangerous trap that went absolutely well for me, something unusual cause I suck at fighting more than one archvile at the same time. To acquire the YK is more complex, the trap consists of a series of switches in order to free the yellow switch. Opposition is mostly low-tiers but space is limited, so it's tricky, but if you released the secret BFG beforehand it'll come in handy for the third wave. The final area has a nice climatic battle against many enemies, you better saved that secret soulsphere for that part, just in case archviles get tasty. 

 

Secrets, as a big map, there are many secrets to find, I like that a lot. One is in a little cave in the blood river in the big cave, there's ammo and anti-darkness glasses, and you'll see the cave is mostly green, wow I wasn't expecting that... You'll have to press a switch first to open that little cave. There's a secret switch that opens the cabin where the secret BFG is. Another one is a computer map, it's not easy to find and you'll need the automap to recognize that secret. There's a soulsphere useful for the finale. And a berserk, in the cave part.

 

Ammo, well it's all shells and bullets mostly, rockets are limited but you can use them wisely. The BFG is useful too, it'll make the finale a piece of cake. 

 

Overall, even though I didn't enjoy my two deaths (and a rage reload), I liked this map a lot. Tomorrow is IoS time! ugh, please no...

[Spie812]

Map29: 'Atlatyl'

UV Pistol Start - Saves

^{Where are the enemies??}

What a boring level. For being the penultimate level in the mapset, it sure as hell doesn't play like it. That's my main problem with the map. It is way, way too easy. The screenshot isn't satire or anything. I didn't kill all of the monsters in the area, there isn't a horde of monsters hidden offscreen, there isn't a huge ambush about to be triggered, that is an actual part of the level. You're given the shotgun early on, but be prepared to use it a lot. I spent over two-thirds of the level plinking away at mid-tier enemies with the shotgun. Somehow they couldn't even make that even remotely challenging. You're finally given the super-shotgun on your way to the yellow key which the progression of the map naturally led me to last. I rarely felt even remotely threatened by anything.

 

That being said, some areas of the level are unfair (which is weird to say since I just called this easy.) Take the red key room, for example. It's really close to the start, so you're naturally moved toward it. Then, you're locked in a room with two arch viles with nothing but a shotgun and the very scarce ammo at the beginning. What the fuck?

 

Overall, this level is bad.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Spie812

[Magnusblitz]

MAP29: Atlatl

100% kills, 3/6 secrets

 

A fairly large adventure-style map, fitting for the MAP29 slot. The first bit was a bit of a slog as I only had the single shotgun, which meant lots of sitting back and playing it safe instead of being able to just charge in and run around. Once the SSG and RL were acquired it was pretty easy going, with the fight for the yellow key release switch particularly standing out. While I enjoyed it on the whole, I do think it could've benefited from some better ammo/monster balance, by adding more rocket ammo especially. It also probably could've used some better lighting work - most of the level is pretty close to fullbright, and then a rather dark cavern providing the only real contrast.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP30: In the Eye of the Beholder

 

The Icon of Sin to end all Icons of Sin, maybe?  The map title is a clue as to just how the final encounter is meant to be resolved, and the new art, depicting some kind of Baphomet/cacodemon hybrid, is pretty striking, if perhaps more cartoonish in its style than the rest of the WAD sets the player up for.  The broken house and cacodemon circle provide some fun interstitial encounters (and preparatory supplies) before the final showdown.

[galileo31dos01]

MAP30: In The Eye of the Beholder 

UV, pistol start, saves

Deaths: my tolerance

 

 

Ok... visuals, yeah all spooky, all black, nice colour for the slime. Midi, well I just forgot it. Now for the gameplay thouhgts:

 

I, once again, iddqd/idclip, cause I just couldn't stand it anymore, and I tried a lot of times to do the right thing, seriously, but my patience simply went into the toilet. Reasons:

 

- Shortage of cells, in an IoS map you have to have more than 600 cells available for all the crap that gets on your way.

- I felt obligated to two-shot the cyberdemons on the ground, due to what I said before, but trying to kill one this way, with another one on the other side, and other two on tops, is practically suicide for an average player like me. Getting one busy requires waiting for stronger mid-tiers to spawn in, and what happens if pain elementals and/or archviles appear?... 

- Timed lift, do I need to explain?

- The spiderdemon is in a position and distance where, at least, 3 or 4 shots are needed (maybe two?)... again, due to shortage of cells I wasted everything on her and then I didn't have nothing for the shit that was on the lift.

 

Aside from these reasons, if I take out the IoS part, there're other things I don't like about the map. For instance, the only secret is absolutely useless. Who the hell uses a chainsaw or a berserk in an Icon of Sin map?!?!?!. Then, the circle of cacos is somewhat ok, it's still cleanup with a timer though, I don't like that the grey slime is damaging because you have to spend some time on it while you surround the cacos. I'm thinking, you have to be fully prepared for the IoS part, and you only get a soulsphere, so if you lost a lot of armor on the caco-ring, you'll have to take a blue one which can be totally necessary later.

 

I don't feel good by finnishing this great mapset like this, cause again it's one more IoS map I didn't win legally. You may say "why don't you choose a lower skill?", any map has to be fun in any skill, excluding Nightmare, and I don't think it's fun to repeat a map so many times, just because you never get to the lift in time, or you run out of cells and stuff on the lift (barons!!!!) blocks you. Perhaps, if the map had more cells, I would have probably bothered to finnish it the correct way.

 

Overall, sorry for my negativity, I know this is doable, it's just not fun in any way for me. Maybe, someday, I'll give it another try. Third time's the charm, right?. I'll post my final thoughts later. 

[gaspe]

MAP29: Atlatl, it really sounds like something aztec and fits for this rather massive map that resembles like a ruined cityscape that features some cool architecture. For the gameplay I kinda agree with what the others have said. I spent most of the time killing stuff with the SG and the RL, the red key trap was a nice and tricky situation actually, and while progressing I was hoping to find other weapons, or at least more rockets but even the secrets weren't very helpful (aside the BFG). I wasn't sure where to go since everywhere I kept to find only more monsters and right before opening the door to the yellow key room I opted to go back and try with the western cave instead where I finally found the SSG when more than half of the map population was already dead. Overall it's decent, the key traps and the ending are the best moments while the cave was very underwhelming and even the exploration felt like it was missing something to be truly engaging.