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Eric the Sandvich

Shesez does a Boundary Break mini-episode for Doom 1

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There's a particular moment in the beginning that intrigued me to post this here in order to see your reactions, chocolate minted cookies for the first person to guess such.

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The video title made me think of the void glide. Would've been too clever...

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2 minutes ago, Linguica said:
  • "I assumed there was no modding community for Doom" 🤔
  • "Does DOOM have its own Noclip? Well yes and no" what the hell
  • ZDoom is "the definitive version of Doom"
  • The stunning revelation that if you are behind an enemy and you haven't fired a shot near them, they are still asleep!
  • The stunning revelation that you can "fiddle around with the options" to increase the screen size and hide the HUD
  • Doesn't increase the draw distance in the GZDB visual mode
  • Doesn't even mention the one thing in Doom that actually qualifies as a "boundary break" sort of thing: sound pipes to monster teleporter rooms, a la E1M9

Triple stacked cookies for you.

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5 minutes ago, dmg_64 said:

He's clearly not into Classic Doom and doesn't have a clear idea of the community or how the game works.

Sure, but for a game that is 24 years old AND is a very important one, you have to know that pretty much everyone has basic knowledge of doom, i haven't heard of anyone that didn't play doom not know where romero's head is.

 

I don't want to bash Shesez for not knowing all the advanced stuff, but most of this video just rehashes everything that everyone knows.

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1 hour ago, Linguica said:
  • ZDoom is "the definitive version of Doom"

To be fair, this is pretty hard to debate in terms of ... I dunno if "casual players" have the right connotations, but with uncapped framerate, freelook, generally more intuitive collisions, and tons of mods to mix up gameplay, it's really hard to say compatibility with demos and a handful of old levels reliant on very specific quirks of the engine can really compete with most people

 

50 minutes ago, Eric the Sandvich said:

Sure, but for a game that is 24 years old AND is a very important one, you have to know that pretty much everyone has basic knowledge of doom

The pervasiveness of "Doom isn't 3D" pretty much soundly shows you're overestimating how much a 24 year old game matters to the majority of the population.

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1 minute ago, Arctangent said:

The pervasiveness of "Doom isn't 3D" pretty much soundly shows you're overestimating how much a 24 year old game matters to the majority of the population.

Maybe.

 

I know I can't nit-pick someones presentation on a subject that is to be simplified so that every gamer can understand, but I don't watch a boundary break episode about a game that I don't care about (Which means alot of doom fans watch THIS video), and the "Boundary Break" of this episode barely qualifies as a boundary break.

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I'm glad vids like this bring attention to Doom but the misinformation does irk me. I've come to not expect anything else though, there's enough misinformation about Doom in popular Youtube videos that I could potentially devote months to a series of videos solely based on debunking stupid claims about Doom.. But I can't be bothered

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"Funnily enough when you zoom this one out you can see a clearly defined shape of a star."

 

*Opens up the automap to see that it is shaped like a star.

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I was discussing these videos with an acquaintance some time ago and we came to the conclusion that Shesez seems to think that games are some sort of weird magic box. There's this weird trend he has in that the same trick used over again in each game he looks at will oddly amaze him every time he sees it, like the skyboxes used in Source engine games; they just don't equate to him at all, no matter how many times he sees it. This results him coming up with some weird assumptions as well.

 

It certainly wouldn't be hard for him to ask questions to developers, or maybe he just doesn't comprehend game engines? I'm not really sure what to make of it. Hell all he'd need to do is toss an email to a studio and ask "Hey I'm Shesez and I make a Youtube series called boundary break, why do you guys do X this way?".

Heck, not enough people do that, I say. I sure don't see any emails like that.

 

3 hours ago, Arctangent said:

To be fair, this is pretty hard to debate in terms of ... I dunno if "casual players" have the right connotations, but with uncapped framerate, freelook, generally more intuitive collisions, and tons of mods to mix up gameplay, it's really hard to say compatibility with demos and a handful of old levels reliant on very specific quirks of the engine can really compete with most people

Yes, but did he say it's definitive because of these things, or because he just took one look at the source port and thought that's the only one existed, doing zero research into the matter? Also it's disingenuous to assume that all casual users don't look for accurate gameplay and physics, so as to throw around the word definitive without a single caveat is short sited and misinforming at the very least.

Edited by Edward850

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29 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Yes, but did he say it's definitive because of these things, or because he just took one look at the source port and thought that's the only one existed, doing zero research into the matter?

He literally shows a list of source ports in the video, there's reason to believe that he at least looked at the basic capabilities of each and decided "yeah this seems like the most applicable to someone like me."

 

29 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Also it's disingenuous to assume that all casual users don't look for accurate gameplay and physics, so as to throw around the word definitive without a single caveat is short sited and misinforming at the very least.

It's kinda hard to imagine what kind of casual player would really care so much about those things, given that sticklers for accuracy are almost always those in a more hardcore circle ( i.e. speedrunners, people with heavy nostalgia, super retro gamers, etc. ).

 

I realize that sticking around here can cloud one's perception of a typical video game player, but most people would look into Doom for the sake of its general sprite-based art style, oldschool FPS gameplay, or historical value without going so deep into it that they're getting frustrated at bumping into cacodemons twenty feet above them or squinting their eyes at a 320x200 resolution stretched across their widescreen monitor with 256 colors.

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12 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

He literally shows a list of source ports in the video, there's reason to believe that he at least looked at the basic capabilities of each and decided "yeah this seems like the most applicable to someone like me."

Considering the rest of the video, that's kind of hard to believe.

12 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

It's kinda hard to imagine what kind of casual player would really care so much about those things, given that sticklers for accuracy are almost always those in a more hardcore circle ( i.e. speedrunners, people with heavy nostalgia, super retro gamers, etc. ).

It's pretty easy to imagine, actually, I have direct experience with it. It's usually the number one one everyone's mind when asking about stuff NightDive is doing. What you're saying just isn't accurate (heh) to older games.

Edited by Edward850

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Just now, Arctangent said:

I get the feeling you don't really understand your audience all that well, if that's what you're taking from it.

No I understand their emails and messages perfectly, thank you.

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I can't help but feel like they'd feel insulted, then, that you think they're ( in Doom terms ) people who think Brutal Doom added the ability to jump, rather than people who'd gravitate towards PrBoom before anything else.

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10 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

It's kinda hard to imagine what kind of casual player would really care so much about those things, given that sticklers for accuracy are almost always those in a more hardcore circle ( i.e. speedrunners, people with heavy nostalgia, super retro gamers, etc. ).

I feel that if someone is going to create a video like this and elaborate on how they accomplished it, it would be good to at least do some research beforehand. I mean you do have a point that the audience that this video is meant for are not going to be sticklers for accuracy, but If the creator were to mention something like void gliding it would have made this video more credible.

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As neat as that would be, it ... doesn't really have a place in that video. The whole discussion about noclip and such was over the fact that you can't go above or below the vertical limits of a sector in-game, meaning the only way you can do a whole big zoom-out on a game map is through a map editor.

 

Boundary Break isn't really about the way to break the boundaries ( almost always it's just noclip-style cheats or camera manipulation, not through glitches or such ) but what lies beyond the boundaries when you break them, whatever they may be.

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36 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

I can't help but feel like they'd feel insulted, then, that you think they're ( in Doom terms ) people who think Brutal Doom added the ability to jump, rather than people who'd gravitate towards PrBoom before anything else.

I'm not sure how that's relevant, I'm suggesting quite the opposite, if anything, but hardly even that because it's more of a case of people don't want "Brutal Doom" to start with. They want the game as it always was, but with high resolution and better framerate.

Edited by Edward850

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Let's be little forgiving here on one part, he can't contact the developers as they all disbanded, and if he did contact one of them, email isn't the most viable choice since each person at Id who worked on doom are now super popular people, meaning it would be not likely he would be noticed since his email would be burred under the multitude of other fan/business/offical emails.

 

Though if he asked around on the forums of any doom website, he would get lots of technical information to show off.

 

But I guess the main reason why this episode of Boundary Break is disappointing is because Doom doesn't have a whole lot to show off out of bounds, yea Romero's head on a pike is hilarious and the rooms that only serve to activate the monsters via a small pipe are interesting, but that's about it. I can see why even for a mini-episode more than a quarter of the video is filler and explanation on how he does it.

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6 minutes ago, Eric the Sandvich said:

But I guess the main reason why this episode of Boundary Break is disappointing is because Doom doesn't have a whole lot to show off out of bounds, yea Romero's head on a pike is hilarious and the rooms that only serve to activate the monsters via a small pipe are interesting, but that's about it.

Well, guess that the majority of us, Doom players, knew that for a long time ago. So, this episode is just redundant...simple as that.

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1 minute ago, leodoom85 said:

Well, guess that the majority of us, Doom players, knew that for a long time ago. So, this episode is just redundant.

Yea, I went into this episode thinking that I would know most but I would learn at least 1 thing that I didn't know about Doom.

 

Although I guess after watching his Portal 2 and Half-Life 2 video I should have expected some annoyance to come out of me.

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18 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

You missed the 're I edited in after I realized I missed it, I think.

I did. Statement still stands, though.

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Well, let's break it down for you, then.

 

I'm saying that to the people who have casual interest in Doom, aka Brutal Doomers, including Brutal Doomers that think Brutal Doom coded in the ability to jump, as well as almost certainly the majority of people who use ZDoom ports who're aware of things besides Brutal Doomers and the majority of people who use Doomsday, being able to go under lost souls without being blocked by something a million yards above you and taking damage is something far more preferable than the opposite. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that nearly all of them think the that opposite would be dumb.

 

Then you come up here and say that your experience with your job's consumers - the people who desire enhanced, yet as accurate as possible ports of old, abandoned games - gives you reason to believe that, no, people with casual interest in such a game would want to bump into a flaming skull that should by all right have escape the planet's atmosphere while they're walking around on the ground.

 

Which means to you, the people who have interest in what you bring out are the exact same crowd as the people who think Brutal Doom implemented jumping.

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