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Payload4367

(Update/Fix) Dark Encounters 32 map MegaWad

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I just downloaded this. It looks fun and well-made.

 

I just got back into Doom and want to run through the id campaigns first, but I was stuck with which WAD to play afterwards and you just answered that for me. I'm looking forward to it.

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Not very far, but I'm loving it so far. Level design has a very Quake feel to it. Some nice traps and ambushes. The music is excellent as well along with the ambient sounds.

Plays awesome with D4T too.

Edited by Brewtal_Legend

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I keep getting a crash when I run through the door on MAP03, the one that raises when you hit the switch through the hallway with the shotgunners, imps, and zombies. I'm using the latest GZDoom and the WAD downloaded from the idgames link.  

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I used gzdoom 3.1 when I played and had no issues.  Can you check that version to see if the problem persists?

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2 minutes ago, paymentplan said:

Yeah I guess it's fine on 3.1.0. Thanks.

 

That's interesting. Do your two versions of GZDoom have the same settings (compatibility, etc)?

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1 hour ago, OldManRage said:

 

That's interesting. Do your two versions of GZDoom have the same settings (compatibility, etc)?

Completely the same, as far as I can tell!

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Been playing my way through this in my occasional Doom-playing time lately.  Just hit Map31 (which was neither too obvious nor too stupidly hidden-- kudos) so I thought I'd give some of my feedback.

 

This mapset makes me think of nothing so much as a spiritual successor to TNT: Evilution, in both its gifts and its sins.  Like TNT, it has sprawling and imaginative levels, with creative use of mostly-classic textures and variants to create a sense of Doomy verisimilitude.  One gets the sense that these are structures with purpose, that reflect some sort of real-world nature that does or could exist, but always with that quintessentially Doom level of abstraction; we never get into either photorealism or Tormentor-esque detail (which, for the record, I don't mind in its own right, but would be out of place here).  The potential of (G)ZDoom is well used to add some visual and structural interest while, again, not breaking spirit with the 20th-century originals.  In particular I like the place descriptors that flash across the HUD at the beginning of many of the levels, they give a sense of place and narrative but without interrupting the flow like a cutscene would.

 

But I mentioned sins as well, and here's the sin: the monstercount in these maps is way too high for me, and much worse, deployed in a fashion that makes it feel like a tedious slog to get through.  I recall a comment I read two decades ago in the textfile for a collection of Final Doom grandmaster demos, where one player complained that TNT was dragged down by its monster balance, and in particularly the fact that so much of that balance was concentrated in weak (yet deadly if ignored) monsters that were ultimately not as interested to fight.  I specifically remember how they put it: "You want to go faster, but you can't."  I empathize with that here, where I feel like if I don't painstakingly plod through the levels and check every nook and cranny (and constantly check behind myself for new nooks and crannies randomly opening), I'll end up getting punished when some little fucker like an imp or a Lost Soul or a zombieman that I overlooked plinks away more of my precious health... and then another one does the same thing twenty seconds later... and so on and so forth. 

 

To be sure, it's fine to spring traps and unexpected threats on the player in Doom PWADs-- who would argue otherwise?  But this implementation, and the painstaking corridor-clearing gameplay it seems to require, don't feel fun.  It's like going for a hike and constantly getting tiny rocks in your shoe that you can't get out.  Maybe the author enjoys it, but I don't.  I love the design of these maps, but there have been a few maps so far where I've just pulled down the console and typed "kill monsters" at some point near the beginning because I just can't be arsed to spend five minutes holding the trigger down on my chaingun in the opening area alone.

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2 hours ago, Rowsol said:

Turn down the difficulty.

 

I'm already playing on HNTR.  The issue isn't constantly dying or other stereotypical hallmarks of excessive difficulty, so much as it is tedium and feeling like I'm being punished for not playing in a corner-hugging fasion.

 

edit: The big tower climb in MAP31 (which I just finished) stands out as a big fight that is difficult in an interesting way, at least in concept.  Even then it had a few too many chaff enemies for me, but figuring out how to make my way to the top while dodging cyber and revenant rockets was fun.

Edited by jerrysheppy

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18 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

Been playing my way through this in my occasional Doom-playing time lately.  Just hit Map31 (which was neither too obvious nor too stupidly hidden-- kudos) so I thought I'd give some of my feedback.

Thanks for taking the time to play and comment. In many ways I agree with your feedback and top on my list for my next project has been...lower monster count:) I knew this wad was not going to be for everyone (which one is?). I really do appreciate your feedback as I am always looking to improve.

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On 12/2/2017 at 8:51 AM, Payload4367 said:

Thanks for taking the time to play and comment. In many ways I agree with your feedback and top on my list for my next project has been...lower monster count:) I knew this wad was not going to be for everyone (which one is?). I really do appreciate your feedback as I am always looking to improve.

Thank you!  I was half worried that I'd been a bit too harsh with my comments.  I don't want to sound like I'm not enjoying this wad overall, because I totally am (I wouldn't keep going if I wasn't).

 

I just finished MAP23, so it's a good time to make another post.  The three proper Hell maps so far (21-23) have been the highlight of the megawad to date, and it's not just because I prefer Hell maps to basically anything else (though I do), but also because I think the design improves here.  There's a lower monstercount overall, but more importantly, the combat seems to flow more nicely, with fewer cheap ambushes and less getting pecked to death by weak monsters while I slowly sweep out the corridors of a sprawling complex.  

 

I've alluded to this before but I love how the design, texture and architecture wise, feels very vanilla/classic in the good ways.  It's like if Sandy Petersen or Tom Hall had access to the capabilities of ZDoom (slopes, 3D floors, ability to apply textures and flats anywhere, etc.) and just a smidgen more capability for self-editing, while still keeping the imaginative worldbuilding.  This has been the case throughout, but it really becomes obvious in the hell levels-- this really feels like a modern take on the classic Inferno hell, as opposed to a cc4tex or Tormentor667 hell, beautiful though those can be.  I see that MAP24 has taken us back into "realspace" for lack of a better term, but I'm hoping it won't be the last sojourn into the hades dimensions for this megawad.

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Partway through Map26 and feeling truly hardstuck for pretty much the first time.  I've cleared out and (as far as I can see) fully explored the "flesh" and "ruins" areas, but can't seem to figure out how to get out of the arrival room in the techbase area.  It seems like my next task is to get the yellow keycard which, again, I can see in the base area but can't figure out how to progress on that area.

 

A couple of additional thoughts on gameplay.  First of all, the monstercount and monster usage has been improving in the later maps (Map26 has so far been one of the best) but there are still some issues.  An example that comes to mind is MAP25.  Beautiful map, interesting routes through the map, monstercount per se not too high, but the complex interconnecting layout means that one has to be extra careful with the usage of monsters lest dealing with all of them start to feel like a chore rather than an engaging challenge.  About a third of the way through that map I vividly remember thinking, "Man, I am so over this whole cleaning-out-cacodemons thing.  Can it be done, already, so I can move on with the map?"  As this example shows, it's not necessarily the monster type or monster amount per se (though certain monsters, like hitscanners or fliers, are probably easier to misuse in ways that feel like you have to tediously mop them all up before you can safely progress to new tasks). 

 

Contrast the use of cacodemons in this map with a similar swarm of Hell Knights on the catwalks later.  While the latter was still a bit monotonous in terms of monster type, they provided a much more rewarding encounter.  They could move around a fair bit, so I did have to be careful of flanking and crossfire (which is good challenging design as far as it goes-- this is Doom after all), but they were still constrained to a given area.  Equally if not more importantly, said area was the way forward, which meant blasting those Hell Knights feel like a task at hand, part of progressing through the level, rather than annoying unrelated static coming at me while I was trying to progress through the level!  Finally, and this is more of a comparison to earlier levels, it's almost always more fun to blast through, say, 15 Hell Knights than it is to have to mop up (I'm not sure the exact math...) 60-80 Imps or zombiemen, even though the latter may be similar in terms of overall monster HP and/or theoretical incoming damage potential.

 

On the positive side of things, I want to give you props for setting up some (mostly) interesting cyberdemon scenarios, especially ones involving two Cybers at once.  So many maps fall into the trap of reducing or eliminating the use of Cyberdemons on the lower difficulty levels, which has always struck me as exactly backwards since a well-used Cyberdemon is an excellent way of making gameplay feel intense while actually not making things ludicrously complex.  Of course, one also wants to avoid creating a perverse incentive to find someplace where the Cyber can't hit you and plink away at him from safety, rather than dueling him in the (relative) open.  You mostly avoid this pretty well, I think.  There are a few places where you put Cyberdemons in weird crannies or create terrain that's too hard for them to navigate; Map24's pair is an example of this.  Overall, when it comes to Cyberdemon usage, I'd give you an A+ for effort and a B+ for execution.

 

 

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Excellent detail and advice in your comments jerrysheppy. I might have to call on you to do some playtesting for the next wad. I got four maps already.

7 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

I can see in the base area but can't figure out how to progress on that area.

there is a green switch on the far wall...shoot that through the bars. And then...be careful ;)

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Still working on my latest project (Dark Universe), but until then, enjoy a little romp through my 32 map MegaWad, Dark Encounters, released last year.

Link in OP also.

Screenshot_Doom_20171007_225534.png

Screenshot_Doom_20171010_212450.png

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I'm rarely play GZDoom wads, but this wad will be an like exception. It is now on my "to play" list.

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Hey Payload, First of all, congratulations on your Dark Universe Cacoward!! Very well deserved. :)

 

How in the hell did Dark Encounters NOT receive a Cacoward? Or even an honorable mention? I seriously thought if there would be *one* Wad that was a 'sure thing', it would've been this one. I played every WAD in the top ten, and I can assure you, DE was much better than over half of the garbage listed there. *shakes my head*

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@dylux I think *usually* the same author only gets one project of (or primarily of) theirs awarded in a given year, with only rare exceptions like both of skillsaw's wads in 2011 or Ribbiks' in 2013 (possibly none since then). To give as many authors a chance as possible. And DU Pt 1 is his opus to date. DE was also an October 2017 wad I think though that's close to the 'grace period'.

Edited by FrancisT18

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14 hours ago, Payload4367 said:

Thank you @dylux . I'm always just happy that people play and enjoy my work. Truly a labor of love.

 

True modesty right there, folks. Much respect. 

:)

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Decided this weekend to fix some bugs (some game-breaking, some just annoying) on Dark Encounters. Also added all
 difficulty settings so you can gun through the maps without some of the grind that is present in HMP and UV. Focused a lot on the
 co-op for Zandronum. See more details in OP.

  Thanks to all that played and reported bugs and provided other feedback. Sorry it took so long. If there is anything else
 that should be fixed, please feel free to let me know.

 

 All links have been updated in OP.

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1 hour ago, Payload4367 said:

Decided this weekend to fix some bugs (some game-breaking, some just annoying) on Dark Encounters.

 

Your timing is perfect - well, in my universe, anyway. I was about to replay Dark Encounters as soon as I'm finished with the lame one I'm currently playing (and about to abandon LOL!)

 

I didn't catch anything major as far as bugs were concerned except for the fact Dark Encounters didn't win or even runner up a Cocaward!

Edited by dylux

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Haha. That's great. Thanks. One could play through the entire wad and avoid any issues, but some lines, if crossed repeatedly, would trigger scripts again and again and...……. :P

 

Most of the update was to get it working 100% with co-op and Zandronum.

Also adding the easier dif. settings.

 

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Played with Brutal doom rc07 was one of the best megawads I've played. The design of the levels is complex and enormous. The enemies are really put to perfection, traps, where death is assured. Good work. I'm waiting for Paul to follow up on this megawad!

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Thank you very much. A follow-up would be down the road a ways. It was a massive undertaking and a bit draining (although fun). Once I finish putting out a few more smaller map sets, I may return to a megawad project. Thanks again!

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